[QUOTE="BlancoBX"]

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]The game was not redesigned as far as I'm aware. It was ported to the Wii, which obviously means running on a different engine, and it had a new control scheme implemented.

And my comment still stands. This has absolutely nothing to do with System Wars exclusives.

Being exclusive isn't a set in stone criterion of being a "Move title" or a "Kinect title." And being Move only or Kinect only isn't either.

You're free to your opinion on the matter though, but I disagree.

If a game makes significant use of Move/Kinect and/or offers it as an complete alternative control scheme then they're Move/Kinect titles. Child of Eden can be called a Kinect title. SOCOM 4 can be listed as a Move title.

Because you're not just using it sporadically to lob a grenade or to walk around cars or to peer around corners.

vadicta

this is exactly what I was getting at this entire time. If you can play through the entire game with only the move wand and navi, and nothing is sacrificed in the gameplay i.e. it doesnt suddenly become on rails, or is just a bonus minigame type game etc etc

you are the only one who has been bringing up "exclusive". I brought up RE4 several times as a quality wii title as well as a quality ps2 GC and PC title. What you are trying to do is discount what the move is capable of by trying to claim some ownage of killzone and socom not being move titles because they can be played with a dualshock as well and are not "exclusive" to move controls.

This whole debate started because you stated that the motion controls wouldnt be as accurate as a controller, and were just a "novelty"..which I disagreed with. I then brought up RE4 which you said was an exception because "it was built from the ground up". And somehow you distorted the discussion about the accuracy of the controls to the game not being an exclusive which is a word I havent used this entire time except when quoting you.

The game can be played through in its entirety, with nothing compromised on the move controller and that makes it a "move title" and can be used in discussions about the accuracy/quality of the motion control devices

[QUOTE="vadicta"]

I was just telling him what made my comment on the controls for RE4 different. Because that game was redesign from the ground up for the Wii. I didn't say it was exclusive. I have a breaker there to show that I changed points. Sorry, I didn't change paragraphs there.

shinrabanshou

And my comment still stands. This has absolutely nothing to do with System Wars exclusives.

Being exclusive isn't a set in stone criterion of being a "Move title" or a "Kinect title." And being Move only or Kinect only isn't either.

You're free to your opinion on the matter though, but I disagree.

If a game makes significant use of Move/Kinect and/or offers it as an complete alternative control scheme then they're Move/Kinect titles. Child of Eden can be called a Kinect title. SOCOM 4 can be listed as a Move title.

Because you're not just using it sporadically to lob a grenade or to walk around cars or to peer around corners.

this is exactly what I was getting at this entire time. If you can play through the entire game with only the move wand and navi, and nothing is sacrificed in the gameplay i.e. it doesnt suddenly become on rails, or is just a bonus minigame type game etc etc

[QUOTE="BlancoBX"]

[QUOTE="vadicta"]

Yeah. I mean, there are lesser versions of games out on all knds of consoles. I belive the version of The Orange Box on the PS3 was buggy and weird. It's still available on it, though. I also think there were issues with the PS3 version of Bayonetta, too. It's still there.

Superior does not equal Exclusive.

vadicta

those examples are totally off. You are comparing multi-plat games with games on the same system. Ive got another situation for you I only own a move controller and camera and no regular controller...can I still play socom and killzone? How can you not count that as a move game just because it can be played with a normal controller too?

because like i said earlier comparing 2 entirely different consoles is not the same as comparing a game with 2 ways to play. So you agree with me about RE4 being a good game does that game count as a quality wii title? So what you are saying here is that if Socom 4 came out just supporting a controller first, and then a year later Socom4 move edition comes out its a move title but its not when its one the same blu ray already?

The control scheme makes the games too different for it to not be a "move title". If the move controller was only used in addition to or supplementing the regular controller in portions of the game, then sure its not a move title since its only being used in a gimmicky way. But when the entire game is controlled by the move controller I dont see how this is not considered a move game just because you can also play it on your ps3 (and only your ps3) with a dualshock

[QUOTE="BlancoBX"]

[QUOTE="vadicta"]

They developed a completely new engine for RE4 on the Wii. That's what makes it different. And despite our opinions on the accuracy behind what they do, there's the one glaring flaw in your argument. What makes an exclusive an exclusive?
For any system the game has to be available on that system and ONLY that system.
So, if you put this into control schemes. The only way a game should be a Move title is if it's available on Move and ONLY on Move.

Once again, "Move Supported" does not equal "Only on Move".

vadicta

so if the games are released and reviewed, and the consensus among fans and critics is that the motion controls are the best way to experience the game, its still not a move title, just because it can be played with a controller too?

those examples are totally off. You are comparing multi-plat games with games on the same system. Ive got another situation for you I only own a move controller and camera and no regular controller...can I still play socom and killzone? How can you not count that as a move game just because it can be played with a normal controller too?

[QUOTE="BlancoBX"]

[QUOTE="thomasward00"]

Thats cool BUT as we have seen on the Wii, most 3rd party developers have not utilized motion controls very well, it's mostly been 1st party Wii titles that have used motion controls to the fullest yet, and lets face the facts neither Sony or Microsoft's first party houses hold a candle to Nintendo's software development houses.

thomasward00

that is definetely true in the case of MS but not so much the case for SONY. The nintendo IPs that are best suited for the motion controls (Metroid, mario cart etc) are good games with good motion controls.

The PS3 and 360 exist off 3rd party titles, neither company has the talent or firepower to carry a console all on it's own.

