Zelda Wii U: Massive Overworld, Political Story, Customizable Main Character

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#201 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="Peredith"]

A deep, complex and interesting story in Zelda? What is this madness? :P

BrunoBRS

Someone hasn't played Majora's Mask.

that wouldn't change anything, really. majora's mask is many things, but deep and complex story-wise is not one of them.

Considering you can count the number of "deep" stories in this medium on one hand, that's not really saying much. It is fairly complex once you get into all of the subplots, though.

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Maroxad

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#202 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 25239 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Someone hasn't played Majora's Mask.DarkLink77
that wouldn't change anything, really. majora's mask is many things, but deep and complex story-wise is not one of them.

Considering you can count the number of "deep" and stories in this medium on one hand, that's not really saying much. It is fairly complex once you get into all of the subplots, though.

Yup, compared to most games MM has a deep and complex story if you factor in the subplots.

Gaming stories usually range from garbage to offensively bad. Some games have better stories than others though and Majora's Mask is one of the better stories.

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#203 themagicbum9720
Member since 2007 • 6536 Posts
lol at people calling wishes from february fake and calling it an april fools joke. people don't read threads anymore, they just post after reading the tc's post.
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#204 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Someone hasn't played Majora's Mask.DarkLink77

that wouldn't change anything, really. majora's mask is many things, but deep and complex story-wise is not one of them.

Considering you can count the number of "deep" stories in this medium on one hand, that's not really saying much. It is fairly complex once you get into all of the subplots, though.

other stories being a pile of turd doesn't make a simple story "deep and complex". it's detailed, yes, in that most characters are reacting differently to their impending doom and they all have mini-stories to follow (which is, honestly, the one thing that redeems MM for me), but detail doesn't mean complexity.
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#205 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] that wouldn't change anything, really. majora's mask is many things, but deep and complex story-wise is not one of them.BrunoBRS

Considering you can count the number of "deep" stories in this medium on one hand, that's not really saying much. It is fairly complex once you get into all of the subplots, though.

other stories being a pile of turd doesn't make a simple story "deep and complex". it's detailed, yes, in that most characters are reacting differently to their impending doom and they all have mini-stories to follow (which is, honestly, the one thing that redeems MM for me), but detail doesn't mean complexity.

Majora's Mask isn't really simple if you look at how everything happens. The plotting is pretty complex to get to the end point.
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#206 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Considering you can count the number of "deep" stories in this medium on one hand, that's not really saying much. It is fairly complex once you get into all of the subplots, though.DarkLink77
other stories being a pile of turd doesn't make a simple story "deep and complex". it's detailed, yes, in that most characters are reacting differently to their impending doom and they all have mini-stories to follow (which is, honestly, the one thing that redeems MM for me), but detail doesn't mean complexity.

Majora's Mask isn't really simple if you look at how everything happens. The plotting is pretty complex to get to the end point.

maybe we played different games. i don't remember it being really complex. it was pretty straightforward plot-wise, actually.
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#207 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] other stories being a pile of turd doesn't make a simple story "deep and complex". it's detailed, yes, in that most characters are reacting differently to their impending doom and they all have mini-stories to follow (which is, honestly, the one thing that redeems MM for me), but detail doesn't mean complexity.

Majora's Mask isn't really simple if you look at how everything happens. The plotting is pretty complex to get to the end point.

maybe we played different games. i don't remember it being really complex. it was pretty straightforward plot-wise, actually.

The overall narrative is simple to a fault, it's actually probably the simplest in the entire Zelda series. However, the intricate backstories and characterization lend it an almost unprecedented depth and complexity. Perhaps you and DarkLink are approaching the same problem from different angles.
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#208 arfy2
Member since 2006 • 1613 Posts

I haven't read the thread but from the first post this is waht I get:

 

Total BS. Why is the pic on the mag Wind Waker style Zelda holding a boomerrang and everything. It's defo fake

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#209 Big_Pecks
Member since 2010 • 5973 Posts

It's fake. Well, hopefully the art is. The info sounds awesome and way too good to be true.

