Chris Benoit and Family, Found Dead

[QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

Mu5uk0

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

So are you saying that you haven't lost any respect for Benoit? Because that's all Mark is trying to say.

Benoit is no different than O.J. in my eyes. The only difference to me is that at lease Simpson was man enough to try and get away with it. Which he ended up doing.

Chris Benoit was a great wrestler, but ended up being a murdering coward. Repect that? Never........

[QUOTE="Mu5uk0"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

gqman2121_basic

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

So are you saying that you haven't lost any respect for Benoit? Because that's all Mark is trying to say.

Benoit is no different than O.J. in my eyes. The only difference to me is that at lease Simpson was man enough to try and get away with it. Which he ended up doing.

Chris Benoit was a great wrestler, but ended up being a murdering coward. Repect that? Never........

i still have respect for him, no where near as much as i did before yesterday. but i like to separate the wrestler benoit from the person benoit as i only know one of them. whatever he does in his personal life is his **** to deal with, wether he does it in a cowardly way or a stupid way it doesn't matter because i don't know chris benoit the person.

i still have respect for the wrestler chris benoit and nothing can change that.

Guys, chill out - not everyone is going to conform with each other. It's acceptable to have conflicting views and no one has the right to judge them crudely but instead show a bit of respect to one another andat least try to understand their point of view.

Having read the new info about his son's mental condition, I don't if it makes the matter worse or better. I don't think we'll ever understand what went on during that weekend or what was going through Benoit's mind, unless a suicide note is found shortly. If Benoit decided to kill his son to relieve him from suffering in the world as an action of active euthanasia, well, I don't believe he had any right to decide whether the quality of life for another human being would be better dead than alive.

I'm trying to get one thing clearhere :

Did Benoit kill BOTH his wife and son ?

OR Benoit found out that his wife killed his son , then he killed her ?

They say that the official cause of the death is that Benoit strangled his wife , smothered his son and hung himself in the weight room .

This is the latest from the Associated Press in the Chris Benoit murder-suicide case.

FAYETTEVILLE, Ga. (AP) -- Two days before he and his family were found dead in an apparent murder-suicide, pro wrestler Chris Benoit told co-workers his wife and son had food poisoning and were throwing up, according to World Wrestling Entertainment.

Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his 7-year-old son and placed a Bible next to their bodies before hanging himself with a weight-machine pulley, authorities said Tuesday.

Authorities offered no motive for the killings, which were spread out over the weekend and discovered Monday. No suicide note was found.

On Saturday, Benoit called a co-worker to say he had missed a flight and would be late for a wrestling event in Texas, WWE said in a timeline posted Tuesday on its Web site. The co-worker said Benoit sounded tired and groggy and said "I love you," which the co-worker found "out of context," WWE said.

When a co-worker who usually travels with Benoit called him later from the Houston airport, Benoit told the co-worker his wife, Nancy, was throwing up blood and that his son, Daniel, also was throwing up. Benoit said he thought it was food poisoning, according to WWE.

After Benoit talked to a WWE Talent Relations representative, the representative suggested Benoit try to make it to a pay-per-view event in Houston since he would not be able to make it to the live event in Beaumont, Texas.

But early Sunday, two co-workers received a series of text messages from the cell phones of Benoit and his wife. Most stated his home address in Fayetteville, about 20 miles south of Atlanta. One message from Benoit's phone said: "The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open," according to WWE.

The text messages led WWE to ask authorities to check on Benoit and his family.

District Attorney Scott Ballard said the messages appeared to be an attempt by Benoit to get someone to the home to find the bodies after his suicide.

Investigators found anabolic steroids in the house and want to know whether the muscle man nicknamed "The Canadian Crippler" was unhinged by the bodybuilding drugs, which can cause paranoia, depression and explosive outbursts known as "roid rage."

"In a community like this it's bizarre to have a murder-suicide, especially involving the death of a 7-year-old," Ballard said. "I don't think we'll ever be able to wrap our minds around this."

He said Benoit's 43-year-old wife was killed Friday in an upstairs family room, and her feet and wrists were bound and there was blood under her head, indicating a possible struggle. Daniel was probably killed late Saturday or early Sunday, and his body was found in his bed, the district attorney said.

