[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Let me put it this way: You don't get something from nothing. When I say that, I mean that something or someone had to create the universe as we know it.Danm_999

Are you aware of the concept of infinite regress? Let me quote it for you:

"an attempt to solve a problem which re-introduced the same problem in the proposed solution. If one continues along the same lines, the initial problem will recur infinitely and will never be solved."

Also, consider the viewpoint of astronomer Fred Hoyle. I'm paraphrasing, but what he said was something like this-- That believing we could exist without intelligent design is tantamount to suggesting that you could get a fully-functional 747 as a result of a hurricane passing through a junkyard that had all the required parts in it.

Now tell, how likely is that?

hartsickdiscipl

That argument is known as Hoyle's fallacy. It's so widely discredited it's actually referred to as a fallacy. To try and invoke it as an argument demonstrates some very poor reasoning.

[QUOTE="A_Falcies_Fancy"][QUOTE="sintygypsy"]

I choose to believe in a God. I choose to disbelieve the type of god found in the bible solely because i fear the church lied and slandered it, possible fabricated it. However, I also choose to keep an open mind that it could very well be possible to be real. Your statement makes no sense what so ever and im not really sure what you are trying to get at. People change their religious views all the time, people convert every day. You couldn't be more wrong.

What I am trying to get at here is that the idea of disbelief without evidence in the slightest is baffling to me. As a human race we know very little about the origins of everything, the universe, hell even our own planet. But some choose to just not believe and possibly doom themselves to the removal of their existence after they die based on these scientific findings? Thats absurd and beyond my comprehension. Why does it have to be one or the other, why can't you just have an open mind and accept that a God may or may not exist, not that it doesnt or does for sure and without a doubt. If you are wrong, you are screwed and you did it to yourself, there is no worse fate than that. All because you couldn't keep an open mind. I feel sorry for those who disbelieve. I feel sorry for anyone who cant keep an open mind and wants to make a swift life altering judgement based on no evidence what so ever and a very primitive knowledge of the universe and origin in general. As a human race, we know almost nothing, we are brand new at this and still learning.

Plzhelpmelearn

[QUOTE="A_Falcies_Fancy"][QUOTE="Barbariser"]

Good to see that you don't understand your own religions. Last I checked, for those "doom the nonbeliever" types, if you don't have a sincere belief in it then you might as well NOT believe. And if you're only labelling yourself one as a safety check, then it can't be a sincere belief.

Also, here's the thing: there are many, many, many religions. The chances of any one of them being the "true belief" is about as high as the chance of you getting struck by lightning. Are you saying that we should radically chance our lifestyles and adhere to the rules of one of those in order to "look presentable" so that on the one-in-a-thousand-chance that we manage to worship the real diety, he/she will hopefully not screw us over for "faking belief"?

sintygypsy

I choose to believe in a God. I choose to disbelieve the type of god found in the bible solely because i fear the church lied and slandered it, possible fabricated it. However, I also choose to keep an open mind that it could very well be possible to be real. Your statement makes no sense what so ever and im not really sure what you are trying to get at. People change their religious views all the time, people convert every day. You couldn't be more wrong.

What I am trying to get at here is that the idea of disbelief without evidence in the slightest is baffling to me. As a human race we know very little about the origins of everything, the universe, hell even our own planet. But some choose to just not believe and possibly doom themselves to the removal of their existence after they die based on these scientific findings? Thats absurd and beyond my comprehension. Why does it have to be one or the other, why can't you just have an open mind and accept that a God may or may not exist, not that it doesnt or does for sure and without a doubt. If you are wrong, you are screwed and you did it to yourself, there is no worse fate than that. All because you couldn't keep an open mind. I feel sorry for those who disbelieve. I feel sorry for anyone who cant keep an open mind and wants to make a swift life altering judgement based on no evidence what so ever and a very primitive knowledge of the universe and origin in general. As a human race, we know almost nothing, we are brand new at this and still learning.

[QUOTE="sintygypsy"]

Why the hell would you want to not believe. That is horribly scary. I choose to believe, those who are religious choose to believe. It's not born into them, you've a choice. You pray to appease God and make him happy. But some of you literally disregard the fact that you could be wrong, and that if you are wrong, you are pretty much screwed. You are literally choosing non existence. That is a mystery to me.

Barbariser

Good to see that you don't understand your own religions. Last I checked, for those "doom the nonbeliever" types, if you don't have a sincere belief in it then you might as well NOT believe. And if you're only labelling yourself one as a safety check, then it can't be a sincere belief.

Also, here's the thing: there are many, many, many religions. The chances of any one of them being the "true belief" is about as high as the chance of you getting struck by lightning. Are you saying that we should radically chance our lifestyles and adhere to the rules of one of those in order to "look presentable" so that on the one-in-a-thousand-chance that we manage to worship the real diety, he/she will hopefully not screw us over for "faking belief"?

[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"][QUOTE="dkdk999"] but of course theres an obvious argument against the "watchmaker" argument wich is that any creator must be more complex than his creation i would love to see someone respond to this argument. I don't really see how this justifies belief without any evidence whatsoever and in my opinion no logical reason to be the case whatsoever.

dkdk999

[QUOTE="dkdk999"][QUOTE="A_Falcies_Fancy"]how about...circles with right angles?hartsickdiscipl

Most of those are not true contradictions when taken in their proper context. Nobody said that the translation from the original manuscript was perfect, either.

[QUOTE="A_Falcies_Fancy"][QUOTE="InEMplease"]

Because you can choose not to act in such a way, while those you mentioned feel they are obliged to.

InEMplease

I'm not attacking him. I'm actually trying to make this discussion focused towards the problems of the T.C., since he is faced with a pretty harsh predicament.

[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]

[QUOTE="Guntrix7"] You don't believe in something others do, and you act superior. That's weak.InEMplease

I don't act any superior than the priests and brothers of religion do. So why am I the bad one?

BTW, I spent 12 years in catholic school. So I do know a bit about this god thing.

Because you can choose not to act in such a way, while those you mentioned feel they are obliged to.