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#210 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts

Wow. This people still haven't given up on this thread yet? :|

This sounds almost as fake as the futuristic zelda story that that one website ran for April Fools a few years ago.

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Zeviander

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#211 Zeviander
Member since 2011 • 9503 Posts
Hhhhhnnnnngggg
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#212 darkmark91
Member since 2006 • 3047 Posts

The customizing character part is what gives it away to being fake. 

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#213 parkurtommo
Member since 2009 • 28295 Posts

Nintendo would never do that

 

f*cking swedes :p

 

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#214 Nintendo_Ownes7
Member since 2005 • 30973 Posts

Nintendo would never do that

 

f*cking swedes :p

 

parkurtommo

Some parts make sense Nintendo did say they want a huge overworld for Zelda; They said their problem with Twilight Princess was the overworld wasn't as large as they wanted. My problem with Twilight Princes was the overworld was too empty and it didn't have as many sidequests. But the customizable characters is when it stops sounding believable.

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#215 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts
[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Majora's Mask isn't really simple if you look at how everything happens. The plotting is pretty complex to get to the end point.

maybe we played different games. i don't remember it being really complex. it was pretty straightforward plot-wise, actually.

The overall narrative is simple to a fault, it's actually probably the simplest in the entire Zelda series. However, the intricate backstories and characterization lend it an almost unprecedented depth and complexity. Perhaps you and DarkLink are approaching the same problem from different angles.

Probably.
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#216 Phazevariance
Member since 2003 • 12356 Posts
Fake. Sounds too cool.locopatho
This. Nintendo won't make it too difficult because they need to cater to their casuals like normal. The puzzles will be simplistic, the story will be under developed, and the worlds may be as large as ocarina but they will probably be as empty as ocarina also. If it ends up being game of the year and totally amazing, I will walk to the store and buy a WiiU on the spot.
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#217 deactivated-5acbb9993d0bd
Member since 2012 • 12449 Posts
Ugh its in wind waker style... shame.
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#218 Phazevariance
Member since 2003 • 12356 Posts
[QUOTE="MBirdy88"]Ugh its in wind waker style... shame.

No, that's just a cover of a magazine. Not actual imagery for the game.
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Sagem28

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#219 Sagem28
Member since 2010 • 10498 Posts

Fallout: New Hyrule ?

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#220 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Majora's Mask isn't really simple if you look at how everything happens. The plotting is pretty complex to get to the end point.

maybe we played different games. i don't remember it being really complex. it was pretty straightforward plot-wise, actually.

The overall narrative is simple to a fault, it's actually probably the simplest in the entire Zelda series. However, the intricate backstories and characterization lend it an almost unprecedented depth and complexity. Perhaps you and DarkLink are approaching the same problem from different angles.

like i said, the side stories make for detail, but they don't make it any deeper or more complex.
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#221 deactivated-5acbb9993d0bd
Member since 2012 • 12449 Posts
[QUOTE="Phazevariance"][QUOTE="MBirdy88"]Ugh its in wind waker style... shame.

No, that's just a cover of a magazine. Not actual imagery for the game.

Oh, then still hope!
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#222 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10531 Posts
[QUOTE="locopatho"]Fake. Sounds too cool.Phazevariance
This. Nintendo won't make it too difficult because they need to cater to their casuals like normal. The puzzles will be simplistic, the story will be under developed, and the worlds may be as large as ocarina but they will probably be as empty as ocarina also. If it ends up being game of the year and totally amazing, I will walk to the store and buy a WiiU on the spot.

