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Bread_or_Decide

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#1 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

This is truly a great time. After tomorrow the game will never be a secret again. Its mysteries will be revealed to those of us who take the journey. I will enjoy this one moment where a little mystery still existed in this world.

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#2 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@pc_rocks said:
@Jag85 said:
@pc_rocks said:
@Jag85 said:

As general rule of thumb, a work should be reviewed according to the standards of its own genre, not by the standards of other genres. On one end of the spectrum, you have action games, which should be judged mainly on their action gameplay. On the other end of the spectrum, you have visual novels, which should be judged mainly on their writing. Then you have genres like adventure games, RPGs, strategy games, sports games, simulators, action-adventures, etc. When reviewing different genres, reviewers judge them according to different sets of criteria.

In the case of Death Stranding, reviewers are presented with a game that doesn't fit neatly into any particular genre. It's not clear what the game's genre is, whether it's a delivery management simulator, survival game, adventure game, cinematic movie game, parcel delivery simulator, fetch-quest simulator, open-world game, bridge-building game, etc. Whatever it is, it seems apparent that DS is not an action-oriented game. So it wouldn't make sense to judge it according to action game standards. It doesn't make sense to criticize a game for a lack of action when it's not even trying to be an action-oriented game.

Much of the gameplay appears to be about things like delivery management, survival mechanics, building bridges, online communication, virtual social media, and yes, fetch quests. Many reviews praised the delivery management system and survival mechanics, and found them surprisingly engaging. They also praised the story, cinematics and world-building. At the same time, a number of reviewers expressed disappointment and/or frustration at the lack of action, which is what they've come to expect from a Kojima game, but many of them logically determined that it shouldn't be a deal-breaker because it's not trying to be an action-oriented game in the first place. And most ended up finding the overall experience enjoyable.

In other words, there is no conspiracy. Reviewers are simply doing their jobs. They praised what the game does well (e.g. delivery management, survival mechanics, story, cinematics, world-building) and mentioned what it lacks (i.e. lack of action), with most focusing on what the game is actually about (not the action) and finding the overall experience enjoyable. Some folks need to get over themselves and stop peddling conspiracy theories, over a game that hasn't even come out yet. Conspiracy theories are just getting tired and boring now.

You sure about that? Because if I remember correctly Kojima called DS an action game like Uncharted when it was first announced.

...I was waiting for someone to mention that. Yes, Kojima did call it an "action game". And that's where the problem lies. Judging from the reviews, there's barely much action in the game. He marketed the game as something that it clearly isn't. Which isn't unusual for Kojima, who's pulled similar tricks before, e.g. hiding Raiden's existence from MGS2 promos, or initially hiding his own role as the director of MGS4 ("Alan Smithee") and MGSV ("Joakim Mogren").

So, now are we defending 'false marketing'? Pretty sure if another company/studio/dev did this y'all will be giving them crap. How many times we have gone over lootboxes introduced to the game after being promised not to?

Again, Kojima's previous examples of Raiden, MGS4, PP etc. are not the same thing. You do know that, these two can't be equated.

You know it as well , none of you will be doing these mental gymnastics if DS was by some other dev.

You keep moving the goal post.

Good grief.

I went back and rewatched all the trailers shown over the last three years it's actually really impressive that the game's concept and gameplay is shown even in the first few trailers. Kojima never hid anything and I don't remember anyone saying that he was hiding some sort of amazing gameplay.

Heck, the biggest complaint is nobody knew what the game was or what the gameplay was going to be like. And yet, it was there all along, right in our faces. Hiking and delivery with survival elements.

The game never marketed itself as anything else.

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#3 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@Netret0120 said:

Anyone gotten the game early?

Would love to hear some user reviews before deciding to get this game

Will have mine tomorrow at 9pm. I will be MIA to avoid spoilers but will return when I'm done with the game.

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#5 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@Jag85 said:
@pc_rocks said:
@Jag85 said:

As general rule of thumb, a work should be reviewed according to the standards of its own genre, not by the standards of other genres. On one end of the spectrum, you have action games, which should be judged mainly on their action gameplay. On the other end of the spectrum, you have visual novels, which should be judged mainly on their writing. Then you have genres like adventure games, RPGs, strategy games, sports games, simulators, action-adventures, etc. When reviewing different genres, reviewers judge them according to different sets of criteria.

In the case of Death Stranding, reviewers are presented with a game that doesn't fit neatly into any particular genre. It's not clear what the game's genre is, whether it's a delivery management simulator, survival game, adventure game, cinematic movie game, parcel delivery simulator, fetch-quest simulator, open-world game, bridge-building game, etc. Whatever it is, it seems apparent that DS is not an action-oriented game. So it wouldn't make sense to judge it according to action game standards. It doesn't make sense to criticize a game for a lack of action when it's not even trying to be an action-oriented game.

