WOW Cataclysm to top black ops 4.7 million 24 hour sales?

Reach nearly kept up with BO and BO launched on 4 systems! All the losers living in their parents basements are drooling over their preorder receipts right now for thisBodyElite

So ... let me get this straight. You're a loser that lives in your parent's basement if you play WoW, but if you play Halo:Reach you're some sort of jet-setting international playboy. Did I get that right?

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]To the ground baby -Blizzard does not respond with blues in class forums. They have not done this in a long time. Try the DPS forums and Hunters are fine at 85 in pvp. I know because my wrathful gladiator hunter friend has stopped playing on live and now only plays on Beta. Truth_Hurts_U

Hunters are fine? :lol:

Take a look at this. From the legendary hunter himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnc8hEHVvBo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_blQ_zL5WM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8SozY89CwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50WvDcvMy-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZWG22x6ufU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1lZnYLNUUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXQ1FrZYCdo

Even the devs don't play hunters... Take a look at this PVP vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HDbSLYDLy4

oh i forgot that PvP is balanced around 1v1 :lol:

OH wait it isn't :| . Blizzard has stated this countless times....

And I knew blizzard would be bad their game. Just like in SC2 (except david kim)

Do you really expect them to do any good against top ranked players when Blizzard themselves are not above average players?.

I think it can, the fanbase for that game is insane.

[QUOTE="Truth_Hurts_U"]

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"] This is true for raiding. PvP, however, Guild Wars beats. Especially in mechanics....and it's because of the balance.Brownesque

Yeah you can say that again... Cata brings even more imbalances to PVP. Pratically every class has a heal now and on top of it all there is way more CC.

Then you have the smarts of GC... Who doesn't let people who have honor buy basic PVP weapons. They force you into PVE which people like me don't want to be a part of.

Warth was all about the PVE gear for PVP. It was never balanced PVP gear VS PVE.

And for what that man was saying, I think he was saying PvE players could get the last season's PvP gear, but PvPers only get the bottom of the food chain in PvE gear for honor points. I don't believe you can get ToC gear with PvP stuff. I'm not sure, I haven't played in awhile.

Complexity of the encounters??? On the low level content??? No, they made it easier. Raiding is just as hard as it was during TBC except casual players can also get epics now. That's not really a problem. Exactly.The linearity of the dungeons in WoTLK, are. And how do you know I'm not part of Blood Legion or Ensidia?! Are you? Prove it then. O_O

Lethalhazard

They made it easier according to what? Back up your claims.

BTW try heroic mode for leet winz and epic gearz you can use to taunt all the nubs.

I want you to prove you even have a WoW account, let alone that you've done anything with it. If you're in an epic guild that tackles top tier content, show me. More than likely you aren't even capable of downing 10H LK, which, if you are, again, show me. If you have, I've got another fun task for you. Do 10H LK with 8 people and turn off Hellscream's Warsong. There's no lack of challenge in Wrath, you're making this all up. Unless you've done everything I've described, you have no room to sit here and say Wrath's too easy, because there's plenty of stuff for you to do that would crack your arrogant shell open like a pinata. If epic gear doesn't matter any more, go record a Youtube video of a LK down without Hellscream's Warsong, it will get you way more prestige than nagging about casuals getting epics in forums.

it is a decent game but i really don't see why these games are so popular . Why do all the causal noobs want this game?

Your post is wrong on so many levels. I'm not sure you got anything correct.Brownesque

You must never PVP then... Because people use nothing but the best PVE gear. BGers like me are left in the dust when it came to item level. You had to arena to get anything equal to PVE gear level wise.

I don't know about you but 2 level higher gear is better then 2 level lower gear.

I remember when rogues got the daggers from naxx and where killing people in 2-3 shots. They had to buff resilience to compensate for the imbalance of PVE gear against PVP gears. You obviously don't remember any of that.

CC has increased. because alot of CC is now baseline. You not longer need to spec into it like you used to. HENCE why there is more CC. Or did you miss that too?