I wish they were more difficult as well, but nobody makes large, open world games that are difficult. Just look at how easy Skyrim and Oblivion are. Skyward Sword was much more difficult than the games most people are asking Nintendo to make.
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#223 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
[QUOTE="Phazevariance"][QUOTE="locopatho"]Fake. Sounds too cool.PurpleMan5000
This. Nintendo won't make it too difficult because they need to cater to their casuals like normal. The puzzles will be simplistic, the story will be under developed, and the worlds may be as large as ocarina but they will probably be as empty as ocarina also. If it ends up being game of the year and totally amazing, I will walk to the store and buy a WiiU on the spot.

I wish they were more difficult as well, but nobody makes large, open world games that are difficult. Just look at how easy Skyrim and Oblivion are. Skyward Sword was much more difficult than the games most people are asking Nintendo to make.

Stuff like Skyrim isn't hard but it's at least possible to die. There's a sense of danger even if it's rare enough to actually die. Just the fact you need to be aware that giants can insta kill you, that wolves can swarm you, that archers/mages can shred you from a distance, that dragons can fly down at any time adds a sense of fear, makes the world feel hostile and unfriendly. No ones asking for Zelda to be Dark Souls difficult but it's waaay to easy at it stands, and that simple difficulty damages it's atmosphere and gameplay imo.
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#224 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10531 Posts

[QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"][QUOTE="Phazevariance"] This. Nintendo won't make it too difficult because they need to cater to their casuals like normal. The puzzles will be simplistic, the story will be under developed, and the worlds may be as large as ocarina but they will probably be as empty as ocarina also. If it ends up being game of the year and totally amazing, I will walk to the store and buy a WiiU on the spot.locopatho
I wish they were more difficult as well, but nobody makes large, open world games that are difficult. Just look at how easy Skyrim and Oblivion are. Skyward Sword was much more difficult than the games most people are asking Nintendo to make.

Stuff like Skyrim isn't hard but it's at least possible to die. There's a sense of danger even if it's rare enough to actually die. Just the fact you need to be aware that giants can insta kill you, that wolves can swarm you, that archers/mages can shred you from a distance, that dragons can fly down at any time adds a sense of fear, makes the world feel hostile and unfriendly. No ones asking for Zelda to be Dark Souls difficult but it's waaay to easy at it stands, and that simple difficulty damages it's atmosphere and gameplay imo.

I actually thought Skyward Sword was pretty difficult, but it was mostly due to the motion controls.:P

The difficulty in games like TES is completely nerfed by having the ability to quicksave before any encounter. Dying just doesn't matter. The difficulty in Zelda usually comes from the puzzles moreso than the combat. The "turn these three blocks to match the images on the wall" puzzles in Skyrim would have been better left out of the game entirely.

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#225 Shinobishyguy
Member since 2006 • 22928 Posts
[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"][QUOTE="Phazevariance"] This. Nintendo won't make it too difficult because they need to cater to their casuals like normal. The puzzles will be simplistic, the story will be under developed, and the worlds may be as large as ocarina but they will probably be as empty as ocarina also. If it ends up being game of the year and totally amazing, I will walk to the store and buy a WiiU on the spot.

I wish they were more difficult as well, but nobody makes large, open world games that are difficult. Just look at how easy Skyrim and Oblivion are. Skyward Sword was much more difficult than the games most people are asking Nintendo to make.

Stuff like Skyrim isn't hard but it's at least possible to die.

in the early levels yeah. Then your character becomes more and more OP as the game goes on.
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#226 LadyBlue
Member since 2012 • 4943 Posts

If true, and thats a big IF, then it's nice to see them step up for a change.

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#227 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"] I wish they were more difficult as well, but nobody makes large, open world games that are difficult. Just look at how easy Skyrim and Oblivion are. Skyward Sword was much more difficult than the games most people are asking Nintendo to make.

Stuff like Skyrim isn't hard but it's at least possible to die.

in the early levels yeah. Then your character becomes more and more OP as the game goes on.

