Xbox live is the most over rated gaming service!

all this xbox live being laggy is really a myth. I have a 2MB conneciton that lags only when i attempt to download at the same time. Dedicated servers really do not improve much just gets rid of host advantage (which most games balance out anyway) and allow more players (more players really doesn't make a game more enjoyable. I can think of only one exception and it's name is battlefront. Halo 3 team doubles (2vs2) is actually the most popular ranked playlist, instead of it being big team. Wonder why. Wait, it's because having giant matches is worse)

so really, there is no NEED for dedicated servers at all for 90% of gamespi3m4ster

erm the advantage of dedicated servers is that you can allocate much more bandwidth.
consumer internet connections are usually just adequate for family use or single person.
having specific servers with a lot bandwidth really helps relieve pressure on gamers.
especially since in some countries you have data cap limitations!

They've said repeatedly, that they read all the messages, but don't have time to reply to them all. And no, they don't just make a bunch of videos. They organize community events at trade shows and game launches as well as online events. They react to community concerns as I pointed out.

Alot of racism on XBL? Welcome to the internet. Do you think they have a person in every single game session ever in progress? They're out there, or you wouldn't hear about the suspensions and bans that people regularly report. And I have yet to get matched up with anyone I've avoided, so I'm not quite sure what you're doing.

Of course you have to pay for XNA games and arcade games...just like PSN users have to pay for PSN downloads and Wii owners have to pay for Wii downloads.

And yes, tons of people participate in the community events. Ladies Night, Family Game Night, Game With Fame, Community Play Dates... they're all pretty popular.

If you don't take advantage of these things, then what you're saying is that XBL isn't right for YOU.

If you don't like it, then you have other options. I'll keep enjoying XBL.

VoodooHak

the point isn't about whether the services are good or bad. but that the price is far too high/

the point isn't about whether the services are good or bad. but that the price is far too high/ Great_Ragnarok

It should be free, Live absolutely sucks compared to PSN and PC. The service is so laggy, ive played so many games I have been randomly kicked from or the other people made it too laggy to play. Id say 70% of games on Live I join are to laggy or full of idiots. And no its not me that laggy, I never lag on PSN or any PC online. bri360

[QUOTE="dthach614"][QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

Yes, it gets you online play. Now you have to ask yourself... what does "online play" entail? Obviously, it gives you the ability to play in online multiplayer. Lots of people can't seem to think past that.

Then there are things like:

• Cross-game chat
• Cross-game invites
• Highly visible and approachable community staff. There are people like Major Nelson, E, Trixie, StepTo and a bunch of others that give out their gamertags and emails to help the community. Example: the individual that was suspended for putting her sexual preference in her profile. This came to light from an article from The Consumerist who did not mention her name or gamertag. Steven Toullouse, director of policy, has extended an open invitation to this person to email him personally. They work with several groups such as parents and GLAD to form that policy. (listen to the latest Major Nelson podcast).
• Global Policy staff that actively police online sessions for bad behavior.
• Amabassador and Community Developer programs.
• A steady stream of community events. Some of them on a regularly scheduled basis, others to coincide with game releases, yet others just for fun.

I'm probably missing a few, but those are some things I know about. So yeah, online play is not just being in a session fragging people. There are some things going on in the background that, honestly, you shouldn't have to think about anyway.... kinda like the way a real service-based business is supposed to work.

VoodooHak

LMAO @ the bolded.

They do not always reply to emails and messages. and who give a craps about them anyway. they just make a bunch of videos.

They do not actively police online behavior. There's a lot racism on xbl. The rep system is trash, everybody have 5 stars. You will still get matched up with players you avoided.

You got to pay for XNA games and arcades. Your gold subscription does not cover that. LOL

Players actually participate in community events? lol

They've said repeatedly, that they read all the messages, but don't have time to reply to them all. And no, they don't just make a bunch of videos. They organize community events at trade shows and game launches as well as online events. They react to community concerns as I pointed out.

Alot of racism on XBL? Welcome to the internet. Do you think they have a person in every single game session ever in progress? They're out there, or you wouldn't hear about the suspensions and bans that people regularly report. And I have yet to get matched up with anyone I've avoided, so I'm not quite sure what you're doing.

Of course you have to pay for XNA games and arcade games...just like PSN users have to pay for PSN downloads and Wii owners have to pay for Wii downloads.