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"]

Complexity of the encounters??? On the low level content??? No, they made it easier. Raiding is just as hard as it was during TBC except casual players can also get epics now. That's not really a problem. Exactly.The linearity of the dungeons in WoTLK, are. And how do you know I'm not part of Blood Legion or Ensidia?! Are you? Prove it then. O_O

Brownesque

They made it easier according to what? Back up your claims.

BTW try heroic mode for leet winz and epic gearz you can use to taunt all the nubs.

I want you to prove you even have a WoW account, let alone that you've done anything with it. If you're in an epic guild that tackles top tier content, show me. More than likely you aren't even capable of downing 10H LK, which, if you are, again, show me. If you have, I've got another fun task for you. Do 10H LK with 8 people and turn off Hellscream's Warsong. There's no lack of challenge in Wrath, you're making this all up. Unless you've done everything I've described, you have no room to sit here and say Wrath's too easy, because there's plenty of stuff for you to do that would crack your arrogant shell open like a pinata. If epic gear doesn't matter any more, go record a Youtube video of a LK down without Hellscream's Warsong, it will get you way more prestige than nagging about casuals getting epics in forums.

[QUOTE="Brownesque"] Your post is wrong on so many levels. I'm not sure you got anything correct.Truth_Hurts_U

You must never PVP then... Because people use nothing but the best PVE gear. BGers like me are left in the dust when it came to item level. You had to arena to get anything equal to PVE gear level wise.

I don't know about you but 2 level higher gear is better then 2 level lower gear.

I remember when rogues got the daggers from naxx and where killing people in 2-3 shots. They had to buff resilience to compensate for the imbalance of PVE gear against PVP gears. You obviously don't remember any of that.

CC has increased. because alot of CC is now baseline. You not longer need to spec into it like you used to. HENCE why there is more CC. Or did you miss that too?

oh i forgot that PvP is balanced around 1v1 :lol:

OH wait it isn't :| . Blizzard has stated this countless times....

And I knew blizzard would be bad their game. Just like in SC2 (except david kim)

Do you really expect them to do any good against top ranked players when Blizzard themselves are not above average players?.

Led_poison

Duels show how imbalanced this game is. I don't know about you but PVP isn't always group on group battles.

I don't care what people say about duels. It's a legit test of ones skill and class abilities. Which gives you a clear idea of how things will play out in a battle situation.

Go ready the hunter forums and see for yourself. Alot of complaining about us being free HK's now.

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]

oh i forgot that PvP is balanced around 1v1 :lol:

OH wait it isn't :| . Blizzard has stated this countless times....

And I knew blizzard would be bad their game. Just like in SC2 (except david kim)

Do you really expect them to do any good against top ranked players when Blizzard themselves are not above average players?.

Truth_Hurts_U

Duels show how imbalanced this game is. I don't know about you but PVP isn't always group on group battles.

I don't care what people say about duels. It's a legit test of ones skill and class abilities. Which gives you a clear idea of how things will play out in a battle situation.

Go ready the hunter forums and see for yourself. Alot of complaining about us being free HK's now.

Haha, when I quit hunters were pwning pretty hard....it was when explosive shot did a ridiculous amount of damage.Lethalhazard

:D

Iused to run around WG with survival spec when it was OP. It was so fun to gank everyone except for shield people. I would fly all the node locations and kill anyone that was farming them.

Good times!

You want me to prove I have a WoW account? How? I don't even play anymore, you want an armory link? All the characters are mentioned on the armory, but you can't inspect my items because it'll say I've been inactive too long. And by easy, I mean they made the dungeons less linear. There are fewer bosses. Wailing Caverns for example, has had its size reduced massively so you just run through a corridor to the bosses. It's nothing dynamic like it used to be, with different directions and such...because n00bs complained. I think the pinnacle of dynamic dungeon design was with stratholme, which had tons of bosses and routes to go about. They haven't done that since TBC, because everything has been watered down and given a touch of linearity to it. Which I don't think works in an MMO very well...and it's less exciting having one hall to run down. Lethalhazard

Give me an armory link and the Youtube videos you made of you downing H10 LK with no hellscream's warsong buff.

