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Free_Marxet

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#1 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="Free_Marxet"] anti-capitalism is extremely typical in the west. as describes by ludwig von mises in "man, the economy and the state" its really not uncommon to find people to be rather ignorant of what capitalism means, or how the economic laws(not government laws) actually benefit humanity I think you dont understand the subject were talking about because ive described completely unregulated free markets, and agorism and you thought i was talking about labor laws. Im not trying to make fun of you, i just think you should read some new ideas. at the very least, it will be interesting to you. Check this out www.mises.org You should also check out Agorism, which expands(or fixes) upon Marx's idea of a class struggle, and brings in new ideas of counter-economics.

I knew you weren't talking about labour laws - I'm saying free markets lack labour laws - which in turn degenerates the country into corporatism, and thus the free market is flawed. The subject is free market, and I'm telling you how it's flawed. It's quite simply really. And I already read the first article in that site, I can't read the whole site in one sitting. But I already disagree with it.

corporatism is the same thing as economic fascism, its when big business and government go hand in hand. Free markets without the existence of government cant turn into corporatism. Well, if you refuse to read things, its no wonder you have the views you do. Especially considering the false definition of corporatism and believing that unregulated capitalism meant labor laws. as described by you: What you are describing (a capitalist country with worker protection) is NOT a free market, because it has government intervention, labour unions, minimum wage and the right to strike. That is not a free market.
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#2 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
[QUOTE="Free_Marxet"][QUOTE="Famiking"] Who's more immoral, the government that allows it to happen, or the multinationals that actually carry out the evil deeds?And wouldn't labour laws be anti-capitalist? ;)Famiking
Im definitely not advocating labor laws of any kind, and that is very clear. big business and government are largely the same things, because they play such important roles in each others existence. If these big businesses didnt get government support in the first place (especially in the third world nations) they would have to follow what people actually pay them for, which would typically be bad news for huge corporations seeing as they often get tax dollars

People pay them for making cars, which is what GM was doing, now they don't want cars and GM is going down the toilet. And yeah, it's sad we give handouts to companies like that, we should nationalize them instead, and not just in the short-term either.

I fail to see how nationalization would benefit anyone. nobody wanted gm cars, why would we need our tax dollars going to them?
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#3 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="Free_Marxet"][QUOTE="Famiking"] Labour laws are anti-capitalism. It's NOT the government that gives people 2 cents a day wages, it's the company that hires the people. It's the government that lets them. The government lets them because of the FREE MARKET - an unregulated market with no government intervention. What you are describing (a capitalist country with worker protection) is NOT a free market, because it has government intervention, labour unions, minimum wage and the right to strike. That is not a free market.

I am completely 100% against labor laws. As demonstrated by the views ive expressed. It would probably benefit you to expand you political theory outside the typical.

I'm pretty sure anti-capitalist is not in any way "typical" in the West. What makes you think I'm completely ignorant about the subject? :| I'm pretty sure all of us here have been introduced to it at least once. There's nothing "fresh" or "new" about it at all.

anti-capitalism is extremely typical in the west. as describes by ludwig von mises in "man, the economy and the state" its really not uncommon to find people to be rather ignorant of what capitalism means, or how the economic laws(not government laws) actually benefit humanity I think you dont understand the subject were talking about because ive described completely unregulated free markets, and agorism and you thought i was talking about labor laws. Im not trying to make fun of you, i just think you should read some new ideas. at the very least, it will be interesting to you. Check this out www.mises.org You should also check out Agorism, which expands(or fixes) upon Marx's idea of a class struggle, and brings in new ideas of counter-economics.
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#4 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="twogirlz"]And I say this with a :) Cause the Netherlands are Neutral, and all drugs are legal. There isn't even a drinking age. You can practice any religion you want, and it uses an open economy. I'm definatley moving here, screw the backwards Republican liarsjointed

Wow, I guess you don't know what Liberal means.

That's a True Conservative/Libertarian country if it's actually what you described. Free market and you can do anything you want as long as you don't harm anyone or obstruct them from doing the same.

Liberals believe it's alright for the government to control your life and the economy.