Much of the gameplay appears to be about things like delivery management, survival mechanics, building bridges, online communication, virtual social media, and yes, fetch quests. Many reviews praised the delivery management system and survival mechanics, and found them surprisingly engaging. They also praised the story, cinematics and world-building. At the same time, a number of reviewers expressed disappointment and/or frustration at the lack of action, which is what they've come to expect from a Kojima game, but many of them logically determined that it shouldn't be a deal-breaker because it's not trying to be an action-oriented game in the first place. And most ended up finding the overall experience enjoyable.

In other words, there is no conspiracy. Reviewers are simply doing their jobs. They praised what the game does well (e.g. delivery management, survival mechanics, story, cinematics, world-building) and mentioned what it lacks (i.e. lack of action), with most focusing on what the game is actually about (not the action) and finding the overall experience enjoyable. Some folks need to get over themselves and stop peddling conspiracy theories, over a game that hasn't even come out yet. Conspiracy theories are just getting tired and boring now.

You sure about that? Because if I remember correctly Kojima called DS an action game like Uncharted when it was first announced.

...I was waiting for someone to mention that. Yes, Kojima did call it an "action game". And that's where the problem lies. Judging from the reviews, there's barely much action in the game. He marketed the game as something that it clearly isn't. Which isn't unusual for Kojima, who's pulled similar tricks before, e.g. hiding Raiden's existence from MGS2 promos, or initially hiding his own role as the director of MGS4 ("Alan Smithee") and MGSV ("Joakim Mogren").

Can we get a legit quote for when Kojima called it an action game?

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#6 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@pc_rocks: @pc_rocks: The teaser trailer had a naked man on a beach holding a baby.

How did you get action game from that?

Subsequent trailers showed him walking and hiking.

How did you get action game from that?

And we got ONE scene with a gun in the gameplay reveal trailer.

So tell me where Kojima promised an action game. Proof please.

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#7 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

"After years of wondering what Death Stranding actually is, I can finally report that it’s a game composed entirely of fetch quests. Forty-plus hours of that may sound like torture, but shockingly, it’s actually pretty damn fun once it gets out of its own way."

Actually pretty damn fun.

LIAR.

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#8 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts
@uninspiredcup said:
@Jag85 said:

@uninspiredcup: In the game industry, it's hard to stay relevant for long. A star developer in one generation often gets forgotten in the next gen. And then gamers jump on them while they're down, e.g. John Romero, Peter Molyneux, Tomonobu Itagaki, Cliffy B, Yu Suzuki, etc. That's gamers for you.

True enough, though of those listed. namely John Romero, Cliffy B and Peter Molyneux they did propel it with grating personalities.

Peter Molyneux is do still had mad respect for, from the start his appeal was his big-idea eccentric personality that resulted in out-of-the-box games that got people Sean Cooper into the industry to develop Syndicate. He practically shaped the landscape.

Unfortunately that early days 80-90's "we can do anything mentality" home-brew computer gaming doesn't work so well when it involves a social media ripples and games with far higher budgets, especially if your using your own audiences money. Put that down to more the world around him changing than anything out of character.

John Romero and Cliffy B it sort of did just come across more as arrogance imo, cut from the same cloth.

Yu Suzuki, I think again probably is a Peter Molyneux situation where it's an old hand in a modern world.

Don't forget Ken Levine. Fell off the earth after Bioshock Infinite.

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#9 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

Some quotes I love from the kotaku review.

---

The actual game is a fantastic mess.

But is it good, Heather? Yes, friends. I love it.

It is breathtaking in scope, consistently intelligent in design, and beautiful to behold. It is a heaping pile of pretentious nonsense. It is a game in which characters drop overwrought interpretations of Kōbō Abe quotes. Its most recurring visual motif is a not-so-subtle gesture towards Thomas Pynchon’s Gravity’s Rainbow. It progresses not with the quiet stroke of a pen but with the pounding crash of a hammer. “I brought you a metaphor,” one of the characters says late in the game. It is stupid, and obvious, and perfect.

----

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#10  Edited By Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@i_p_daily: You may not like it but there are plenty of experiences elevated by the charm and thought put into it by its creator. You can call it “art BS” all you want. Heck even the Mona Lisa has its critics. You’re not the first to be offended by someones creation and you won’t be the last.

Hell, your reaction is so typical it’s almost boring.

Deadly premonition is frustrating at every turn and that game is a 9/10 for me. I can also say the same about Killer 7.

You keep trying to quantify the way others enjoy things. You should quit while your behind.