XBL = Paying three times for the same thing?

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KiZZo1

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#1 KiZZo1
Member since 2007 • 3989 Posts

First you pay your subscription, that one is obvious.

Second you pay with a fraction of a game's price. That is the case with a lot of PC games, and it's not only true for games, which require a minimal amount of server side processing. Games like Guild Wars, or Blizzard's battle.net offer a lot at no cost (apart from that initial fraction I mentioned). Here, you might counter, by saying, that this is only true for games that sell a lot, but don't forget that games that sell less also require less resources in the backend. And of course some games can run everything on one of the players' machines, so nothing additional is required (maybe just a server tracking the current games).

Third - Microsoft puts advertisements to milk some additional dollar from people who have already paid. Ads could make sense for free services like Steam, PSN or battle.net (which I believe are ad free, excluding an occasional promotion for a product they sell). But once you pay, you should not be seeing ads (HBO?).

Finally, a disclaimer – I have no access to Microsoft's account books, so I cannot be definitive that they overcharge. Maybe they do, or maybe they are not using the income from those sources efficiently.

A defense of the sort "if people pay for it, it must be worth it" does not work. Even under a monopoly it might be worth using a product or a service, instead of ignoring it because you perceive its pricing as unjust. That would not make the behavior of a monopolist moral (of course, we have an oligopoly in the gaming market, I was just giving an example).

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Vari3ty

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#2 Vari3ty
Member since 2009 • 11111 Posts

The advertisements thing is what really bugs me. I paid for the service, now remove the god**** ads. But what do we get now? Ooo, interactive ads for our Kinects! Yippee!!!!

****that.

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Grawse

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#3 Grawse
Member since 2010 • 4342 Posts

XBL is a massive rip off imo. Thankfully I bought 2 cards for 40 each which is still too much considering I rarely play 360. The ads can be annoying. There seems to be more ads since MS announced the XBL price increase. Milkage at its finest.

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dercoo

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#4 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

I thought it was long decided the basics of online (playing games you paid for online) should be a free service. (amongst SW)

XBL will always be over priced till that is met

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gc3n

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#5 gc3n
Member since 2008 • 34 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk5DhxQHLo


You cannot defend this.

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dercoo

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#6 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk5DhxQHLo


You cannot defend this.

gc3n

:lol:

I have never seen a rating so red on youtube:lol:

Also nice Sony TV Microsoft8)

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KiZZo1

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#7 KiZZo1
Member since 2007 • 3989 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk5DhxQHLo


You cannot defend this.

gc3n

That is horrible, I didn't even know about it. Is that for Gold members too?

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Jynxzor

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#8 Jynxzor
Member since 2003 • 9313 Posts
In before "Cash makes Xbox live untouchable" Live does nothing for me as a gamer, so I'll stick to not paying for the same experience "Sometimes better" on my PC and PS3
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SaltyMeatballs

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#9 SaltyMeatballs
Member since 2009 • 25165 Posts

Of course MS over charge, but if you own just a 360 then you will have to pay to play online or get another system... paying for XBL is the immediate cheapest option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk5DhxQHLo


You cannot defend this.

gc3n

OMG so asewome, Kinect is the future.

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-Snooze-

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#10 -Snooze-
Member since 2009 • 7304 Posts

Yes we know. MS sucks, this isn't news.

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Sagem28

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#11 Sagem28
Member since 2010 • 10498 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk5DhxQHLo


You cannot defend this.

gc3n

"Check out the great music in this Coca Cola commercial !"

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JW-toch

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#12 JW-toch
Member since 2008 • 344 Posts

I never understood paying for XBL. Why pay for such a service? I have an Xbox 360, but never had XBL. If I want to play games online, I'll use my PC. You've bought the games already, there's no need to pay again just to use a part of the game you've already paid for.

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deactivated-5b31d3729c1fa

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#13 deactivated-5b31d3729c1fa
Member since 2007 • 11536 Posts

i just bought 2 months for 2 bucks :P

only good XBL deal i ever done :P

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xhawk27

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#14 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12194 Posts
All you Sony fanboys make me laugh. Go back to playing on Home or should I say Adtown. :D Second these Ads you have to click on them. If you don't click you don't have to watch them. :|
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KiZZo1

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#15 KiZZo1
Member since 2007 • 3989 Posts

All you Sony fanboys make me laugh. Go back to playing on Home or should I say Adtown. :D Second these Ads you have to click on them. If you don't click you don't have to watch them. :|xhawk27

First - you know Home is optional - you don't have to install it, and if you do, you have to start it to see any ad.