And yes, tons of people participate in the community events. Ladies Night, Family Game Night, Game With Fame, Community Play Dates... they're all pretty popular.

If you don't take advantage of these things, then what you're saying is that XBL isn't right for YOU.

If you don't like it, then you have other options. I'll keep enjoying XBL.

you brought up all that crap as if they were perks for being a gold member so please dont try to switch roles. explain to me why are those crap warrant a $50/year price tag?

majority of players do not participate in those online events.

being a gold member do no give you access to those events. you cant just flash your gamercard and get in. most if not all you will still have to pay an entry fee or be a journalist from some magazine or website.

you brought up the community games/xna like it was free for gold user. its not.

xbox live is police very poorly. PERIOD

I have been matched up with players i avoided.

I like Xbox Live, would I rather have it free? Of course I would, but its not that big of a deal for me.MrSlippery39

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]the point isn't about whether the services are good or bad. but that the price is far too high/ clone01

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]the point isn't about whether the services are good or bad. but that the price is far too high/ yoyo462001

i dont care about the price. $50 is nothing but i want some dedicated servers in return rather than a integrated dashboard.

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"][QUOTE="clone01"] if the price was far too high, almost no one would use the service. that's not really the case. while you might think its too expensive, i have absolutely no problem with it. i pay my yearly fee for a unified online service, that, in my opinion is equal in performance and far superior in features to PSN. i think that many gamers such as myself feel the same way.dthach614

i dont care about the price. $50 is nothing but i want some dedicated servers in return rather than a integrated dashboard.

[QUOTE="dthach614"]

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"]exactly some people may think its high or not worth whilst the 10 million gold users feel it is, its always going to differ in opinion. i dont understand why people feel the need to enforce their opinions on others, just like cows will justify the price of PS3 and thing everyone else is crazy for not have the same train of though is exactly the same with Xbox live.yoyo462001

i dont care about the price. $50 is nothing but i want some dedicated servers in return rather than a integrated dashboard.

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"][QUOTE="dthach614"]

i dont care about the price. $50 is nothing but i want some dedicated servers in return rather than a integrated dashboard.

dthach614

[QUOTE="clone01"][QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]the point isn't about whether the services are good or bad. but that the price is far too high/ yoyo462001

[QUOTE="dthach614"][QUOTE="yoyo462001"]what is this fascination with dedicated servers? id rather have no DS and a greatly integrated service than one without and all dedicated services. yoyo462001

Why pay extra for a Ferrari when you can drive a Fiat Uno?poptart

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"][QUOTE="dthach614"]

LMAO @ the bolded.

They do not always reply to emails and messages. and who give a craps about them anyway. they just make a bunch of videos.

They do not actively police online behavior. There's a lot racism on xbl. The rep system is trash, everybody have 5 stars. You will still get matched up with players you avoided.

You got to pay for XNA games and arcades. Your gold subscription does not cover that. LOL

Players actually participate in community events? lol

dthach614

They've said repeatedly, that they read all the messages, but don't have time to reply to them all. And no, they don't just make a bunch of videos. They organize community events at trade shows and game launches as well as online events. They react to community concerns as I pointed out.

Alot of racism on XBL? Welcome to the internet. Do you think they have a person in every single game session ever in progress? They're out there, or you wouldn't hear about the suspensions and bans that people regularly report. And I have yet to get matched up with anyone I've avoided, so I'm not quite sure what you're doing.

Of course you have to pay for XNA games and arcade games...just like PSN users have to pay for PSN downloads and Wii owners have to pay for Wii downloads.

And yes, tons of people participate in the community events. Ladies Night, Family Game Night, Game With Fame, Community Play Dates... they're all pretty popular.

If you don't take advantage of these things, then what you're saying is that XBL isn't right for YOU.

If you don't like it, then you have other options. I'll keep enjoying XBL.

you brought up all that crap as if they were perks for being a gold member so please dont try to switch roles. explain to me why are those crap warrant a $50/year price tag?

majority of players do not participate in those online events.

being a gold member do no give you access to those events. you cant just flash your gamercard and get in. most if not all you will still have to pay an entry fee or be a journalist from some magazine or website.

you brought up the community games/xna like it was free for gold user. its not.

xbox live is police very poorly. PERIOD

I have been matched up with players i avoided.