Giants and swarms of enemies never stop being dangerous.
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#228 DarkLink77
Member since 2004 • 32731 Posts
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] maybe we played different games. i don't remember it being really complex. it was pretty straightforward plot-wise, actually.

The overall narrative is simple to a fault, it's actually probably the simplest in the entire Zelda series. However, the intricate backstories and characterization lend it an almost unprecedented depth and complexity. Perhaps you and DarkLink are approaching the same problem from different angles.

like i said, the side stories make for detail, but they don't make it any deeper or more complex.

Nonsense, yo.
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#229 Shinobishyguy
Member since 2006 • 22928 Posts

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="locopatho"] Stuff like Skyrim isn't hard but it's at least possible to die. locopatho
in the early levels yeah. Then your character becomes more and more OP as the game goes on.

Giants and swarms of enemies never stop being dangerous.

yeah they do. Or are you trying to insist that the level curve in skyrim isn't broken as f*ck?

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#230 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts

[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"] I wish they were more difficult as well, but nobody makes large, open world games that are difficult. Just look at how easy Skyrim and Oblivion are. Skyward Sword was much more difficult than the games most people are asking Nintendo to make.PurpleMan5000

Stuff like Skyrim isn't hard but it's at least possible to die. There's a sense of danger even if it's rare enough to actually die. Just the fact you need to be aware that giants can insta kill you, that wolves can swarm you, that archers/mages can shred you from a distance, that dragons can fly down at any time adds a sense of fear, makes the world feel hostile and unfriendly. No ones asking for Zelda to be Dark Souls difficult but it's waaay to easy at it stands, and that simple difficulty damages it's atmosphere and gameplay imo.

I actually thought Skyward Sword was pretty difficult, but it was mostly due to the motion controls.:P

The difficulty in games like TES is completely nerfed by having the ability to quicksave before any encounter. Dying just doesn't matter. The difficulty in Zelda usually comes from the puzzles moreso than the combat. The "turn these three blocks to match the images on the wall" puzzles in Skyrim would have been better left out of the game entirely.

Well that's a seperate issue. That's what games do these days. Autosave constantly and quicksave wherever you like. If you find that ruins the difficulty/enjoyment for you, be a big boy and restrict yourself from using that feature :D The puzzles in Zelda are awesome, no complaints there. I thought the Skyrim ones were alright, nothing special but not bad to have. The actual combat is what I'm talking bout here. I know Zelda isn't a Dark Souls combat game. But you DO fight and kill tons of monsters. It'd be nice if that was anywhere above "trivial" on the old difficulty scale!
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#231 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] maybe we played different games. i don't remember it being really complex. it was pretty straightforward plot-wise, actually.

The overall narrative is simple to a fault, it's actually probably the simplest in the entire Zelda series. However, the intricate backstories and characterization lend it an almost unprecedented depth and complexity. Perhaps you and DarkLink are approaching the same problem from different angles.

like i said, the side stories make for detail, but they don't make it any deeper or more complex.

Wrong. They do. That's the point.
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#232 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts
[QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Stuff like Skyrim isn't hard but it's at least possible to die. There's a sense of danger even if it's rare enough to actually die. Just the fact you need to be aware that giants can insta kill you, that wolves can swarm you, that archers/mages can shred you from a distance, that dragons can fly down at any time adds a sense of fear, makes the world feel hostile and unfriendly. No ones asking for Zelda to be Dark Souls difficult but it's waaay to easy at it stands, and that simple difficulty damages it's atmosphere and gameplay imo.locopatho

I actually thought Skyward Sword was pretty difficult, but it was mostly due to the motion controls.:P

The difficulty in games like TES is completely nerfed by having the ability to quicksave before any encounter. Dying just doesn't matter. The difficulty in Zelda usually comes from the puzzles moreso than the combat. The "turn these three blocks to match the images on the wall" puzzles in Skyrim would have been better left out of the game entirely.