Second - how can I click on something invisible. Oh, that's right, part of the ad must be visible even before I click it.

Third - bashing Sony is not at all responding to my original post, because I pointed out a number of other PC services which are supported only from your initial purchase and some are free from the get go, imagine that!

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xhawk27

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#16 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12194 Posts

[QUOTE="xhawk27"]All you Sony fanboys make me laugh. Go back to playing on Home or should I say Adtown. :D Second these Ads you have to click on them. If you don't click you don't have to watch them. :|KiZZo1

First - you know Home is optional - you don't have to install it, and if you do, you have to start it to see any ad.

Second - how can I click on something invisible. Oh, that's right, part of the ad must be visible even before I click it.

Third - bashing Sony is not at all responding to my original post, because I pointed out a number of other PC services which are supported only from your initial purchase and some are free from the get go, imagine that!

Yeah they are small boxes on the screen like kind of the ones on most websites now including Gamespot. You don't click on them they don't jump to full screen size. Also expect to see lots of Ads on PSN too since it is free and Sony is going to start to hurt for Ad revenue.
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NoodleFighter

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#17 NoodleFighter
Member since 2011 • 11897 Posts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk5DhxQHLo


You cannot defend this.

gc3n

When the guy said "Xbox Goodbye" that's what I felt when I kicked one into a dumpster.

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xhawk27

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#18 xhawk27
Member since 2010 • 12194 Posts

[QUOTE="gc3n"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk5DhxQHLo


You cannot defend this.

NoodleFighter

When the guy said "Xbox Goodbye" that's what I felt when I kicked one into a dumpster.

You first need to have an Xbox and I doubt that person even had one. I bet he is a Sony fanboy bashing anything MS does.
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KiZZo1

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#19 KiZZo1
Member since 2007 • 3989 Posts

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

[QUOTE="xhawk27"]All you Sony fanboys make me laugh. Go back to playing on Home or should I say Adtown. :D Second these Ads you have to click on them. If you don't click you don't have to watch them. :|xhawk27

First - you know Home is optional - you don't have to install it, and if you do, you have to start it to see any ad.

Second - how can I click on something invisible. Oh, that's right, part of the ad must be visible even before I click it.

Third - bashing Sony is not at all responding to my original post, because I pointed out a number of other PC services which are supported only from your initial purchase and some are free from the get go, imagine that!

Yeah they are small boxes on the screen like kind of the ones on most websites now including Gamespot. You don't click on them they don't jump to full screen size. Also expect to see lots of Ads on PSN too since it is free and Sony is going to start to hurt for Ad revenue.

I don't know why you constantly speak of Sony. Even if PSN has giant fullscreen ads, charges you $1000 for online and Kaz Hirai goes on a rampage, that would still do NOTING to invalidate my arguments ... It might warrant a separate criticism on Sony but it would not excuse MS ...

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viper-kid

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#20 viper-kid
Member since 2007 • 811 Posts

[QUOTE="xhawk27"][QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

First - you know Home is optional - you don't have to install it, and if you do, you have to start it to see any ad.

Second - how can I click on something invisible. Oh, that's right, part of the ad must be visible even before I click it.

Third - bashing Sony is not at all responding to my original post, because I pointed out a number of other PC services which are supported only from your initial purchase and some are free from the get go, imagine that!

KiZZo1

Yeah they are small boxes on the screen like kind of the ones on most websites now including Gamespot. You don't click on them they don't jump to full screen size. Also expect to see lots of Ads on PSN too since it is free and Sony is going to start to hurt for Ad revenue.

I don't know why you constantly speak of Sony. Even if PSN has giant fullscreen ads, charges you $1000 for online and Kaz Hirai goes on a rampage, that would still do NOTING to invalidate my arguments ... It might warrant a separate criticism on Sony but it would not excuse MS ...

It would mean that its the norm for console gaming.
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Sgt_Crow

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#21 Sgt_Crow
Member since 2004 • 6099 Posts

Yes it should be free, but in all honesty, € 60,- a year is nothing... Still I wish they would just remove all the hassle and extra costs because the service doesn't provide that much more than other online services which are free.