Benoit, 40, apparently hanged himself hours later, Ballard said. His body was found in a downstairs weight room hanging from the pulley of a piece of exercise equipment.

The prosecutor said it appeared the wrestler remained in the house for up to a day with the bodies.

The boy had old needle marks in his arms, Ballard said. He said he had been told the parents considered him undersized and had given him growth hormones.

"The boy was very small, even dwarfed," Ballard said.

Toxicology test results may not be available for weeks or even months, Ballard said. As for whether steroids played a role in the crime, he said: "We don't know yet. That's one of the things we'll be looking at."

Benoit received drug deliveries from a Florida business that sold steroids, human growth hormone and testosterone on the Internet, according to the Albany County, N.Y., District Attorney's Office, which is investigating the business, MedXLife.com.

Six people, including two of the pharmacy's owners, have pleaded guilty in the investigation, and 20 more have been arrested, including doctors and pharmacists.

The WWE, based in Stamford, Conn., issued a statement Tuesday saying steroids "were not and could not be related to the cause of death."

"The physical findings announced by authorities indicate deliberation, not rage," the company said, adding that Benoit tested negative April 10, the last time he was tested for drugs.

Steroids have been linked to the deaths of several professional wrestlers in recent years. Eddie Guerrero, one of Benoit's best friends, died in 2005 from heart failure linked to long-term steroid use.

The father of Curt "Mr. Perfect" Hennig blamed steroids and painkillers for Hennig's drug overdose death in 2003. Davey Boy Smith, the "British Bulldog," died in 2002 from heart failure that a coroner said was probably caused by steroids.

Huh?

(One word post deflected)

If you can't lose repect for a man who killed his wife and son, then what will it take?

Benoit was a good wrestler but a horrible person. I can never enjoy a match of his again.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7043/wmxxeditedpagekp4.gif

MarkSmith did you go on Pro wrestling WWE board?

^^^(Nancy Grace) already (had a show about Benoit), and it wasn't pretty. Worse, she wasn't very informed about anything and immediately berated WWE for offering a tribute show to Benoit.

SYdoggXxX

This is true -- until Alex Marvez of the Observer came on. He settled everything, and explained to her what happened. Then Nancy went, "You know, that's good to hear. Now, on to the love of my life. That's right, I just got married. :):):):)"...with a bunch of pictures and whatnot of her wedding. No segue, nothing. Makes me sick.

Also. In my opinion, the needle marks on Daniel's arm are just as sickening as the murders themselves, in my opinion. And it proves that this wasn't just done during one extended fit of roid rage -- Benoit was a sick man.

[QUOTE="JML897"]

And it proves that this wasn't just done during one extended fit of roid rage -- Benoit was a sick man.

oshane_leagull

SWIMPunk has a big head.

i realize the wrestling community has shifted emotions pretty damn quickly on benoit, but pictures like this just isn't acceptable right now. take it down before you offend anybody else.

OKAY! OKAY! Sorry to anyone who was offended. :(

Edit: Thanks whoever deleted it, but uh... why would you edit his quote with SWIMpunk has a big head?

Benoit murdering his family and then killing himself ??? ......... it sounds twisted ....... how I wish it were'nt true ........... why would Benoit do such a thing ......... and I dunno whether to be sad or not ....... I mean , he was a great wrestler and all ........ but he murdered his family ........

I just read a NYTimes article that brought up the possibility of untreated concussions playing a role in Benoit's actions. I would think that would be more likely than "roid rage".trick_man01

Could I get a link to that please?

This whole thing is unbelievable and is really getting to me. Benoit wasn't just my favourite wrestler. He was a hero of mine. I was a fan of his before I discovered the IWC, workrate and that pretty much everyone else loved him too. He grew up in my hometown of Edmonton, he worked his @$$ off every night, he loved what he did, was respected by everyone and I also loved his gimmick of never giving up (like back in 2003 when he made Lesnar tap but Lesnar couldn't do the same to him no matter what he tried). Now with all of this, I don't know what to think. Look at all of Benoit's interviews and interviews about him. Look at what people said about him. Could that man really kill the two people he loved more than anyone else in this world? Why were their bibles beside the Nancy and Daniel's body when Benoit supposedly "hated religion"? What could possibly cause Benoit to snap and do this? Why did he strangle them? Why wouldn't he shoot them? If he was going to kill himself anyways then it doesn't matter if they know it was you. Also he would see them suffer longer. That would make him one sick son of a b****.