Well that's a seperate issue. That's what games do these days. Autosave constantly and quicksave wherever you like. If you find that ruins the difficulty/enjoyment for you, be a big boy and restrict yourself from using that feature :D The puzzles in Zelda are awesome, no complaints there. I thought the Skyrim ones were alright, nothing special but not bad to have. The actual combat is what I'm talking bout here. I know Zelda isn't a Dark Souls combat game. But you DO fight and kill tons of monsters. It'd be nice if that was anywhere above "trivial" on the old difficulty scale!

I agree. Zelda enemies look so intimidating and impressive (especially in Twilight Princess) and yet they are so easy you would have to be mentally challenged to not be able to beat them in one go. Nintendo needs to step the difficulty levels up. Offer different difficulty levels, like in Fire Emblem.
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#233 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="PurpleMan5000"]

I actually thought Skyward Sword was pretty difficult, but it was mostly due to the motion controls.:P

The difficulty in games like TES is completely nerfed by having the ability to quicksave before any encounter. Dying just doesn't matter. The difficulty in Zelda usually comes from the puzzles moreso than the combat. The "turn these three blocks to match the images on the wall" puzzles in Skyrim would have been better left out of the game entirely.

charizard1605
Well that's a seperate issue. That's what games do these days. Autosave constantly and quicksave wherever you like. If you find that ruins the difficulty/enjoyment for you, be a big boy and restrict yourself from using that feature :D The puzzles in Zelda are awesome, no complaints there. I thought the Skyrim ones were alright, nothing special but not bad to have. The actual combat is what I'm talking bout here. I know Zelda isn't a Dark Souls combat game. But you DO fight and kill tons of monsters. It'd be nice if that was anywhere above "trivial" on the old difficulty scale!

I agree. Zelda enemies look so intimidating and impressive (especially in Twilight Princess) and yet they are so easy you would have to be mentally challenged to not be able to beat them in one go. Nintendo needs to step the difficulty levels up. Offer different difficulty levels, like in Fire Emblem.

That's really a good point too. You see these big imposing bastards and they look SO crazy, you get SO hyped up for a fight, and then it's just a trivial task to kill them. You might as well be cutting grass for rupees. It's really damaging to the atmosphere. It's hard to feel any sort of epic, excited feeling when enemies are such bitches. Compare that the insane tension and joy from fights in Dark Souls or whatever. No contest.
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#234 AzatiS
Member since 2004 • 14969 Posts
So you telling me to buy a 350 console + 60 + 60 , 400euros ++ ( more than 500$$ ) to play one game or two ? Most probably ill play this on my PC soon or later. I pass
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#235 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts
[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="locopatho"] Well that's a seperate issue. That's what games do these days. Autosave constantly and quicksave wherever you like. If you find that ruins the difficulty/enjoyment for you, be a big boy and restrict yourself from using that feature :D The puzzles in Zelda are awesome, no complaints there. I thought the Skyrim ones were alright, nothing special but not bad to have. The actual combat is what I'm talking bout here. I know Zelda isn't a Dark Souls combat game. But you DO fight and kill tons of monsters. It'd be nice if that was anywhere above "trivial" on the old difficulty scale!

I agree. Zelda enemies look so intimidating and impressive (especially in Twilight Princess) and yet they are so easy you would have to be mentally challenged to not be able to beat them in one go. Nintendo needs to step the difficulty levels up. Offer different difficulty levels, like in Fire Emblem.

That's really a good point too. You see these big imposing bastards and they look SO crazy, you get SO hyped up for a fight, and then it's just a trivial task to kill them. You might as well be cutting grass for rupees. It's really damaging to the atmosphere. It's hard to feel any sort of epic, excited feeling when enemies are such bitches. Compare that the insane tension and joy from fights in Dark Souls or whatever. No contest.