So linear! :cry:

And making up challenge isn't fun. Excuses, excuses. Being leet isn't all fun and games. It's about pwning noobs and rubbing the dirt in their face! To even get these items you should be forcibily challened so that fewer players have the best items. Keyboard turners are getting HM loot apparently when I was quitting, so that's all nice and cuddly.

lethalhazard

:cry::cry: I should be the only one wearing purple stuff!

It's a prestige issue? What a joke. If it's a prestige issue, show everyone your leet Youtube docs of your guild getting world first Halion kills and H10 LK kills with no hellscream's warsong buff.

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"] You want me to prove I have a WoW account? How? I don't even play anymore, you want an armory link? All the characters are mentioned on the armory, but you can't inspect my items because it'll say I've been inactive too long. And by easy, I mean they made the dungeons less linear. There are fewer bosses. Wailing Caverns for example, has had its size reduced massively so you just run through a corridor to the bosses. It's nothing dynamic like it used to be, with different directions and such...because n00bs complained. I think the pinnacle of dynamic dungeon design was with stratholme, which had tons of bosses and routes to go about. They haven't done that since TBC, because everything has been watered down and given a touch of linearity to it. Which I don't think works in an MMO very well...and it's less exciting having one hall to run down. Brownesque

Give me an armory link and the Youtube videos you made of you downing H10 LK with no hellscream's warsong buff.

So linear! :cry:

And making up challenge isn't fun. Excuses, excuses. Being leet isn't all fun and games. It's about pwning noobs and rubbing the dirt in their face! To even get these items you should be forcibily challened so that fewer players have the best items. Keyboard turners are getting HM loot apparently when I was quitting, so that's all nice and cuddly.

lethalhazard

:cry::cry: I should be the only one wearing purple stuff!

It's a prestige issue? What a joke. If it's a prestige issue, show everyone your leet Youtube docs of your guild getting world first Halion kills and H10 LK kills with no hellscream's warsong buff.

The last character I played was earlier this year, Deadlyqt. His armory isn't showing up anymore...thought it might. I only subbed for a couple of months during WoTLK until I decided to quit because of how bad it was. And my raiding buddy says things haven't been any better :(. Not that I care for raiding too much.

lololcasualizinglinearity

[QUOTE="babybinky"]its than not then. y does everybody get those mixed up? it drives me nuts... and wow, ppl still play world of warcraft? i wonder how many of those 12 million subscribers still play on a daily basis? i doubt 5 million so im going to say NO.lundy86_4

WoW has 12 million active subscribers.

Yeah I believe it. I played Diablo II (with some breaks) quite often throughout the past 10 years and just recently feel like I was "finished" with the game. And Diablo isnt even an MMO. Plus WoW has been given more expansions and such. I think it will come close in sales, but topping it may be hard to do. Damn impressive though if you ask me. Diablo III FTW! :P

Wait really? You link Naxxramas, a vanilla WoW instance they barely changed up, when I was talking about 5-mans being linear??? CMON. And yes prestige is an issue for me in PvP. It's annoying when so many n00000bs are getting the best gear from PvE because it's easier, and all PvP items aren't the best for PvP. You don't see PvErs becoming better with certain PvP items................and PvE still proliferates in PvP as the best items. I'm talking neckpieces, a couple rings, and some trinkets.

Lethalhazard

So linear :cry:

So how do you win in PvP using PvE items? You think crit rating is superior to resilience when resilience has 3 tiered reduction to critical strike rating? Damage reduction, crit chance reduction, and crit damage reduction....sounds like crit's a hot ticket. Okay, no? Well, crit's on 90% of all DPS/healer gear, so fudge in my pants there. What alternatives? Well, I can gem haste and spell pen, but then the crit's still bunk and he's got plenty of damage reduction I can't counter. I'm sure you'll dominate all the BGs in your PvE gear like I did when I was taking 14k arcane blast crits at 4.01. Most PvE gear had really poor itemization for BGs, to be frank. I've heard some people managed the DPS output to bring out large nukes and burn ppl in arenas through tier 10 gear, but I have yet to see it.If prestige is an issue for you in PvP try increasing your BG and Arena rank, both of which are becoming rated in Cata. Or you could QQ about purples some moar.