They're not perks. They're part and parcel with the service. If you think they're crap, then that's really on you. I and many others, some of them in this very thread, place value on these features.

The online events. I, for one, have participated in more than one of them. And when I did, I certainly wasn't the only one. Go ahead and join in on one of them. I will guarantee you there will be plenty of others participating. There are always events going on.

Anyone can participate in those events. I attended a Ubisoft event at Lincoln Square here in NYC. Free. Open to the public. I met Major Nelson at the Pandora Tomorrow launch in Times Square. Free. Open to the public. And who said those events would be free to gold subscribers? The point is that those community managers are there to provide coverage. After PAX, Major Nelson always invites anyone who wants to come along, to meet and hang out. Trixie organizes and provides safe haven for female gamers. They have their own Lady's Night. The community is well-taken care of.

I never brought up community games or XNA. It was the other guy replying to my post.

Policed very poorly? How many threads have there been here and in the Xbox forums where people have complained about being suspended or banned. Do you want to dig up the articles reporting that XBL brought the banhammer down on whole groups of people? Or how about that woman that got suspended and banned recently? Of course they can't be everywhere all the time, but they're definitely there.

Whether you realize it or not, whether you participate or not... that's all on you. If you don't find value in them, then by all means, don't be a gold subscriber. No one 'll miss you.

[QUOTE="dthach614"]

[QUOTE="yoyo462001"]exactly some people may think its high or not worth whilst the 10 million gold users feel it is, its always going to differ in opinion. i dont understand why people feel the need to enforce their opinions on others, just like cows will justify the price of PS3 and thing everyone else is crazy for not have the same train of though is exactly the same with Xbox live.yoyo462001

i dont care about the price. $50 is nothing but i want some dedicated servers in return rather than a integrated dashboard.

People want something for their money, besides smoke and mirrors.

[QUOTE="poptart"]Why pay extra for a Ferrari when you can drive a Fiat Uno?Great_Ragnarok

Hmmm... I think you should invest in a new exaggeration detector if I were you.

The point of my analogy still stands however - you pay extra for a better service, certainly when placed in direct comparison with PSN.

You seemed to be bothered by the financial component of LIVE. Most users aren't. That's it really.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"][QUOTE="poptart"]Why pay extra for a Ferrari when you can drive a Fiat Uno?poptart

Hmmm... I think you should invest in a new exaggeration detector if I were you.

The point of my analogy still stands however - you pay extra for a better service, certainly when placed in direct comparison with PSN.

You seemed to be bothered by the financial component of LIVE. Most users aren't. That's it really.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"][QUOTE="poptart"]Why pay extra for a Ferrari when you can drive a Fiat Uno?poptart

Hmmm... I think you should invest in a new exaggeration detector if I were you.

The point of my analogy still stands however - you pay extra for a better service, certainly when placed in direct comparison with PSN.

You seemed to be bothered by the financial component of LIVE. Most users aren't. That's it really.

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"] one of the worst comparisons ever. you think xbox live is like a ferrari? lmao. there's not a significant difference between xbox live,steam and PSN.... especially since xbox live costs 50$ per year it is certainly the worst out of the three.Great_Ragnarok

Hmmm... I think you should invest in a new exaggeration detector if I were you.

The point of my analogy still stands however - you pay extra for a better service, certainly when placed in direct comparison with PSN.

You seemed to be bothered by the financial component of LIVE. Most users aren't. That's it really.

Sorry I'm no MS apologist, however I don't think the $50 per year is really enough necessitate the call for action and revolution. We can pick holes in all 4 platforms, be it cost, performance, ease of access, online or multimedia functionality, size of controllers, size of media format, etc. You get the drill. Nothings perfect. Besides, if the 360 had free online and the same functionality; if only PS3 was cheaper; if only the PC came in a standardized format and its users not so self-righteous; if only there was a perfect system... then there would be no system wars I guess... ah well...

I always laugh at the misguided notions bandied around in threads like this, with cheapskates demanding for XBL to be free. And we always get "justifications" like the following:

• Why doesn't Microsoft offer dedicated servers? For $50/yr they should offer dedicated servers!!!
  Here's a little piece of information: neither Sony nor Valve offer dedicated servers for games played over their services. With very, very few exceptions, dedicated servers are run and maintained by members of the community, who pay big bucks to host a server. Do yourself a favor and go price out how much it costs to run one dedicated server hosting a handful of players for one month. You're looking at $50 a month. For one game running on one server with about 6-8 players. And that's after the game hosting company has applied economies of scale to bring the price down.
  