I thought it was a very classy move for WWE to cancel Raw. They didn't know how the Benoit family had died so you can't blame them for that. I also saw some of the comments on Youtube under some videos. The worst ones were on the video of Edge talking about Benoit on Raw. People were saying that the tears were fake, that Edge knew about what was going to happen and didn't do anything. They said that Cena's was fake and that he didn't know Cena or some other crap like that. You don't criticize things like this. Cena knew Benoit and probably learned alot from Benoit when they were on Smackdown together. And worst of all there was talk of Benoit doing this to upstage Vince and the WWE. To have a bigger death. Or that WWE did it because Benoit "knew too much" about something. So, so stupid.The things some fans are saying is really disgraceful. Throw in the media jumping on all this with the old wrestling is bad mentality. Talk of steroids even though there was no proof that steroids were involved and that this was obviously not from roid rage. The media's view on this can be summed up with a headline that was supposedly on TMZ.com: "World Wrestling DEADeration". So Disgraceful.

I'm not sure what to think now. Benoit was a hero of mine. And to see what has happened and the reaction from what has happened and I am in shock. It's like every new update is another kick to the stomach. I'm still not totally convinced though that Benoit did it. We shall see what happens over the next few days though.

[QUOTE="trick_man01"]I just read a NYTimes article that brought up the possibility of untreated concussions playing a role in Benoit's actions. I would think that would be more likely than "roid rage".Total-KO

Could I get a link to that please?

This is the site that Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero bought their steroids from.

MedXLife.com

It looks like they aren't selling anything now because of the events. You can't buy anything.

If you can't lose repect for a man who killed his wife and son, then what will it take?

Benoit was a good wrestler but a horrible person. I can never enjoy a match of his again.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7043/wmxxeditedpagekp4.gif

MarkSmith did you go on Pro wrestling WWE board?

Kotenks

Ya, as "Borat__Sagdijev"

[QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

Mu5uk0

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

oh and here are some quotes for you, they mean nothing to me but you seem to think quoting someone makes you right.

"Murder is born of love, and love attains the greatest intensity in murder" - Octave Mirbea

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus Christ

You think I need to grow up? Pot calling the kettle black.

Moral relativism is a logical fallacy, and you pulling quotes out of context because your little childhood hero is a douchebag is pretty pathetic.

[QUOTE="Mu5uk0"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

MarkSmith

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

oh and here are some quotes for you, they mean nothing to me but you seem to think quoting someone makes you right.

"Murder is born of love, and love attains the greatest intensity in murder" - Octave Mirbea

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus Christ

You think I need to grow up? Pot calling the kettle black.

Moral relativism is a logical fallacy, and you pulling quotes out of context because your little childhood hero is a douchebag is pretty pathetic.

Doesn't the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" mean that you both have the same problem?

Honestly, I don't know about the Jesus one, but his quote from Octave was definatly in context, as was yours from Burke. I'm not defending him, I don't really care if he still respects Benoit, that's his decision, but if your entire quote, with the exception of the "moral relaticvism is a logical fallacy," which I honestly think you only threw in there to insult his intelligence, is all just you trying to get everyone to the same moral plane as yourself. I'm sure that you of all people, seeing as you are likely well into adulthood and have experienced much more of life then most of us here, can realize that doing so is not possible.

EDIT: of course, I could be wrong about your "moral relativism" thing, it could also be a way to convert him to your level of morality, but I can honestly say I'm not ashamed in saying I don't know what that means. By the context it would seem obviousm but the fact that in the same sentence you would go from sohpisticated english to blue collar like insults makes me uncertain.

[QUOTE="MarkSmith"][QUOTE="Mu5uk0"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

WWEMAN101

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

oh and here are some quotes for you, they mean nothing to me but you seem to think quoting someone makes you right.

"Murder is born of love, and love attains the greatest intensity in murder" - Octave Mirbea

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus Christ

You think I need to grow up? Pot calling the kettle black.