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Sagem28

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#22 Sagem28
Member since 2010 • 10498 Posts

Yes it should be free, but in all honesty, € 60,- a year is nothing...

Sgt_Crow

True, I make more than that in one day.
Honestly I wouldn't mind paying that for online service, however I would expect my service to be fluid and free of bull****. Adding advertisements to the mix is just plain wrong in my eyes.

Heck, I pay for digital television too, and they don't show commercials. I would be pretty pissed if they did. They make money thanks to my subscription.
Bombarding us with adds just proves their mindless greed.

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lolconsoles

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#23 lolconsoles
Member since 2011 • 25 Posts
People still pay for it.
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gamer-adam1

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#24 gamer-adam1
Member since 2008 • 4188 Posts

XBL wasnt the first console to charge for online

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Sgt_Crow

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#25 Sgt_Crow
Member since 2004 • 6099 Posts

True, I make more than that in one day.
Honestly I wouldn't mind paying that for online service, Sagem28


Indeed, I work less than 3 hours a year to play online for that whole year.
However it's the extra hassle and of course the fact that you already pay quite a lot for games these days.
And yea the service is not THAT much better than the PS3's for example, only a bit.

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EZs

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#26 EZs
Member since 2005 • 1573 Posts

[QUOTE="Sagem28"]True, I make more than that in one day.
Honestly I wouldn't mind paying that for online service, Sgt_Crow



Indeed, I work less than 3 hours a year to play online for that whole year.
However it's the extra hassle and of course the fact that you already pay quite a lot for games these days.
And yea the service is not THAT much better than the PS3's for example, only a bit.

I gotta work 2 days to pay it, sucks to be me :(

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Mau-Justice

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#27 Mau-Justice
Member since 2008 • 4907 Posts
I absolutely get my moneys worth from 360. It was the first console with Netflix, we get party chat and the smoothest online of any console. Plus Microsoft hasn't allowed my credit card to be compromised, so that's a plus. I only use my PS3 for Single player, exclusives or games on multiple discs. I try to stay away from using it online unless I have no other choice.
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Maroxad

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#28 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25296 Posts

It may be overpriced, but that doesnt stop some people from thinking it is worth their money. I can easily see why people subscribe for Xbox live, 5 dollars for potentially over 100 hours of gameplay.

With that said, I am in no way in hell subscribing for Xbox live myself, I mainly game on PS3, Wii and PC these days

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bryn8150

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#29 bryn8150
Member since 2004 • 795 Posts

cant believe you COWS have the gall to climb out from under your rocks and take a shot at XBOX LIVE after the PSN fiasco which comprimised millions of subscribers....i mean the Stones on you guys.

i pay for xbox live because its a far superior service and thats just the end of it. i HAVE A JOB so the 49 bucks a year isnt an inssue to continue palying online in a secure infrastructure.

cant believe we are still having this conversation??

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speedfog

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#31 speedfog
Member since 2009 • 4966 Posts

I pay for watching television and it also has ads..

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KevinnButlerNPK

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#32 KevinnButlerNPK
Member since 2010 • 1145 Posts

cant believe you COWS have the gall to climb out from under your rocks and take a shot at XBOX LIVE after the PSN fiasco which comprimised millions of subscribers....i mean the Stones on you guys.

i pay for xbox live because its a far superior service and thats just the end of it. i HAVE A JOB so the 49 bucks a year isnt an inssue to continue palying online in a secure infrastructure.

cant believe we are still having this conversation??

bryn8150

qFT the only people that constantly complain about the price seem to be Sony fanboys. Seriously, if you don't want to see the ads, you don't go to them, Simple as that. I also pointed out that if you paid for all of the extra online features Sony offers, you would pay more per year then XBL and get less.