  For Microsoft to offer dedicated servers for the hundreds of online games on Xbox Live, the subscription fee would probably be $50-60 a month, at least. The only companies that offer dedicated servers for their games are MMO companies. And they either charge a hefty subscription fee or they make you pay real money for every in-game item worth having. For $50 a year, it is completely unrealistic to expect Microsoft to offer dedicated servers.
  
  Of course, the related argument is...
  
• Dedicated servers are the only way to get lag-free gaming! Xbox Live sucks without dedicated servers!
  There is no inherent advantage to a dedicated server versus a listen server, as long as the hosting machine has enough performance to run the game and maintain network communication, which any console can do (heck, even most handhelds can do that.) The only thing that determines the quality of the online game experience is the quality of the network connection between you and the server. It is true that dedicated servers tend to be hosted in data-centers with big, enterprise-grade bandwidth which enables them to maintain quality connections to more people. But it is also true that such phat pipes often dedicate less bandwidth per player to games, because that level of bandwidth is crazy expensive so they have to oversell it. Meanwhile some guy in a home with a FiOS connection has more upstream bandwidth than they know what to do with, and they aren't using it for anything.
  
  I'd much rather connect to the FiOS user than the dedicated server in a big, oversold data-center. The FiOS user is going to provide me with a better gaming experience with less lag.
  
  But of course the big question always is...
  
• Why are we paying $50/yr!? What do we get for all that money, when other services are free!? Waaaaa!
  Short, simple answer. We get more online games with better online features than with PSN or Steam. We get a service where every game has voice support. Every game has TrueSkill skill-based matchmaking. Every game has comprehensive stat tracking and leaderboards. Every game supports cross-game invites. Every game supports presence. Most games support sophisticated online game browsing and filtering, in a unified manner, while some games provide more advanced matchmaking features, but still within the unified XBl framework. Many games support Spectator Mode. Many games support ghost uploads and downloads. Many games support downloadable content through an easy-to-use and convenient interface that doesn't force us to exit the game to "install" the new content. Every game supports easy, fast patching. Some games support video. No game (except FFXI) forces you to sign up for multiple logins. No game makes you use a clunky GameSpy server browser.
  
  On PSN and Steam, most games give you a basic server browser and call it a day. Only the biggest AAA games will give you more than that. On XBL, the smallest games with the tiniest budgets can offer loads and loads of premium online features. That's what we get for $50/yr.

Xbox Live is a premium online gaming service with premium features that you won't find anywhere else. If you want the free stuff, enjoy PSN and Steam.

Sorry I'm no MS apologist, however I don't think the $50 per year is really enough necessitate the call for action and revolution. We can pick holes in all 4 platforms, be it cost, performance, ease of access, online or multimedia functionality, size of controllers, size of media format, etc. You get the drill. Nothings perfect. Besides, if the 360 had free online and the same functionality; if only PS3 was cheaper; if only the PC came in a standardized format and its users not so self-righteous; if only there was a perfect system... then there would be no system wars I guess... ah well...

poptart

in four years you would match the cost of a 360 core console price! just so you can access the multiplayer features

of a game you bought for 60$!! if you can't see the ridiculousness then that's quite dissapointing.

btw the strnegth of PC is that it doesn't come in standrad format. the hardware is completely customizable.

[QUOTE="InfinityMugen"]Xbox Live is not overrated. It's overpriced. Would I like this to change? Yes, but M$ is a business not a charity. If you were in M$ shoes and was raking in extra millions with this service, would you make it free out of the kindness of your heart? No I think not.dthach614

I always laugh at the misguided notions bandied around in threads like this, with cheapskates demanding for XBL to be free. And we always get "justifications" like the following:

• Why doesn't Microsoft offer dedicated servers? For $50/yr they should offer dedicated servers!!!
  Here's a little piece of information: neither Sony nor Valve offer dedicated servers for games played over their services.(Neither valve or sony charge for their service either!) With very, very few exceptions, dedicated servers are run and maintained by members of the community, who pay big bucks to host a server. Do yourself a favor and go price out how much it costs to run one dedicated server hosting a handful of players for one month. You're looking at $50 a month. For one game running on one server with about 6-8 players. And that's after the game hosting company has applied economies of scale to bring the price down.
  