Well personally, Dark Souls takes it to the other extreme a bit too much IMO :P I want them to make it hard though. Like, keep the current difficulty as easy. Then have a Normal difficulty that is more like Ocarina of Time's default difficulty, just hard enough to offer a nice challenge without being frustrating. For the masochists, offer Master Quest from the get go lol.
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#236 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts
[QUOTE="AzatiS"]So you telling me to buy a 350 console + 60 + 60 , 400euros ++ ( more than 500$$ ) to play one game or two ? Most probably ill play this on my PC soon or later. I pass

What did you say, and what does that have to do with anything I said, or anyone said in this topic, and why are you a filthy pirate?
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locopatho

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#237 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts

[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]in the early levels yeah. Then your character becomes more and more OP as the game goes on.Shinobishyguy

Giants and swarms of enemies never stop being dangerous.

yeah they do. Or are you trying to insist that the level curve in skyrim isn't broken as f*ck?

That's a lie. I've played the hell out of Skyrim and giants can still insta kill me. I also get swarmed and killed the odd time if I'm not careful. I'm not saying it's a difficult game. I'm saying at least the enemies are actually a capable threat that you need to fight properly. Compare the giant's insta kill attack and massive health bar to Zelda bosses doing half heart damage and dying in a few hits.
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#238 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts
[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Giants and swarms of enemies never stop being dangerous.locopatho

yeah they do. Or are you trying to insist that the level curve in skyrim isn't broken as f*ck?

That's a lie. I've played the hell out of Skyrim and giants can still insta kill me. I also get swarmed and killed the odd time if I'm not careful. I'm not saying it's a difficult game. I'm saying at least the enemies are actually a capable threat that you need to fight properly. Compare the giant's insta kill attack and massive health bar to Zelda bosses doing half heart damage and dying in a few hits.

As for the damage done by regular enemies, they did fix that in Skyward Sword, but Skyward Sword had a whole lot of different issues pertaining to combat, so it doesn't really matter.
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locopatho

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#239 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts

Well personally, Dark Souls takes it to the other extreme a bit too much IMO :P I want them to make it hard though. Like, keep the current difficulty as easy. Then have a Normal difficulty that is more like Ocarina of Time's default difficulty, just hard enough to offer a nice challenge without being frustrating. For the masochists, offer Master Quest from the get go lol.charizard1605

O yeah Dark Souls is definitely the other extreme. I don't want Zelda to be that hard :P

Just using it as an example of how satisfying defeating challenging enemies can be. Replaying N64 Zelda is always fun. It's such a shock to take a hit and have like 3 hearts gone! :P

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#240 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"] yeah they do. Or are you trying to insist that the level curve in skyrim isn't broken as f*ck?charizard1605
That's a lie. I've played the hell out of Skyrim and giants can still insta kill me. I also get swarmed and killed the odd time if I'm not careful. I'm not saying it's a difficult game. I'm saying at least the enemies are actually a capable threat that you need to fight properly. Compare the giant's insta kill attack and massive health bar to Zelda bosses doing half heart damage and dying in a few hits.

As for the damage done by regular enemies, they did fix that in Skyward Sword, but Skyward Sword had a whole lot of different issues pertaining to combat, so it doesn't really matter.

Yeah they did more damage but still weren't particularly aggressive or challenging. Meh. Zelda. Why you hurt me so :/
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#241 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="charizard1605"] The overall narrative is simple to a fault, it's actually probably the simplest in the entire Zelda series. However, the intricate backstories and characterization lend it an almost unprecedented depth and complexity. Perhaps you and DarkLink are approaching the same problem from different angles.

like i said, the side stories make for detail, but they don't make it any deeper or more complex.