The ONLY ripoff I see on live is HuluPlus,

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TheMoreYouOwn

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#33 TheMoreYouOwn
Member since 2010 • 3927 Posts

[QUOTE="gc3n"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk5DhxQHLo


You cannot defend this.

dercoo

:lol:

I have never seen a rating so red on youtube:lol:

Also nice Sony TV Microsoft8)

Well...perhaps this will make up for the lack of exclusives for the 360. Now you get....exclusive advertisements? ;)

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KiZZo1

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#34 KiZZo1
Member since 2007 • 3989 Posts

[QUOTE="bryn8150"]

cant believe you COWS have the gall to climb out from under your rocks and take a shot at XBOX LIVE after the PSN fiasco which comprimised millions of subscribers....i mean the Stones on you guys.

i pay for xbox live because its a far superior service and thats just the end of it. i HAVE A JOB so the 49 bucks a year isnt an inssue to continue palying online in a secure infrastructure.

cant believe we are still having this conversation??

KevinnButlerNPK

qFT the only people that constantly complain about the price seem to be Sony fanboys. Seriously, if you don't want to see the ads, you don't go to them, Simple as that. I also pointed out that if you paid for all of the extra online features Sony offers, you would pay more per year then XBL and get less.

The ONLY ripoff I see on live is HuluPlus,

What is this knee-jerk reaction of bashing Sony when XBL is criticized? The argument is even more valid from a PC user's perspective. Why don't MS try to charge for GFWL? Cause they will be laughed off, that's why ...

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#35 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 50095 Posts

But once you pay, you should not be seeing ads (HBO?).KiZZo1

While I agree, what logic is that based upon?

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KevinnButlerNPK

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#36 KevinnButlerNPK
Member since 2010 • 1145 Posts

[QUOTE="KevinnButlerNPK"]

[QUOTE="bryn8150"]

cant believe you COWS have the gall to climb out from under your rocks and take a shot at XBOX LIVE after the PSN fiasco which comprimised millions of subscribers....i mean the Stones on you guys.

i pay for xbox live because its a far superior service and thats just the end of it. i HAVE A JOB so the 49 bucks a year isnt an inssue to continue palying online in a secure infrastructure.

cant believe we are still having this conversation??

KiZZo1

qFT the only people that constantly complain about the price seem to be Sony fanboys. Seriously, if you don't want to see the ads, you don't go to them, Simple as that. I also pointed out that if you paid for all of the extra online features Sony offers, you would pay more per year then XBL and get less.

The ONLY ripoff I see on live is HuluPlus,

What is this knee-jerk reaction of bashing Sony when XBL is criticized? The argument is even more valid from a PC user's perspective. Why don't MS try to charge for GFWL? Cause they will be laughed off, that's why ...

What argu,ent? Your jaded OPINION that it's a ripoff? Provide an actual argument and not a fanboy rant and maybe you'll be onto something...

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KiZZo1

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#37 KiZZo1
Member since 2007 • 3989 Posts

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]But once you pay, you should not be seeing ads (HBO?).Stevo_the_gamer

While I agree, what logic is that based upon?

As I said, I have no access to MS's account sheets, so I cannot prove it to you. It's just something that occurred to me while I was thinking and comparing different things.

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todd2r

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#38 todd2r
Member since 2009 • 2615 Posts

cant believe you COWS have the gall to climb out from under your rocks and take a shot at XBOX LIVE after the PSN fiasco which comprimised millions of subscribers....i mean the Stones on you guys.

i pay for xbox live because its a far superior service and thats just the end of it. i HAVE A JOB so the 49 bucks a year isnt an inssue to continue palying online in a secure infrastructure.

cant believe we are still having this conversation??

bryn8150
This guy gets it.
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shinrabanshou

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#39 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

Why don't MS try to charge for GFWL? Cause they will be laughed off, that's why ...

KiZZo1

They actually did try to. And the master race loled.

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#41 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 50095 Posts

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]But once you pay, you should not be seeing ads (HBO?).KiZZo1

While I agree, what logic is that based upon?

As I said, I have no access to MS's account sheets, so I cannot prove it to you. It's just something that occurred to me while I was thinking and comparing different things.