  For Microsoft to offer dedicated servers for the hundreds of online games on Xbox Live, the subscription fee would probably be $50-60 a month, at least. The only companies that offer dedicated servers for their games are MMO companies. And they either charge a hefty subscription fee or they make you pay real money for every in-game item worth having. For $50 a year, it is completely unrealistic to expect Microsoft to offer dedicated servers.
  
  Of course, the related argument is...
• Dedicated servers are the only way to get lag-free gaming! Xbox Live sucks without dedicated servers!
  There is no inherent advantage to a dedicated server versus a listen server, as long as the hosting machine has enough performance to run the game and maintain network communication, which any console can do (heck, even most handhelds can do that.) The only thing that determines the quality of the online game experience is the quality of the network connection between you and the server. It is true that dedicated servers tend to be hosted in data-centers with big, enterprise-grade bandwidth which enables them to maintain quality connections to more people. But it is also true that such phat pipes often dedicate less bandwidth per player to games, because that level of bandwidth is crazy expensive so they have to oversell it. Meanwhile some guy in a home with a FiOS connection has more upstream bandwidth than they know what to do with, and they aren't using it for anything.
  
  I'd much rather connect to the FiOS user than the dedicated server in a big, oversold data-center. The FiOS user is going to provide me with a better gaming experience with less lag.in my experience I;ve had the opposite. I've had better performance with dedicated servers than user hosting.
  
  But of course the big question always is...
• Why are we paying $50/yr!? What do we get for all that money, when other services are free!? Waaaaa!
  Short, simple answer. We get more online games with better online features than with PSN or Steam. We get a service where every game has voice support.steam can do that as long as the developer puts that feature in to the game.Every game has TrueSkill skill-based matchmaking. Every game has comprehensive stat tracking and leaderboards. steam does that xfire does that. Every game supports cross-game invites.yeah coz this is worth 50$a year! Every game supports presence. Most games support sophisticated online game browsing and filtering, has nothing to do with multiplayer modes. and frankly hardly anyone cares. you pay 60$ for game expecting access to multplayer. thats all.in a unified manner, while some games provide more advanced matchmaking features, but still within the unified XBl framework. Many games support Spectator Mode.erm even CS 1.6 has spectator mode! Many games support ghost uploads and downloads. Many games support downloadable content through an easy-to-use and convenient interface that doesn't force us to exit the game to "install" the new content. Every game supports easy, fast patching. Some games support video. No game (except FFXI) forces you to sign up for multiple logins. No game makes you use a clunky GameSpy server browser.
  
  On PSN and Steam, most games give you a basic server browser and call it a day. Only the biggest AAA games will give you more than that. On XBL, the smallest games with the tiniest budgets can offer loads and loads of premium online features. That's what we get for $50/yr.

Xbox Live is a premium online gaming service with premium features that you won't find anywhere else. If you want the free stuff, enjoy PSN and Steam.

UnnDunn

lmao you forgot that steam offers full retail games to download as well. but none of these features matter.

what matters is multiplayer! and its ridiculous that you have to pay an yearly fee to access that.

in 4 years you would have spent enough moeny on live to buy a core console!

again it seem a lot of xbox fanboys are sympathetic to MS. why are you guys so eager to getting ripped off?

oh and the same live feature is available on PC....for free.......

[QUOTE="dthach614"][QUOTE="InfinityMugen"]Xbox Live is not overrated. It's overpriced. Would I like this to change? Yes, but M$ is a business not a charity. If you were in M$ shoes and was raking in extra millions with this service, would you make it free out of the kindness of your heart? No I think not.InfinityMugen

The service isn't overrated. Apparently it works well for what it's supposed to. The fee on the other hand, I wouldn't pay it.. so I don't :DEspada12

lmao you forgot that steam offers full retail games to download as well. but none of these features matter.

what matters is multiplayer! and its ridiculous that you have to pay an yearly fee to access that.

in 4 years you would have spent enough moeny on live to buy a core console!

again it seem a lot of xbox fanboys are sympathetic to MS. why are you guys so eager to getting ripped off?

oh and the same live feature is available on PC....for free.......