The last character I played was earlier this year, Deadlyqt. His armory isn't showing up anymore...thought it might. I only subbed for a couple of months during WoTLK until I decided to quit because of how bad it was. And my raiding buddy says things haven't been any better :(. Not that I care for raiding too much.

Lethalhazard

Of course you did, dear. So you didn't even play the game? Did you play Ulduar, which was received by many vet WoW players as a resurgence in old-school difficulty? Did you down H10 LK? Then stop making broad, vague generalizations with no support. You didn't even play Wrath, so stop complaining about it.

BTW, which Deadlyqt? There are about a half dozen showing up on armory, half of which are female blood elves :lol:

That name is riotous.

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]

oh i forgot that PvP is balanced around 1v1 :lol:

OH wait it isn't :| . Blizzard has stated this countless times....

And I knew blizzard would be bad their game. Just like in SC2 (except david kim)

Do you really expect them to do any good against top ranked players when Blizzard themselves are not above average players?.

Truth_Hurts_U

Duels show how imbalanced this game is. I don't know about you but PVP isn't always group on group battles.

I don't care what people say about duels. It's a legit test of ones skill and class abilities. Which gives you a clear idea of how things will play out in a battle situation.

Go ready the hunter forums and see for yourself. Alot of complaining about us being free HK's now.

Pvp is always in a group battles. In a battleground you always are with 9 or more allies. In arena you always with 1 or more allies. Even if your talking about getting ganked while your doing dailes. Thats not pvp. You are not expecting it. While being a BG you are.

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"]Wait really? You link Naxxramas, a vanilla WoW instance they barely changed up, when I was talking about 5-mans being linear??? CMON. And yes prestige is an issue for me in PvP. It's annoying when so many n00000bs are getting the best gear from PvE because it's easier, and all PvP items aren't the best for PvP. You don't see PvErs becoming better with certain PvP items................and PvE still proliferates in PvP as the best items. I'm talking neckpieces, a couple rings, and some trinkets.

Brownesque

So linear :cry:

So how do you win in PvP using PvE items? You think crit rating is superior to resilience when resilience has 3 tiered reduction to critical strike rating? Damage reduction, crit chance reduction, and crit damage reduction....sounds like crit's a hot ticket. Okay, no? Well, crit's on 90% of all DPS/healer gear, so fudge in my pants there. What alternatives? Well, I can gem haste and spell pen, but then the crit's still bunk and he's got plenty of damage reduction I can't counter. I'm sure you'll dominate all the BGs in your PvE gear like I did when I was taking 14k arcane blast crits at 4.01. Most PvE gear had really poor itemization for BGs, to be frank. I've heard some people managed the DPS output to bring out large nukes and burn ppl in arenas through tier 10 gear, but I have yet to see it.If prestige is an issue for you in PvP try increasing your BG and Arena rank, both of which are becoming rated in Cata. Or you could QQ about purples some moar.

The last character I played was earlier this year, Deadlyqt. His armory isn't showing up anymore...thought it might. I only subbed for a couple of months during WoTLK until I decided to quit because of how bad it was. And my raiding buddy says things haven't been any better :(. Not that I care for raiding too much.

Lethalhazard

Of course you did, dear. So you didn't even play the game? Did you play Ulduar, which was received by many vet WoW players as a resurgence in old-school difficulty? Did you down H10 LK? Then stop making broad, vague generalizations with no support. You didn't even play Wrath, so stop complaining about it.

BTW, which Deadlyqt? There are about a half dozen showing up on armory, half of which are female blood elves :lol:

That name is riotous.

Again resorting to personal insults because you're part of a losing argument trying to convince me that the game isn't watered down in pvp and 5-man dungeons + catered to casuals. When I played that's pretty much all I did, except when I was invited to raids because I'm so good.

Pvp is always in a group battles. In a battleground you always are with 9 or more allies. In arena you always with 1 or more allies. Even if your talking about getting ganked while your doing dailes. Thats not pvp. You are not expecting it. While being a BG you are.

Led_poison

PVP isn't 10 main raids running around a battlefield in a zerg.