Moral relativism is a logical fallacy, and you pulling quotes out of context because your little childhood hero is a douchebag is pretty pathetic.

Doesn't the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" mean that you both have the same problem?

Honestly, I don't know about the Jesus one, but his quote from Octave was definatly in context, as was yours from Burke. I'm not defending him, I don't really care if he still respects Benoit, that's his decision, but if your entire quote, with the exception of the "moral relaticvism is a logical fallacy," which I honestly think you only threw in there to insult his intelligence, is all just you trying to get everyone to the same moral plane as yourself. I'm sure that you of all people, seeing as you are likely well into adulthood and have experienced much more of life then most of us here, can realize that doing so is not possible.

EDIT: of course, I could be wrong about your "moral relativism" thing, it could also be a way to convert him to your level of morality, but I can honestly say I'm not ashamed in saying I don't know what that means. By the context it would seem obviousm but the fact that in the same sentence you would go from sohpisticated english to blue collar like insults makes me uncertain.

Holy crap, WWEMAN101 came up with an intelligent rant without saying' OWNAGE EXEMPLIFIED!?!?!?!11'

Holy crap, WWEMAN101 came up with an intelligent rant without saying' OWNAGE EXEMPLIFIED!?!?!?!11'

Total-KO

LMAO...

He was just waiting for an opportunity to shine, and he took it, in order for him to be booked to the main event. Kinda like when Edge slept with Lita (while she was with Matt Hardy), only for them to seperate after a couple months. However, the WWE didn't care and still used that incident to book Edge right at the top after a heated feud with Hardy.

I predict sometime soon WWEMAN101 will receive a similar push, although I have no idea how Gary is going to book it.

[QUOTE="MarkSmith"][QUOTE="Mu5uk0"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

WWEMAN101

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

oh and here are some quotes for you, they mean nothing to me but you seem to think quoting someone makes you right.

"Murder is born of love, and love attains the greatest intensity in murder" - Octave Mirbea

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus Christ

You think I need to grow up? Pot calling the kettle black.

Moral relativism is a logical fallacy, and you pulling quotes out of context because your little childhood hero is a douchebag is pretty pathetic.

Doesn't the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" mean that you both have the same problem?

Honestly, I don't know about the Jesus one, but his quote from Octave was definatly in context, as was yours from Burke. I'm not defending him, I don't really care if he still respects Benoit, that's his decision, but if your entire quote, with the exception of the "moral relaticvism is a logical fallacy," which I honestly think you only threw in there to insult his intelligence, is all just you trying to get everyone to the same moral plane as yourself. I'm sure that you of all people, seeing as you are likely well into adulthood and have experienced much more of life then most of us here, can realize that doing so is not possible.

EDIT: of course, I could be wrong about your "moral relativism" thing, it could also be a way to convert him to your level of morality, but I can honestly say I'm not ashamed in saying I don't know what that means. By the context it would seem obviousm but the fact that in the same sentence you would go from sohpisticated english to blue collar like insults makes me uncertain.

I'm going to kindly refer you to a sociology textbook. Every human civilization has recognized murder as being immoral. Animals mourn over their dead comrades.

My post was meant to convey the irony of someone trying to espouse the merits of moral relativism, and then quote of all people, JESUS.

Jesus is the man who said he is the way the truth and the life, and the only way to the father is through Him. That's about as anti-moral relativism as anyone who ever lived.

[QUOTE="WWEMAN101"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"][QUOTE="Mu5uk0"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

MarkSmith

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

oh and here are some quotes for you, they mean nothing to me but you seem to think quoting someone makes you right.

"Murder is born of love, and love attains the greatest intensity in murder" - Octave Mirbea

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus Christ

You think I need to grow up? Pot calling the kettle black.

Moral relativism is a logical fallacy, and you pulling quotes out of context because your little childhood hero is a douchebag is pretty pathetic.

Doesn't the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" mean that you both have the same problem?

Honestly, I don't know about the Jesus one, but his quote from Octave was definatly in context, as was yours from Burke. I'm not defending him, I don't really care if he still respects Benoit, that's his decision, but if your entire quote, with the exception of the "moral relaticvism is a logical fallacy," which I honestly think you only threw in there to insult his intelligence, is all just you trying to get everyone to the same moral plane as yourself. I'm sure that you of all people, seeing as you are likely well into adulthood and have experienced much more of life then most of us here, can realize that doing so is not possible.