Great_Ragnarok

[QUOTE="poptart"]

Sorry I'm no MS apologist, however I don't think the $50 per year is really enough necessitate the call for action and revolution. We can pick holes in all 4 platforms, be it cost, performance, ease of access, online or multimedia functionality, size of controllers, size of media format, etc. You get the drill. Nothings perfect. Besides, if the 360 had free online and the same functionality; if only PS3 was cheaper; if only the PC came in a standardized format and its users not so self-righteous; if only there was a perfect system... then there would be no system wars I guess... ah well...

Great_Ragnarok

in four years you would match the cost of a 360 core console price! just so you can access the multiplayer features

of a game you bought for 60$!! if you can't see the ridiculousness then that's quite dissapointing.

btw the strnegth of PC is that it doesn't come in standrad format. the hardware is completely customizable.

You have a sizeable and rather unsightly bee in your bonnet about this matter. I understand you're keen for other people to share this bee in their own respective bonnets, however most people prefer their bonnets empty, and see no need for this bee of yours.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"][QUOTE="poptart"]

Sorry I'm no MS apologist, however I don't think the $50 per year is really enough necessitate the call for action and revolution. We can pick holes in all 4 platforms, be it cost, performance, ease of access, online or multimedia functionality, size of controllers, size of media format, etc. You get the drill. Nothings perfect. Besides, if the 360 had free online and the same functionality; if only PS3 was cheaper; if only the PC came in a standardized format and its users not so self-righteous; if only there was a perfect system... then there would be no system wars I guess... ah well...

poptart

in four years you would match the cost of a 360 core console price! just so you can access the multiplayer features

of a game you bought for 60$!! if you can't see the ridiculousness then that's quite dissapointing.

btw the strnegth of PC is that it doesn't come in standrad format. the hardware is completely customizable.

You have a sizeable and rather unsightly bee in your bonnet about this matter. I understand you're keen for other people to share this bee in their own respective bonnets, however most people prefer their bonnets empty, and see no need for this bee of yours.

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"]

lmao you forgot that steam offers full retail games to download as well. but none of these features matter.

what matters is multiplayer! and its ridiculous that you have to pay an yearly fee to access that.

in 4 years you would have spent enough moeny on live to buy a core console!

again it seem a lot of xbox fanboys are sympathetic to MS. why are you guys so eager to getting ripped off?

oh and the same live feature is available on PC....for free.......

UnnDunn

I always laugh at the misguided notions bandied around in threads like this, with cheapskates demanding for XBL to be free. And we always get "justifications" like the following:

• Why doesn't Microsoft offer dedicated servers? For $50/yr they should offer dedicated servers!!!
  Here's a little piece of information: neither Sony nor Valve offer dedicated servers for games played over their services. With very, very few exceptions, dedicated servers are run and maintained by members of the community, who pay big bucks to host a server. Do yourself a favor and go price out how much it costs to run one dedicated server hosting a handful of players for one month. You're looking at $50 a month. For one game running on one server with about 6-8 players. And that's after the game hosting company has applied economies of scale to bring the price down.
  
  For Microsoft to offer dedicated servers for the hundreds of online games on Xbox Live, the subscription fee would probably be $50-60 a month, at least. The only companies that offer dedicated servers for their games are MMO companies. And they either charge a hefty subscription fee or they make you pay real money for every in-game item worth having. For $50 a year, it is completely unrealistic to expect Microsoft to offer dedicated servers.
  
  Of course, the related argument is...
• Dedicated servers are the only way to get lag-free gaming! Xbox Live sucks without dedicated servers!
  There is no inherent advantage to a dedicated server versus a listen server, as long as the hosting machine has enough performance to run the game and maintain network communication, which any console can do (heck, even most handhelds can do that.) The only thing that determines the quality of the online game experience is the quality of the network connection between you and the server. It is true that dedicated servers tend to be hosted in data-centers with big, enterprise-grade bandwidth which enables them to maintain quality connections to more people. But it is also true that such phat pipes often dedicate less bandwidth per player to games, because that level of bandwidth is crazy expensive so they have to oversell it. Meanwhile some guy in a home with a FiOS connection has more upstream bandwidth than they know what to do with, and they aren't using it for anything.
  
  I'd much rather connect to the FiOS user than the dedicated server in a big, oversold data-center. The FiOS user is going to provide me with a better gaming experience with less lag.
  