So, it can be summarized as an entitlement deal?
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daviwinn

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#42 daviwinn
Member since 2004 • 4827 Posts
Without ads, how would we know about new things? I'm ok with ads, every web site and TV channel I see has them (including paid channels on cable like HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc). I prefer non intrusive ads like on a web site or xbox live that I can choose to ignore if the product doesn't interest me rather than commercials that can't be skipped. Long story short ads are not always a bad thing because we need them.
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deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318

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#43 deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318
Member since 2008 • 4166 Posts
Have there been any improvements since the price rise, or has all that cash just gone straight into CoD DLC? I haven't noticed anything :(
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#44 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 50095 Posts
Have there been any improvements since the price rise, or has all that cash just gone straight into CoD DLC? I haven't noticed anything :(hoosier7
Rather large improvements coming this fall with the release of a new User Interface, Youtube integration, Bing Search integration, and Live TV.
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genaroll

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#45 genaroll
Member since 2010 • 710 Posts
Most of the ads on xbox live are for new marketplace content,deals,and gamer videos.Every ad you see on it is for something available on the 360,except for that 1 or 2 boxes for axe or some other company.If you had a 360 you would know this.
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deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318

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#46 deactivated-5f19d4c9d7318
Member since 2008 • 4166 Posts
[QUOTE="hoosier7"]Have there been any improvements since the price rise, or has all that cash just gone straight into CoD DLC? I haven't noticed anything :(Stevo_the_gamer
Rather large improvements coming this fall with the release of a new User Interface, Youtube integration, Bing Search integration, and Live TV.

Great though i have a feeling it's going to all great for the US, but other regions will no doubt lose out. I'm not sure if the TV service will even be available here since there is already Sky, they've also turned down potential deals with online catch up services for my region as the companies wanted to make them available to Silver members. Bing search is Kinect only isn't it? If so is completely useless to me anyway though youtube will be nice if i move the 360 onto one of the non internet enabled TVs.
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#47 xXDrPainXx
Member since 2008 • 4001 Posts
[QUOTE="hoosier7"]Have there been any improvements since the price rise, or has all that cash just gone straight into CoD DLC? I haven't noticed anything :(Stevo_the_gamer
Rather large improvements coming this fall with the release of a new User Interface, Youtube integration, Bing Search integration, and Live TV.

How does offering youtube, bing seach and other social media crap relate to playing a game online? I'm not hating I'm just wondering if the people who do support Live see these "updates" worth while since to me they have nothing to do with playing online.
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VoodooHak

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#48 VoodooHak
Member since 2002 • 15989 Posts

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"][QUOTE="hoosier7"]Have there been any improvements since the price rise, or has all that cash just gone straight into CoD DLC? I haven't noticed anything :(xXDrPainXx
Rather large improvements coming this fall with the release of a new User Interface, Youtube integration, Bing Search integration, and Live TV.

How does offering youtube, bing seach and other social media crap relate to playing a game online? I'm not hating I'm just wondering if the people who do support Live see these "updates" worth while since to me they have nothing to do with playing online.

Those features aren't for the core gamers. They do, however, mean something to the causal gamer. They are more inroads to attracting more casuals to Xbox Live as an entertainment service. And who knows? That could lead them to becoming core gamers.

As a gamer, I see the value of being connected to the community no matter what type of entertainment I'm consuming. Live TV will be another big push in that direction. Bing is a cool search tool considering that the amount of content on the service is growing on a daily basis. Cloud saves are another cool thing.

Sorry to break it to people, but the gaming universe does not revolve around you. At the end of the day, we are only a portion of the gaming ecosystem. We share the same space with casuals who do care about social media and youtube.

With respect to the price increase, there has been ONE price bump in all of EIGHT years that the service has been in existence. There have been plenty of significant changes during that time. From the party system to the whole redesign when the 360 launched and yet another redesign with the first NXE, I'm surprised it didn't go up earlier.

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#49 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 50095 Posts
[QUOTE="xXDrPainXx"] How does offering youtube, bing seach and other social media crap relate to playing a game online? I'm not hating I'm just wondering if the people who do support Live see these "updates" worth while since to me they have nothing to do with playing online.

Xbox Live is no longer purely about games, it's about the entirety of the media center--bringing together as many things as possible onto one device. Making things easier, and better for the consumer. Microsoft is looking at expanding into many other demographics, and while you have little to no interest in the improvements to the service as a whole... that doesn't mean many others will not be interested in this.
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Riverwolf007

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#50 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

sorry sw has proven time and again that our monetary situations have nothing in common and our tastes are different so your advice on how to spend my $$$ is useless.

new pc upgrade? omg! rip off!

xbl? omg rip off

replacing 2 sixaxis with dualshocks to get rumble for the tune of $110? omg! smartest thing you can do and qualifies you to run the federal reserve bank!