EDIT: of course, I could be wrong about your "moral relativism" thing, it could also be a way to convert him to your level of morality, but I can honestly say I'm not ashamed in saying I don't know what that means. By the context it would seem obviousm but the fact that in the same sentence you would go from sohpisticated english to blue collar like insults makes me uncertain.

I'm going to kindly refer you to a sociology textbook. Every human civilization has recognized murder as being immoral. Animals mourn over their dead comrades.

My post was meant to convey the irony of someone trying to espouse the merits of moral relativism, and then quote of all people, JESUS.

Jesus is the man who said he is the way the truth and the life, and the only way to the father is through Him. That's about as anti-moral relativism as anyone who ever lived.

Honestly, I don't see any reference to irony. Also, are you calling mu5uk0 an immoral person simply because he still repects Benoit as a wrestler? The point I'm making is that all you really did was insult him and throw in a phrase that I'm pretty sure you knew he wouldn't understand. You also didn't specifically mention the quote of Jesus, you vaguely mentioned both as being out of context, when in fact both were. That quote is relavant, even if the author of it was not a believer in moral "relawhatever"

Seriously, why are you here though? There was no reason for you to express your thoughts here, from what I've seen you are not a wrestling fan and younot an active member of this union, and you are likely not going to post anything in any other topic, and therefore you are not really a valid contributor to WWEv.

EDIT: Another thing, I never ONCE said that murder was moral. I don't believe mu5uk0 did either. There is no reason for me to look in a sociology textbook, seeing as basic human knowledge would lead me to that conclusion.

The Associated Press has updated their Chris Benoit story. The latest report states that Dr. Phil Astin, Benoit's personal physician, saw him on Friday and saw no signs of distress or rage. The article also includes WWE confirming that Benoit's son suffered from Fragile X Syndrome. The full article is below.

Professional wrestler Chris Benoit met with his personal physician hours before he allegedly killed his wife and son and then hanged himself in his basement, the doctor said Wednesday.

"He was in my office on Friday to stop by just to see my staff," said Dr. Phil Astin of metro Atlanta. "He certainly didn't show any signs of any distress or rage or anything."

Authorities say Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his 7-year-old son Daniel and placed a Bible next to their bodies before hanging himself with a weight-machine pulley over the weekend. No motive was offered for the killings, which were spread out over the weekend and discovered Monday.

Astin, who said he was Benoit's longtime friend and physician, said he had prescribed testosterone to Benoit because he suffered from low amounts of the hormone. He said the condition likely originated from previous steroid use. He would not say what, if any, medications he prescribed the day of the meeting.

"I'm still very surprised and shocked, especially with his child Daniel involved," said Benoit. "He worshipped his child."

Investigators said Benoit's 43-year-old wife was strangled Friday with what appeared to be a cable in an upstairs family room, and her feet and wrists were bound and there was blood under her head, indicating a possible struggle. Daniel was probably killed late Saturday or early Sunday, and his body was found in his bed, the district attorney said.

Before the killings, the family was struggling with how to care for the child, who suffered from a rare medical condition called Fragile X Syndrome, an inherited form of mental retardation often accompanied by autism, said Jerry McDevitt, an attorney for World Wrestling Entertainment.

"Him and Nancy were clearly struggling about this whole issue, about how to take care of Daniel," said McDevitt.

"I don't know what he confronted when he went back into the house," he said. "No one really knows that. We'll have to see. Clearly this issue of the son was a stressor on both of their relationships for some time."

District Attorney Scott Ballard said the autopsy indicated that there were no bruise marks on his neck, so authorities are now assuming he could have been killed using a choke hold. "It's a process of elimination," he said.

Anabolic steroids were found in Benoit's home, leading officials to wonder whether the drugs may have caused the muscle man nicknamed the "Canadian Crippler" to kill his wife and child and then himself.

The WWE, based in Stamford, Conn., issued a news release Tuesday evening saying steroids "were not and could not be related to the cause of death" and that the findings indicate "deliberation, not rage." It also added that Benoit tested negative April 10, the last time he was tested for drugs.