  But of course the big question always is...
• Why are we paying $50/yr!? What do we get for all that money, when other services are free!? Waaaaa!
  Short, simple answer. We get more online games with better online features than with PSN or Steam. We get a service where every game has voice support. Every game has TrueSkill skill-based matchmaking. Every game has comprehensive stat tracking and leaderboards. Every game supports cross-game invites. Every game supports presence. Most games support sophisticated online game browsing and filtering, in a unified manner, while some games provide more advanced matchmaking features, but still within the unified XBl framework. Many games support Spectator Mode. Many games support ghost uploads and downloads. Many games support downloadable content through an easy-to-use and convenient interface that doesn't force us to exit the game to "install" the new content. Every game supports easy, fast patching. Some games support video. No game (except FFXI) forces you to sign up for multiple logins. No game makes you use a clunky GameSpy server browser.
  
  On PSN and Steam, most games give you a basic server browser and call it a day. Only the biggest AAA games will give you more than that. On XBL, the smallest games with the tiniest budgets can offer loads and loads of premium online features. That's what we get for $50/yr.

Xbox Live is a premium online gaming service with premium features that you won't find anywhere else. If you want the free stuff, enjoy PSN and Steam.

UnnDunn

We pay 50 bucks a year. that money should cover that.

Then we have matchmaking games like Halo 3 where the host is given to a random player and a lot time, it's the random player with a bad host. Matchmaking is by far the worst thing to ever happen to online gaming. remember back in the glory days of XBL where in games like Rainbow six , where players could use there xbox as a server. nowadays developerss is enforcing this bs call matchmaking down our throat.

none of the crap is worth 50 dollars A YEAR. Matchmaking is horrible. Truskill doesn't always match you with players at your level. IT TRIES too. A chatroom, cross games invites, a shopping entice dashboard is not worth $50/year. NOt every game "has comprehensive stat tracking and leaderboards." Halo 3 doesn't have a leaderboards. You have to log on to a computer to check your Halo 3's stats. I can look a the stats for the NBA game last night. woop de doo basil. Not every game have true skilmatchmatking, which is a good thing for me. Not every game support "sophisticated online game browsing and filtering" . Street fighter's quick match works like crap. You get more online games, but it is not like those online games come free with your gold subscription. you still going to have to pay for them separately. Not that many games support spectator mode. stop lying stop exageratting so much. there was some much BS in your post, hey is it April 1st already?

everybody that did not choose "it should be free" are out of their mind. how can you not want something to be free. please explain.MightyMuna

everybody that did not choose "it should be free" are out of their mind. how can you not want something to be free. please explain.MightyMuna

"Should" and "want" are very different things.

its about fairness. 10 million members simply means that the live business model worked. when they tried to implement the same plan on PC did it work? not PC fans knew this was a bad deal and they have it for free! as consumers we should demand more. for 50$ xbox live doesn't provide anything more valuable than say steam.Great_Ragnarok

one of the worst comparisons ever. you think xbox live is like a ferrari? lmao. there's not a significant difference between xbox live,steam and PSN.... especially since xbox live costs 50$ per year it is certainly the worst out of the three.Great_Ragnarok

Hmmm... I think you should invest in a new exaggeration detector if I were you.

The point of my analogy still stands however - you pay extra for a better service, certainly when placed in direct comparison with PSN.

You seemed to be bothered by the financial component of LIVE. Most users aren't. That's it really.

the point is steam and PSN are just as good. but they don't force you to pay to access multiplayer content. all you need is your own internet connection and you can enjoy multiplayer. paying 50$ a year is very unfair. seriously do you guys work for MS? or do you guys enjoy paying for a service that others get for free.... I love 360 games but extremely disappointed about having to pay an yearly fee. especially when the same service is free on PC! wheres the sense in accepting that?Great_Ragnarok

[QUOTE="Great_Ragnarok"] its about fairness. 10 million members simply means that the live business model worked. when they tried to implement the same plan on PC did it work? not PC fans knew this was a bad deal and they have it for free! as consumers we should demand more. for 50$ xbox live doesn't provide anything more valuable than say steam.clone01

Exactly. If you want MS to hear your message, speak with your wallet. Don't pay. All you (the TC) are doing is making alot of noise. Internet noise is largely ignored.