Seems like YOU don't know what liberal means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

"Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity", that's an exact description of how the Dutch are trying to structure their government.

liberal has historically meant free markets and individual liberty, what hes talking about is classical liberalism which currently goes by the name libertarianism.
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#5 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="Free_Marxet"] if we lived in a society with fully unregulated capitalism, voting would be irrelevant to pretty much everyone. youre confusing the free market with government. the two really dont get along well at all, one advocates individual power, the other elitist power based upon exploitation. www.mises.org check that out, its a fresh perspective.

Labour laws are anti-capitalism. It's NOT the government that gives people 2 cents a day wages, it's the company that hires the people. It's the government that lets them. The government lets them because of the FREE MARKET - an unregulated market with no government intervention. What you are describing (a capitalist country with worker protection) is NOT a free market, because it has government intervention, labour unions, minimum wage and the right to strike. That is not a free market.

I am completely 100% against labor laws. As demonstrated by the views ive expressed. It would probably benefit you to expand you political theory outside the typical.
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#6 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts

[QUOTE="Free_Marxet"] its not that the free market turns into corporatism, its that governments support it and turn it into corporatism by the exploitative and abusive practices we call politics and/or democracy. Multinationals couldnt do those things without corrupt government first and foremost. its more of a government problem than a business one.Famiking

Who's more immoral, the government that allows it to happen, or the multinationals that actually carry out the evil deeds?

And wouldn't labour laws be anti-capitalist? ;)

Im definitely not advocating labor laws of any kind, and that is very clear. big business and government are largely the same things, because they play such important roles in each others existence. If these big businesses didnt get government support in the first place (especially in the third world nations) they would have to follow what people actually pay them for, which would typically be bad news for huge corporations seeing as they often get tax dollars
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#7 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="jointed"] Nah, it's not at all like that. Sure, the thought of cameras on public property can be a little unsettling, but if you use rational thinking, it's not a big deal. It's like the cameras in banks or supermarkets, without security guards. And they're only positioned on busy streets and squares. jointed

You must trust your government implicitely. Governments only tell you what they want you to hear.

Sure, and this is exactly why people should research the facts themselves.

I dont think that really ends up happening, like ever... I really dont want to trust my fate to the rest of society
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#8 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]

Well, that's exactly it; as long as we've got a reasonable and moderate government, it's not a worry at all, but it is setting a bit of a scary precedent as regards privacy.

According to Wikipedia "In 2007, the UK watchdog CameraWatch claimed that the majority of CCTV cameras in the UK are operated illegally or are in breach of privacy guidelines."

It's probably not a massive infringement in most cases, but it goes to show how easily and unconsciously we waive our liberties.

LJS9502_basic

Erosion of liberties starts slow and everyone accepts them at face value.

im not exactly a fan of marilyn manson, but his quote "the weak ones are there to justify the strong" always made a lot of sense to me, and i think it really explains how the erosion of liberties take place.
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#9 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"] It's actually worryingly close to Orwell's vision. In some places, CCTV cameras can also be used to relay speech via a speaker on the camera.LJS9502_basic

Nah, it's not at all like that. Sure, the thought of cameras on public property can be a little unsettling, but if you use rational thinking, it's not a big deal. It's like the cameras in banks or supermarkets, without security guards. And they're only positioned on busy streets and squares.

You must trust your government implicitely. Governments only tell you what they want you to hear.

this is true. but, we in america have a lot of surveillance as well especially in big cities.
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#10 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
[QUOTE="Famiking"][QUOTE="Free_Marxet"] His first term was very debatable. But te government has considerable control over the influence of media. most news networks have ties to political parties. Depends on the conservative youre talking about, I hope youre not saying im conservative?

Hmm - another problem with capitalism, vote buying :D No - I don't think you're a conservative, wanting the war on drugs to end being the hint.

if we lived in a society with fully unregulated capitalism, voting would be irrelevant to pretty much everyone. youre confusing the free market with government. the two really dont get along well at all, one advocates individual power, the other elitist power based upon exploitation. www.mises.org check that out, its a fresh perspective.