"The drugs they had found in there, including the steroids, were all pursuant to legitimate prescription. We know they know which doctor prescribed it," McDevitt said. "There's no question, none of these drugs are out there, none of these drugs came from Internet pharmacies."

While steroids can cause the paranoia and explosive outbursts known as "roid rage," the drug is also associated with deep and lengthy bouts of depression.

"Just as you have the extreme high of when you're on steroids, you can get the opposite," said Dr. Todd Schlifstein, a clinical assistant professor at the New York University School of Medicine. "You can have a dramatic difference in mood swings. You can feel there's no hope, there's no future."

[QUOTE="MarkSmith"][QUOTE="WWEMAN101"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"][QUOTE="Mu5uk0"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

WWEMAN101

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

oh and here are some quotes for you, they mean nothing to me but you seem to think quoting someone makes you right.

"Murder is born of love, and love attains the greatest intensity in murder" - Octave Mirbea

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus Christ

You think I need to grow up? Pot calling the kettle black.

Moral relativism is a logical fallacy, and you pulling quotes out of context because your little childhood hero is a douchebag is pretty pathetic.

Doesn't the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" mean that you both have the same problem?

Honestly, I don't know about the Jesus one, but his quote from Octave was definatly in context, as was yours from Burke. I'm not defending him, I don't really care if he still respects Benoit, that's his decision, but if your entire quote, with the exception of the "moral relaticvism is a logical fallacy," which I honestly think you only threw in there to insult his intelligence, is all just you trying to get everyone to the same moral plane as yourself. I'm sure that you of all people, seeing as you are likely well into adulthood and have experienced much more of life then most of us here, can realize that doing so is not possible.

EDIT: of course, I could be wrong about your "moral relativism" thing, it could also be a way to convert him to your level of morality, but I can honestly say I'm not ashamed in saying I don't know what that means. By the context it would seem obviousm but the fact that in the same sentence you would go from sohpisticated english to blue collar like insults makes me uncertain.

I'm going to kindly refer you to a sociology textbook. Every human civilization has recognized murder as being immoral. Animals mourn over their dead comrades.

My post was meant to convey the irony of someone trying to espouse the merits of moral relativism, and then quote of all people, JESUS.

Jesus is the man who said he is the way the truth and the life, and the only way to the father is through Him. That's about as anti-moral relativism as anyone who ever lived.

Honestly, I don't see any reference to irony. Also, are you calling mu5uk0 an immoral person simply because he still repects Benoit as a wrestler? The point I'm making is that all you really did was insult him and throw in a phrase that I'm pretty sure you knew he wouldn't understand. You also didn't specifically mention the quote of Jesus, you vaguely mentioned both as being out of context, when in fact both were. That quote is relavant, even if the author of it was not a believer in moral "relawhatever"

Seriously, why are you here though? There was no reason for you to express your thoughts here, from what I've seen you are not a wrestling fan and younot an active member of this union, and you are likely not going to post anything in any other topic, and therefore you are not really a valid contributor to WWEv.

EDIT: Another thing, I never ONCE said that murder was moral. I don't believe mu5uk0 did either. There is no reason for me to look in a sociology textbook, seeing as basic human knowledge would lead me to that conclusion.

I grew up watching WCW when I was about 8. Don't get on a power trip just because you have an offcr tag. I can post wherever I want.

Seriously, why are you here though? There was no reason for you to express your thoughts here, from what I've seen you are not a wrestling fan and younot an active member of this union, and you are likely not going to post anything in any other topic, and therefore you are not really a valid contributor to WWEv.

WWEMAN101

Wrong move there. Before GWD became inactive, MarkSmith posted there very often. He's definitely a wrestling fan.

I really hope views like this aren't what WWEv has turned to. "You haven't posted here before? Well, your opinion isn't wanted here! Long-time members only!"