PVP in BG's are people who go off into small groups (usally 3 or less) trying to do objectives. Some people scout... Others just follow where the most people go.

PVP is a mixed bag... Now when they have rated BGs then you can guess groups of 5+ will be running around.

There is no coherence in standard pug BG's. It's every man for himself alot of times. People are mainly out for HK's thats why they cap something then run off...

Theres two kinds of PVP... Organized and unorganized. Weather you jump people farming or not. Killing another player is PVP... Hence Player Vs Player acronym PVP.

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"] You want me to prove I have a WoW account? How? I don't even play anymore, you want an armory link? All the characters are mentioned on the armory, but you can't inspect my items because it'll say I've been inactive too long. And by easy, I mean they made the dungeons less linear. There are fewer bosses. Wailing Caverns for example, has had its size reduced massively so you just run through a corridor to the bosses. It's nothing dynamic like it used to be, with different directions and such...because n00bs complained. I think the pinnacle of dynamic dungeon design was with stratholme, which had tons of bosses and routes to go about. They haven't done that since TBC, because everything has been watered down and given a touch of linearity to it. Which I don't think works in an MMO very well...and it's less exciting having one hall to run down. Lethalhazard

Give me an armory link and the Youtube videos you made of you downing H10 LK with no hellscream's warsong buff.

So linear! :cry:

And making up challenge isn't fun. Excuses, excuses. Being leet isn't all fun and games. It's about pwning noobs and rubbing the dirt in their face! To even get these items you should be forcibily challened so that fewer players have the best items. Keyboard turners are getting HM loot apparently when I was quitting, so that's all nice and cuddly.

lethalhazard

:cry::cry: I should be the only one wearing purple stuff!

It's a prestige issue? What a joke. If it's a prestige issue, show everyone your leet Youtube docs of your guild getting world first Halion kills and H10 LK kills with no hellscream's warsong buff.

The last character I played was earlier this year, Deadlyqt. His armory isn't showing up anymore...thought it might. I only subbed for a couple of months during WoTLK until I decided to quit because of how bad it was. And my raiding buddy says things haven't been any better :(. Not that I care for raiding too much.

lololcasualizinglinearity

Naxxramas, arguably the hardest raid they ever created (That raid was ball-breakingly hard) and barely anyone saw. It's perfectly fine they recycled it, though it isn't nearly as difficult as it once was. This isn't Vanilla, you don't get the best gear from PvE. You get PvP gear or you die. If you can't kill a PvE geared person, well then you're just bad at PvP. The only items I see in PvP that are obtained through PvE are trinkets, simply because the procs are better. The only time PvP was hard was in Vanilla. You didn't get the best gear by rolling FOTM ****s, you got that through dedication and lots of lost sleep, no matter what **** you were. Now you just roll a damn druid and mage/lock/warrior/rogue and rip people to shreds while the healer runs away and HoTs.

I find PvP more imbalanced than ever. Vanilla was a mess but I still argue that was the best time ever for PvP. Arena is a joke and only caters to FOTM combos. Raiding is not easier nor harder than it was in Vanilla and TBC. It's only changed. The only bad thing that happened was that all trash turned into AoE packs every, damn, pull.

5 mans aren't something that's meant to be focused on. It's a stepping stone/helper to get gears for raids. No one wants to spend hours in just one dungeon (Heroic Shattered Halls SUCKED.) Turn 80, get heroic gear and emblems/points, go raid or PvP. 5 mans in Cataclysm are better designed than Wrath ones by far from videos I've watched.

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"]

[QUOTE="Brownesque"]

Give me an armory link and the Youtube videos you made of you downing H10 LK with no hellscream's warsong buff.

So linear! :cry:

[quote="lethalhazard"]

And making up challenge isn't fun. Excuses, excuses. Being leet isn't all fun and games. It's about pwning noobs and rubbing the dirt in their face! To even get these items you should be forcibily challened so that fewer players have the best items. Keyboard turners are getting HM loot apparently when I was quitting, so that's all nice and cuddly.

ChubbyGuy40

:cry::cry: I should be the only one wearing purple stuff!