Nintendo can carry it's own consoles, both home and portable with in house software alone.

good point about them being able to carry the console on their own. But the fact that 3rd parties dont release wii games with good motion control doesnt mean it will be the same with the move. Nintendo has had terrible 3rd party support in general the past 2 generations, and the N64 although better than the wii and GC didnt have the greatest third party support either. It seems the stance that 3rd parties have with nintendo (or is it nintendo with 3rd parties) is much different than with SONY or MS.

and for your other point, im not sure if you are insinuating that 3rd parties have trouble utilizing the motion controls well or if they just decide not to so they can make a quick profit with gimmicky controls

[QUOTE="BlancoBX"]

[QUOTE="vadicta"]

A played the Wii Edition of RE4 and I enjoyed it quite a bit. And yes, I've played several shooters with a keyboard and mouse. I find it uncomfortable. I played through FEAR once with it, then bought a gamepad for my other three playthroughs. The difference is that RE4: Wii Edition was tailor made for that control scheme. These games will not be and I have doubts behind the quality in which these features will be implemented in comparison to the traditional way. And why do you keep bringing up keyboard and mouse? It really has nothing to do with this.

vadicta

so RE4 on the gamecube, ps2 and PC dont exist? It wasnt "tailor" made it was ported to the Wii with motion controls added into it. And I brought up KB&M because you were harping on move not being able to be more accurate than a controller, when a controller is the least accurate way to control FPS and TPS and has been since the beginning. and once again I dont see how moving two analog sticks with your thumbs to aim can be more accurate than simply pointing to what you want to shoot (which is why every console FPS and TPS have some form of auto-aim or auto assist)

so if the games are released and reviewed, and the consensus among fans and critics is that the motion controls are the best way to experience the game, its still not a move title, just because it can be played with a controller too?

[QUOTE="BlancoBX"]

[QUOTE="vadicta"]
Well, I was under the impression it was a different game, but I could be wrong there.

And I just doubt that the novelty of playing with motion controls will have the longevity to last the whole game or have the accuracy to replace using a controler. And the game's quality won't be knocked for that, because of the controler option, which is why it should count as a Move title. I don't think "Move Supported," and "Made for Move" are the same thing. I think the only games that should count are the games made for it.

vadicta

I love my consoles, have loved them for years and love my analog sticks. But for games such as socom and killzone playing with a controller is by far the worst in regards to accuracy. Have you ever played a FPS or TPS with a keyboard or mouse? Have you ever played RE4 wii edition? Metroid? How can moving two sticks to aim be less accurate than simply pointing at what you want to shoot?

so RE4 on the gamecube, ps2 and PC dont exist? It wasnt "tailor" made it was ported to the Wii with motion controls added into it. And I brought up KB&M because you were harping on move not being able to be more accurate than a controller, when a controller is the least accurate way to control FPS and TPS and has been since the beginning. and once again I dont see how moving two analog sticks with your thumbs to aim can be more accurate than simply pointing to what you want to shoot (which is why every console FPS and TPS have some form of auto-aim or auto assist)

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

[QUOTE="vadicta"]

I'm just giving you my standards and I doubt patches made to RE5 and Heavy Rain will be equivalent to a game hand-crafted for the system and I don't think it should be counted. And I also doubt that heavily weighted franchises like SOCOM 4 and Killzone 3 will stray too far into motion controls and alienate their audiences, only leaving gimmicks for people who want it.
And I don't know why you're arguing the Forza game I left on the Kinect. That's not Forza 4, that's a Kinect-specific title.

vadicta

Move is a full alternative control scheme for SOCOM 4 and Killzone 3.

I love my consoles, have loved them for years and love my analog sticks. But for games such as socom and killzone playing with a controller is by far the worst in regards to accuracy. Have you ever played a FPS or TPS with a keyboard or mouse? Have you ever played RE4 wii edition? Metroid? How can moving two sticks to aim be less accurate than simply pointing at what you want to shoot?

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

[QUOTE="vadicta"]
Okay, uhm, first Gun Loco doesn't use Kinect at all. I don't know why it's up there. And I removed Child of Eden from the list I made. I'm not making a fanboy argument here. I'm just saying that games not built for these devices shouldn't count as games for these devices. It's not rocket-science and its not the wrong way to think about it.

vadicta

Games like Heavy Rain have had resources put into creating an alternative control scheme, which you can play the entire game with. Yet, a "gimmicky" implementation of Kinect in a Forza title makes it a Kinect game?

The implementation for the Kinect in games shown at TGS hasn't be shown at all, so assuming they'll be "hardcore" at all in the first place is a lot, let alone assuming that they'll be less of a "gimmick" than Move implementation in Killzone 3.

how is an entire control scheme a gimmick? Is playing with a mouse and keyboard a gimmick because handheld controllers came first?

[QUOTE="gamerfan85"]

[QUOTE="thomasward00"]

There will still be very, very few move or Kinect specific games.

thomasward00

As far as I'm concerned there don't need to be. I want to see subtle, limited integration in mainstream games (when it's appropriate and doesn't feel shoehorned in). Really I just like it for being an HD Wii at this point and that's enough for the first year.

Thats cool BUT as we have seen on the Wii, most 3rd party developers have not utilized motion controls very well, it's mostly been 1st party Wii titles that have used motion controls to the fullest yet, and lets face the facts neither Sony or Microsoft's first party houses hold a candle to Nintendo's software development houses.

that is definetely true in the case of MS but not so much the case for SONY. The nintendo IPs that are best suited for the motion controls (Metroid, mario cart etc) are good games with good motion controls.