Also what's the GWD?Kotenks

My bad, shoulda explained that. GWD is Gamespot Wrestling Discussion, a User-Created Board. It was a lot more smark-ish than WWEv when it was active. Mena, The_Dude, Gary, Zach and some other regulars from GWD decided to make WWEv.

i will lock this if becomes nothing but fighting. i just got on a little bit ago and this was the first i check this thread so i wasn't aware of 3 straight pages of fighting.

this isn't a thread about the moral rights or wrongs of man, this is a thread about the tragedy that happened this week. whether you thnk Chris Benoit is a monster or not, the fact is that his wife, his 7 year old son, and a wrestler people admired are all gone. i appreciate people updating this with every little news bit from the media and keeping us up to date with what is going on in the investigation.

Sorry MarkSmith if you're opinion of my union isn't too highly right now. I apologize.

[QUOTE="WWEMAN101"]

Seriously, why are you here though? There was no reason for you to express your thoughts here, from what I've seen you are not a wrestling fan and younot an active member of this union, and you are likely not going to post anything in any other topic, and therefore you are not really a valid contributor to WWEv.

JML897

Wrong move there. Before GWD became inactive, MarkSmith posted there very often. He's definitely a wrestling fan.

I really hope views like this aren't what WWEv has turned to. "You haven't posted here before? Well, your opinion isn't wanted here! Long-time members only!"

I'm not on a "power-trip," I'm just wondering why he is here. Also, I said "from what I've seen." He showed no signs of being a wrestling fan, all he showed was a passion for showing other people his views on morality. Honestly, how many times has a person's opinions (including my own) been considered invalid simply because they were new? I also never said "he never posted before," I just noted that he will likely leave after the Benoit issue boils over, and he has also showed no signs of sticking around to speak about anything other that this. I'm also surprised that you guys would only reply to that, instead of my other arguements.

EDIT: When I said "Im surprised" I meant that in a "what else is new" sense, just to let yall know.

I just noted that he will likely leave after the Benoit issue boils over, and he has also showed no signs of sticking around to speak about anything other that this.WWEMAN101

if he does that, then that is his choice and it's perfectly fine. an issue like this will most definitely attract members who don't often visit here.

[QUOTE="Kotenks"] Also what's the GWD?JML897

My bad, shoulda explained that. GWD is Gamespot Wrestling Discussion, a User-Created Board. It was a lot more smark-ish than WWEv when it was active. Mena, The_Dude, Gary, Zach and some other regulars from GWD decided to make WWEv.

I remember that place. hbk91 told me to join WWEv there around WM21

You guys are funny. Why is he here? This is the largest wrestling related union on Gamespot and Chris Beniot died. What do you expect? He was making some good points too. A murderer is a murderer.

Oh, and you forgot swimPUNK / Toniofalcon_ on that list. I was a regular ( though I didn't start WWEv) I got runner up on an award based on hating WWE so much. Ofcourse, I think I'd get an award for defending the WWE now. WWEv isn't becoming like this, it's just WWEMAN. I see MarkSmith all of the time on Goose's Garrage ( I lurk becuase I feel too stupid to post) and I don't exactle think he's the one to get in an argument with.

[QUOTE="Kotenks"] Also what's the GWD?JML897

My bad, shoulda explained that. GWD is Gamespot Wrestling Discussion, a User-Created Board. It was a lot more smark-ish than WWEv when it was active. Mena, The_Dude, Gary, Zach and some other regulars from GWD decided to make WWEv.

Damn that just made me realize how long I have been on Gamespot and an active member of WWEv.

I'm surprised people are turning away a new member, who just wants to give his insight.

But now I believe it's my time to give my thoughts. Benoit was of my first few wrestlers that I liked that got me into the WWE, (in 02-03.) He just made me keep watching it, especially during his World Heavyweight Title reign. His multiple US title reigns, and much more. I just couldn't wait to see how good the Punk-Benoit match could get...then he left. It seemed like an "Okay, he'll be back for ECW." Then the reports of him passing away are true. I watched Punk talking about Benoit on RAW and I almost cried, unfortunately. Then these reports of murder...double murder-suicide just...confuse me. I was so overwhelmed I couldn't believe it. Easily one of my favorite wrestlers, a murderer, and kills himself. I find it extremely hard to now recognize him as a great person, but I feel some sympathy from him. It's not anything good though, unfortunately. I'm still mixed on the reaction, but I'm just...still overwhelmed that it's happened so fast, the death, the rumors, most likely-confirmations. And then the ridiculous..or unlikely claims look like they're true.

this is crazy 3 days ago i was watching HardKnocks The Chris Benoit Story an then he goes and kills his wife and kid wtf:xFidel1923

You got it wrong, he killed his wife and kid and the you watched the Hard Knocks DVD.