It's a prestige issue? What a joke. If it's a prestige issue, show everyone your leet Youtube docs of your guild getting world first Halion kills and H10 LK kills with no hellscream's warsong buff.

The last character I played was earlier this year, Deadlyqt. His armory isn't showing up anymore...thought it might. I only subbed for a couple of months during WoTLK until I decided to quit because of how bad it was. And my raiding buddy says things haven't been any better :(. Not that I care for raiding too much.

lololcasualizinglinearity

Naxxramas, arguably the hardest raid they ever created (That raid was ball-breakingly hard) and barely anyone saw. It's perfectly fine they recycled it, though it isn't nearly as difficult as it once was. This isn't Vanilla, you don't get the best gear from PvE. You get PvP gear or you die. If you can't kill a PvE geared person, well then you're just bad at PvP. The only items I see in PvP that are obtained through PvE are trinkets, simply because the procs are better. The only time PvP was hard was in Vanilla. You didn't get the best gear by rolling FOTM ****s, you got that through dedication and lots of lost sleep, no matter what **** you were. Now you just roll a damn druid and mage/lock/warrior/rogue and rip people to shreds while the healer runs away and HoTs.

I find PvP more imbalanced than ever. Vanilla was a mess but I still argue that was the best time ever for PvP. Arena is a joke and only caters to FOTM combos. Raiding is not easier nor harder than it was in Vanilla and TBC. It's only changed. The only bad thing that happened was that all trash turned into AoE packs every, damn, pull.

5 mans aren't something that's meant to be focused on. It's a stepping stone/helper to get gears for raids. No one wants to spend hours in just one dungeon (Heroic Shattered Halls SUCKED.) Turn 80, get heroic gear and emblems/points, go raid or PvP. 5 mans in Cataclysm are better designed than Wrath ones by far from videos I've watched.

Again, I'm talking about 5-mans. Not raids. Quit trying to post material I'm not talking about because you're a WoW fanboy and refuse to admit the glaring problems the casualized game has. Weah, getting personal because you're losing an argument. WEAH Yes, PvE off-pieces are superior to the PvP ones. If you actually PvP'd you might know :O I don't even need to explain that...ressilience isn't the best stat once you've maxed on it with a few pieces (and dps ****s don't need max ressilience, AP/SP is more important). And when I quit, Icecrown had been out. So yes, I did play through Ulduar (and the laughable driving section in the beginning up to to the best designed boss in the entire game, Yogg'Saron) Then the weak ToGC came out, which was hilarious since they still managed to mostly reuse models when the entire design of the instance consisted of one tiny arena. Then came Icecrown, which was decently designed, up until the disappointing ending of Arthas. The Deadlyqt of Arathor/Arena tournament durrrrp

Lethalhazard

And you're *****ing that once you've "maxed" resil it's no longer necessary to stack. Obv. So that means getting the entire arena set plus the 264 resil trink, right? Sorry, but wearing the entire arena PvP set with a few pieces of PvE jewelry doesn't count as PvE>PvP.

So? You posted a 5 man because you arbitrarily decided 5 mans are the only ones that count, and then picked one of the smallest and easily most basic 5 mans in the entire expansion pack.

Would you prefer The Nexus?

Or Ahn'Kahet?

Maybe the problem is you enjoy getting lost too much, is that it? Without some crazy, looping, arbitrary floorplans that lead you down silly corridors with no direction, you can't play it?

Anyway, where's your proof of defeating the most challenging encounters in the game on heroic mode? If you haven't done that and you're looking for challenge, like I said, try that. If you're looking for prestige, do that and then record it and upload it to Youtube. If you're spending more time in 5 mans than in raid instances that might explain the lack of challenge you're perceiving, seeing as most of the current game is emphasizing end-game content.

I like 5 mans more than raids, though. They're just more enjoyable, which is why I wish they could make the difficulty equivilent to raids. I like focus on an individual, rather than a large group....and 5-mans cater to that. And they're easier to get a group going. So I liked hours spent in Heroic SH ^^ lolLethalhazard

Prefering to focus on one player instead of many kinda defeats the purpose of "MMO."