Wrong. They do. That's the point.

what does aliens attacking a farm, a couple's love story, among others (geez my memory is bad) influence in the complexity of "skull kid steals mask, mask posesses kid, makes the moon fall on parallel universe"? sure, you see the lives of people in varying levels of detail, but that doesn't change the fact that the story is "the moon is falling. stop that by getting masks from bosses". tolkien could spend 3 chapters describing how a rock looks like in a passage of LotR, but the rock wouldn't be any more complex or deep.
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#242 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

O yeah Dark Souls is definitely the other extreme. I don't want Zelda to be that hard :P

Just using it as an example of how satisfying defeating challenging enemies can be. Replaying N64 Zelda is always fun. It's such a shock to take a hit and have like 3 hearts gone! :P

locopatho
Yeah when i played Ocarina 3D two years ago, it came as such a shock after being coddled by Twilight Princess and Wind Waker lol [QUOTE="locopatho"] Yeah they did more damage but still weren't particularly aggressive or challenging. Meh. Zelda. Why you hurt me so :/

It's like an abusive relationship: it consistently lets us down, and yet we're always back for more :P
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#243 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10531 Posts
[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="locopatho"] Well that's a seperate issue. That's what games do these days. Autosave constantly and quicksave wherever you like. If you find that ruins the difficulty/enjoyment for you, be a big boy and restrict yourself from using that feature :D The puzzles in Zelda are awesome, no complaints there. I thought the Skyrim ones were alright, nothing special but not bad to have. The actual combat is what I'm talking bout here. I know Zelda isn't a Dark Souls combat game. But you DO fight and kill tons of monsters. It'd be nice if that was anywhere above "trivial" on the old difficulty scale!

I agree. Zelda enemies look so intimidating and impressive (especially in Twilight Princess) and yet they are so easy you would have to be mentally challenged to not be able to beat them in one go. Nintendo needs to step the difficulty levels up. Offer different difficulty levels, like in Fire Emblem.

That's really a good point too. You see these big imposing bastards and they look SO crazy, you get SO hyped up for a fight, and then it's just a trivial task to kill them. You might as well be cutting grass for rupees. It's really damaging to the atmosphere. It's hard to feel any sort of epic, excited feeling when enemies are such bitches. Compare that the insane tension and joy from fights in Dark Souls or whatever. No contest.

Yeah, I would definitely welcome a 3D Zelda game that poses the same kind of challenge as some of the 2D games. Basically, I want enemies to attack in swarms, and bosses to deal damage that costs multiple hearts when you take a hit.
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#244 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="charizard1605"]I agree. Zelda enemies look so intimidating and impressive (especially in Twilight Princess) and yet they are so easy you would have to be mentally challenged to not be able to beat them in one go. Nintendo needs to step the difficulty levels up. Offer different difficulty levels, like in Fire Emblem.

That's really a good point too. You see these big imposing bastards and they look SO crazy, you get SO hyped up for a fight, and then it's just a trivial task to kill them. You might as well be cutting grass for rupees. It's really damaging to the atmosphere. It's hard to feel any sort of epic, excited feeling when enemies are such bitches. Compare that the insane tension and joy from fights in Dark Souls or whatever. No contest.

Well personally, Dark Souls takes it to the other extreme a bit too much IMO :P I want them to make it hard though. Like, keep the current difficulty as easy. Then have a Normal difficulty that is more like Ocarina of Time's default difficulty, just hard enough to offer a nice challenge without being frustrating. For the masochists, offer Master Quest from the get go lol.

neither OoT nor master quest were hard combat-wise.
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#245 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
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[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="locopatho"] That's really a good point too. You see these big imposing bastards and they look SO crazy, you get SO hyped up for a fight, and then it's just a trivial task to kill them. You might as well be cutting grass for rupees. It's really damaging to the atmosphere. It's hard to feel any sort of epic, excited feeling when enemies are such bitches. Compare that the insane tension and joy from fights in Dark Souls or whatever. No contest.

Well personally, Dark Souls takes it to the other extreme a bit too much IMO :P I want them to make it hard though. Like, keep the current difficulty as easy. Then have a Normal difficulty that is more like Ocarina of Time's default difficulty, just hard enough to offer a nice challenge without being frustrating. For the masochists, offer Master Quest from the get go lol.

neither OoT nor master quest were hard combat-wise.

