[QUOTE="syorks"][QUOTE="miracleriver"][QUOTE="syorks"][QUOTE="miracleriver"][QUOTE="syorks"][QUOTE="miracleriver"][QUOTE="syorks"][QUOTE="ProudLarry"][QUOTE="syorks"][QUOTE="miracleriver"] I've been reading through this thread and I feel the need to point something out. Several people are trying to attack the validity of evolutionary theory, but let's not forget what the alternative they're proposing is.
Namely, that approximately 6000 years ago an invisible old man in the sky with a white beard and magic powers just *poofed* the earth and the universe into existence. He then proceeded to take a clump of DIRT and turned it into a man. He then took out one of the man's ribs and turned it into a woman.
After he created these people, he told them not to eat the magic apple in the magic garden where they lived, but of course they did because the TALKING SNAKE told them to. So the invisible old man in the sky got pissed off and kicked these two people out of his magic garden. These two people then proceeded to populate the entire planet (while keeping a careful eye out for dinosaurs because they lived at the same time)
My point being, you're in no position to critcize valid scientific facts. :P
sSubZerOo
Wow that has to be the most secular and stupid argument i've ever heard about creation. thats not even what happened. Genesis is completely different than that.
Explain how Genesis is all that different.
You want to know all the differences then here they all are.
First the Bible never states how old the earth is. 6,000 years is just the age if the word day actually means day but the word for day in hebrew has a few other definitions with different time spans from 1 day to an almost infinite amount of time. During the translation they had to choose a word that they could use so they chose day. Second where did you possibly get the idea god is an invisible old man. He is just a spiritual presence with no actual physical form. He is the ultimate power. Third why does it make more sence to say life came from nothing more than life was created by an all powerful being. I'd rather have my oldest possible form be dirt then nothing which is what you believe in. Fourth God gave man free will so to actually have free will he gave us the choice between sin which is what the eating of the fruit was and being pure and holy. he was giving us free will but it should have been an easy choice. I mena would u rather have fruit or paradise.Fifth why did you say everything was "magic". Honestly its just a stupid word that was completely useless. nothing was magic. Sixth why couldn't 2 people populate the entire earth. if Eve produced 10 kids during her entire lifetime which is possible and those kids each had ten and so on there could be hundreds of thousands of people within a thousand years. Seventh how do u explain why there are dozens of cave drawings with people riding and interacting with dinosaurs not to mention the fottprints of man and dinosaurs walking with each other.
In my personal opinion Genesis and what he wrote was full of lies and misconceptions and differences.
Lets take this one point at a time.
First, most fundamentalist evangelicals try to claim that the earth is only 6-10000 years old based on geneolagies in Genesis, i.e. the so-and-so begat so-and-so passages.
As for the "invisible old man" thing, there are passages in the bible that talk about god having a white beard and white robe and sitting on a gold throne, etc. (and you can't see him, so "invisible") not to mention the whole created in his image thing
as for the whole god gave man free will sin argument...wha?!?!
next, I said magic because all these things violate just about every law of physics known to man, hence "magic"
You do know that inbreeding causes severe retardation and birth defects right? not to mention the fact that I doubt 6000 years is long enough for 2 people to produce 6 billion people ( now Im not entirely sure of this, but Im not about to try and do the math. And remember the entire earth was wiped out in noahs flood so they had to start all over again.)
I have no idea what you're talking about with the people riding dinosaurs in cave paintings.
And finally, you still haven't answered my question as to what a "secular argument" is.
ok I'll deal with each one by itself. the geneolgies of Genesis isn't a timeline of the earth or can be used as one. I explained to you the reason why the earth is not necessarily 6,000 years old.only some Christians believe in it, it doesn't mean every Christian does.
I don't believe that it ever says in the Chrisian bible that God had a physical description since He isn't physical.The gold throne and etc is just trying to describe something that really indescribavle because its so good. Created in his image only means that we have a spirit and soul.Since God is a spirit then if he created us like Him then we also have spirits.
Free will is choice. he needed to give us the choice of sin or goodness so we could fully have free will. if He didn't give us the chance to sin then we really wouldn't be free.
Magic or Miracles. i realy can't respond to that since its just different words.
Inbreeding didn't cause any problems back then since man was still young without any disease or death yet. Your lucky since the math and population has already been done for you. Here's the link: http://www.ldolphin.org/pickett.html
Now the dinosaurs and man coexistence here are some links to proof. Some of its better than others.
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dino-fossils.htm
http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm
http://www.exchangedlife.com/Creation/dinosaurs.shtml
And a secular argument is an argument that is of the world. A weak argument used to disprove God but really it can always be explained. Thats the best way i can explain it.
I can't respond to the first part of your post since you're just arguing christian philosophy, and requires accepting the bible as fact in the first place. Although there'e no way I'm going to accept your argument about people not being subject to disease and normal genetic processes without a ton of concrete evidence.
As for your links, all of them are to evangelical propaganda websites. None of them are part of the LEGITIMATE scientific community.
And finally, I never said that I was trying to diprove god. I was simply pointing out the fact that the people who are trying to debunk evolutionary theory are trying to push a much more ridiculous explanation of where humans came from i.e. the book of genesis, which is a story written at a time in history when humanity had a very primitive understanding of the natural world and so they made up stories to try and explain it. Nowadays, our knowledge of how nature operates has advanced tremendously, and these primitive stories can no longer be taken seriously by any rational person.
Those websites are all legitimate. If u won't accept those then i can't accept any websites that support evolution. its still proof no matter who writes it.
BHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You think that MAN AND DINOSAURS co-existed.. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA I am sorry but I really question your intelligence... People who have STUDIED in multiple fields for their entire lives from geology, paliotology, gentics etc etc, have found conclusive evidence that the oldest man related creature DATES NO WHERE CLOSE to the dinosaurs.. You have been watching too much flinstones.. Why should we listen to you when you give bias websites of Christian sites that are extremely bias not to mention UNEDUCATED WHEN IT IS COMPARED TO THE SCIENCE COMMUNITY.. This relaly shows your dillusional.. GIVE REAL NON BIAS SCIENTIFIC WEB SITES, oh thats right tehre ARE NONE because tehse EDUCATED people who go through the most rigerous education out there and who do thousands of hours of research have shown that dinosaurs are far older then man..
Honestly it is quite pathetic how much you believe this.
T-rex > Human 
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