But the thing is, PvE is favored over PvP. The content part is obvious, but the items too. If the game was balanced for both, I could gain top level PvE items for PvPing, and PvE players would have to high end PvP for the top gear to add to their PvE set. That's if Blizzard REALLY wants to encourage both sides rather than just focus on PvE (which is what they do).

And yes, I do like spending hours lost inside one 5-man. I hope Cataclysm adds something like Strat where there'd be two entrances and it could take hours to finish if everything is done....and there was even a speed run (baron thing)! Imagine if that was for something more than achievement nowadays, and actually provided loot/a good quest. I think 5-mans should be emphasized more and they should also add a step above 'heroic' level so that it remains constantly updated with each new raid put out.

for somebody that 'dosnt play' you sure are dead set on defending it.dolph1073

[QUOTE="dolph1073"]for somebody that 'dosnt play' you sure are dead set on defending it.Lethalhazard

Here's my modest Warrior tank, which was my only toon

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nazgrel&cn=Dokarm

Bad server, no arena record, last recorded activity was October 22nd, which is when I unsubscribed, 3 days prior to downing 10 man Lich King (the whole reason I bought WoW).

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-feed.xml?r=Nazgrel&cn=Dokarm

Nope, I certainly didn't play much. I was no where near a hardcore player. I downed the LK and left.

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"][QUOTE="dolph1073"] Your gear isnt bad at all...not top end hardcore, but not n00b either.[QUOTE="Brownesque"]

[QUOTE="Lethalhazard"][QUOTE="dolph1073"]for somebody that 'dosnt play' you sure are dead set on defending it.Brownesque

Here's my modest Warrior tank, which was my only toon

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Nazgrel&cn=Dokarm

Bad server, no arena record, last recorded activity was October 22nd, which is when I unsubscribed, 3 days prior to downing 10 man Lich King (the whole reason I bought WoW).

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-feed.xml?r=Nazgrel&cn=Dokarm

Nope, I certainly didn't play much. I was no where near a hardcore player. I downed the LK and left.

clearly you were casual if you only played for a few months and downd the LK :roll:dolph1073

[QUOTE="dolph1073"]clearly you were casual if you only played for a few months and downd the LK :roll:Brownesque

I can get you everywhere.... WoW started off pretty casual, each expansions made it more casual. Game is pretty worthless these days.

No idea what the argument is, but the game is rather worthless at this point. Each expansion seemed to offer a crutch for people not good at the game, to catch up to people that are good at the game.

EDIT: and cataclysm will not outsell blackops in the first 24, expansions are heavily staggered... the 12 million announcement came when WotLK was released in asia, many months ofter being released in other countries.

[QUOTE="Brownesque"][QUOTE="dolph1073"]clearly you were casual if you only played for a few months and downd the LK :roll:markinthedark

I can get you everywhere.... WoW started off pretty casual, each expansions made it more casual. Game is pretty worthless these days.

No idea what the argument is, but the game is rather worthless at this point. Each expansion seemed to offer a crutch for people not good at the game, to catch up to people that are good at the game.

EDIT: and cataclysm will not outsell blackops in the first 24, expansions are heavily staggered... the 12 million announcement came when WotLK was released in asia, many months ofter being released in other countries.

People saying Wrath is casual are talking crap. Do the heroic modes. Heroic 25 man LK is just as hard as Muru pre nerf, C'thun and KTIm_on_a_boat

here is the thing... will all your items be completely trumped by easy to find greens once cataclysm is released? the answer is yes.... why invest thousands of hours in a game knowing full well all your progress is going to be worthless once the next expansion comes out?

At least in everquest... if you wanted to do the raids of the new expansion... you had to be fully raid geared from the old expansion. Each expansions didnt just nullify all previous progress. Its a stupid pointless system designed at courting the new casual player.

[QUOTE="Im_on_a_boat"]People saying Wrath is casual are talking crap. Do the heroic modes. Heroic 25 man LK is just as hard as Muru pre nerf, C'thun and KTmarkinthedark

here is the thing... will all your items be completely trumped by easy to find greens once cataclysm is released? the answer is yes.... why invest thousands of hours in a game knowing full well all your progress is going to be worthless once the next expansion comes out?