I never said they were. I said they were harder than what we have now, and offered a good challenge, unlike now.
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II_Seraphim_II

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#246 II_Seraphim_II
Member since 2007 • 20534 Posts
Video game designers need to realize that politics is boring. The reason why its boring is that its exciting if you are in it but boring from the outside. Anyways, in games the "political" aspect is just a reason to explain the battles occurring. Its not very fun. I would much rather they concentrated on a personal story. I find that every single game that has "politics" as the main driving force, the politics are usually dry and drab and act only as a way to justify some major war. And usually the political stories tend to neglect the main characters.
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#247 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
Video game designers need to realize that politics is boring. The reason why its boring is that its exciting if you are in it but boring from the outside. Anyways, in games the "political" aspect is just a reason to explain the battles occurring. Its not very fun. I would much rather they concentrated on a personal story. I find that every single game that has "politics" as the main driving force, the politics are usually dry and drab and act only as a way to justify some major war. And usually the political stories tend to neglect the main characters.II_Seraphim_II
Democratic politics are boring. The machinations of monarchs, emperors, and dictators are awesome tho :D
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#248 BrunoBRS
Member since 2005 • 74156 Posts
[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="charizard1605"] Well personally, Dark Souls takes it to the other extreme a bit too much IMO :P I want them to make it hard though. Like, keep the current difficulty as easy. Then have a Normal difficulty that is more like Ocarina of Time's default difficulty, just hard enough to offer a nice challenge without being frustrating. For the masochists, offer Master Quest from the get go lol.

neither OoT nor master quest were hard combat-wise.

I never said they were. I said they were harder than what we have now, and offered a good challenge, unlike now.

i was closer to dying in some SS fights (and before you say it, no, not because of controls or any of that shit, i never experienced any issues with controls in the game) than i ever was in any zelda since ALttP (the last zelda until SS that actually had boss FIGHTS, not glorified puzzles), so i'd say they're (slowly) walking in the right direction in that regard.
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#249 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 10531 Posts
[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="locopatho"] That's really a good point too. You see these big imposing bastards and they look SO crazy, you get SO hyped up for a fight, and then it's just a trivial task to kill them. You might as well be cutting grass for rupees. It's really damaging to the atmosphere. It's hard to feel any sort of epic, excited feeling when enemies are such bitches. Compare that the insane tension and joy from fights in Dark Souls or whatever. No contest.

Well personally, Dark Souls takes it to the other extreme a bit too much IMO :P I want them to make it hard though. Like, keep the current difficulty as easy. Then have a Normal difficulty that is more like Ocarina of Time's default difficulty, just hard enough to offer a nice challenge without being frustrating. For the masochists, offer Master Quest from the get go lol.

neither OoT nor master quest were hard combat-wise.

OoT was harder than most of the other 3D offerings. There were some areas that were legitimately tough on the first attempt, like facing shadow Link in the water temple. For the most part, though, you are correct. The enemies basically gather around you and take turns trying to launch an attack and then kindly wait while you take them all on one at a time. Skyward Sword is the most difficult Zelda game because your shield has a life bar. The game discourages you just sitting there with your shield up to block attacks. You have to move more.
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#250 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
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[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] neither OoT nor master quest were hard combat-wise.

I never said they were. I said they were harder than what we have now, and offered a good challenge, unlike now.

i was closer to dying in some SS fights (and before you say it, no, not because of controls or any of that shit, i never experienced any issues with controls in the game) than i ever was in any zelda since ALttP (the last zelda until SS that actually had boss FIGHTS, not glorified puzzles), so i'd say they're (slowly) walking in the right direction in that regard.

Like I said, SS fixed a lot of the issues. Now what I do want, however, is a game with controls that don't make me look like I am having a seizure, and is challenging.