[QUOTE="Fidel1923"]this is crazy 3 days ago i was watching HardKnocks The Chris Benoit Story an then he goes and kills his wife and kid wtf:xoshane_leagull

You got it wrong, he killed his wife and kid and the you watched the Hard Knocks DVD.

[QUOTE="Mu5uk0"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

MarkSmith

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

oh and here are some quotes for you, they mean nothing to me but you seem to think quoting someone makes you right.

"Murder is born of love, and love attains the greatest intensity in murder" - Octave Mirbea

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus Christ

You think I need to grow up? Pot calling the kettle black.

Moral relativism is a logical fallacy, and you pulling quotes out of context because your little childhood hero is a douchebag is pretty pathetic.

Benoit was never one of my favourites, I never grew up watching him and I only became a fan of his work within the past 2-3 years. I don't have a bias just because he's a wrestler, I have a bias for humanity because I have faith in humanity as a whole. I respect the wrestler in Chris Benoit, not the murderer. How many times do I need to say that? They were clearly two different people.

[QUOTE="MarkSmith"][QUOTE="Mu5uk0"][QUOTE="MarkSmith"]

I got modded on gamefaqs for calling benoit a murderer, and challenging the people who said they still respected him. needless to say, I think the people at gamespot who say they still respect benoit have a lot of growing up to do. Murdering a child is inexcusable.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

Mu5uk0

i think you need to grow up and realise that just because you feel someway about something doesn't make it right. respect the fact that other people have opinions on the matter and leave it at that. all you're doing by saying stupid things like that is provoking an argument that can never be settled.

oh and here are some quotes for you, they mean nothing to me but you seem to think quoting someone makes you right.

"Murder is born of love, and love attains the greatest intensity in murder" - Octave Mirbea

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Jesus Christ

You think I need to grow up? Pot calling the kettle black.

Moral relativism is a logical fallacy, and you pulling quotes out of context because your little childhood hero is a douchebag is pretty pathetic.

Benoit was never one of my favourites, I never grew up watching him and I only became a fan of his work within the past 2-3 years. I don't have a bias just because he's a wrestler, I have a bias for humanity because I have faith in humanity as a whole. I respect the wrestler in Chris Benoit, not the murderer. How many times do I need to say that? They were clearly two different people.

I bet a picture of him as the murderer and one of him as the wrestler would look the same. Are you saying this is some kind of twin conspiracy? (Don't respond to this I'm being a smart ass)

Just wanted to mention something I found kind of funny. Nancy Grace who has her own show on CNN was interviewing Bret Hart about the Benoit tragedy and praised himfor building wrestling and going out on top when he left wrestling. She also pushed the steroid thing (like everyone else in the media) andasked him how badly he thought Benoit took it when he wasdemoted from the Four Horsemen to Raw. FlamesFan2

Wow.

This is completely idiotic even on Nancy Grace's standards.

This was Victoria reaction, from her blog I believe.

Hey All.

"I had planned ..ing off talking about a recent trip to an arena football game, but I would be remiss not to address the Chris Benoit situation. Everyone who knew anything about wrestling knew of his in-ring contributions. I truly don't know what I can say and not get in trouble with the WWE. Anyone who reads my blogs regularly knows how much I love wrestling, and being part of the WWE. But I think what I have to say is more important. His son, Daniel, came to many shows. We bonded. He a was a cute little boy. What Chris did was selfish and hurtful. I fear that him being a superstar in some way glamorizes the situation. That's not what suicide is. It is selfish and hurtful. As long as you have a breath to breathe, you can make change to improve your life. You can talk to family, or friends, or clergy. And if you're not comfortable with any of them, here are two phone numbers for a Suicide and Crisis Hotline. 1-800-784-2433 (1-800-SUICIDE) or 1-800-273-8255 (1-800-273-TALK). They take calls 24/7. You always have options. Maybe someday I'll be able to forgive Chris, but not today.

God Bless Us All, Lisa Marie"