At least in everquest... if you wanted to do the raids of the new expansion... you had to be fully raid geared from the old expansion. Each expansions didnt just nullify all previous progress. Its a stupid pointless system designed at courting the new casual player.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Brownesque"] I never said I was casual. And I said I played the game cumulatively for less than a year. I took a hiatus after 3.1 and came back at 3.3 Naxx-geared, ran a few heroics (they made pre-raid gearing much easier in 3.3) for like a couple months, then spent the rest of the time trying to find a raid group on my server that actually had the testicles to stay in a raid longer than 3 hours. I pugged my LK kill because nobody else could get me there.Brownesque

I can get you everywhere.... WoW started off pretty casual, each expansions made it more casual. Game is pretty worthless these days.

No idea what the argument is, but the game is rather worthless at this point. Each expansion seemed to offer a crutch for people not good at the game, to catch up to people that are good at the game.

EDIT: and cataclysm will not outsell blackops in the first 24, expansions are heavily staggered... the 12 million announcement came when WotLK was released in asia, many months ofter being released in other countries.

I dont know what any of that crap means to be honest. I was all pvp in WoW... raiding was a joke after playing everquest. The easiest raid encounter in everquest made the most difficult raid encounter in vanilla wow look like a fisher price game. The fact that every expansion only made it easier to get good gear is just icing on the cake of how crappy the game is.

People saying Wrath is casual are talking crap. Do the heroic modes. Heroic 25 man LK is just as hard as Muru pre nerf, C'thun and KTIm_on_a_boat

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Im_on_a_boat"]People saying Wrath is casual are talking crap. Do the heroic modes. Heroic 25 man LK is just as hard as Muru pre nerf, C'thun and KTIm_on_a_boat

here is the thing... will all your items be completely trumped by easy to find greens once cataclysm is released? the answer is yes.... why invest thousands of hours in a game knowing full well all your progress is going to be worthless once the next expansion comes out?

At least in everquest... if you wanted to do the raids of the new expansion... you had to be fully raid geared from the old expansion. Each expansions didnt just nullify all previous progress. Its a stupid pointless system designed at courting the new casual player.

really damn good answer.

but personally i like to think im building the value of my character the more i play... and we arent all just reset to 0 on a regular basis... so maybe you can understand my major gripe with the game and why i think its more casual friendly.... it doesnt favor a person thats been playing everyday since release.

[QUOTE="Im_on_a_boat"]People saying Wrath is casual are talking crap. Do the heroic modes. Heroic 25 man LK is just as hard as Muru pre nerf, C'thun and KTmarkinthedark

here is the thing... will all your items be completely trumped by easy to find greens once cataclysm is released? the answer is yes.... why invest thousands of hours in a game knowing full well all your progress is going to be worthless once the next expansion comes out?

At least in everquest... if you wanted to do the raids of the new expansion... you had to be fully raid geared from the old expansion. Each expansions didnt just nullify all previous progress. Its a stupid pointless system designed at courting the new casual player.

[QUOTE="Brownesque"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

I can get you everywhere.... WoW started off pretty casual, each expansions made it more casual. Game is pretty worthless these days.

No idea what the argument is, but the game is rather worthless at this point. Each expansion seemed to offer a crutch for people not good at the game, to catch up to people that are good at the game.

EDIT: and cataclysm will not outsell blackops in the first 24, expansions are heavily staggered... the 12 million announcement came when WotLK was released in asia, many months ofter being released in other countries.

markinthedark

I dont know what any of that crap means to be honest. I was all pvp in WoW... raiding was a joke after playing everquest. The easiest raid encounter in everquest made the most difficult raid encounter in vanilla wow look like a fisher price game. The fact that every expansion only made it easier to get good gear is just icing on the cake of how crappy the game is.

Highly doubt it will beat black opsDiviniuz

[QUOTE="Im_on_a_boat"]People saying Wrath is casual are talking crap. Do the heroic modes. Heroic 25 man LK is just as hard as Muru pre nerf, C'thun and KTRingx55