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KC_Hokie

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#1 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

@TacticalDesire said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@TacticalDesire said:

@bigfootpart2 said:

@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:

College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.

College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.

This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.

In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.

Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...

You have to pay them back. Even if you declare most types of bankruptcy you have to pay it back. If you die, a member of your family has to pay it back.

You basically have to become a homeless person or a ward of the state not to pay it back.

You guys are confusing student loans with financial aid, which is mostly discussed in the form of grant money that all elite universities give out to pretty much anyone who can't afford to come there-provided they meet their qualifications and are accepted.

That is money that is often $50-60k a year and does not have to be repaid.

You're the one that got confused. The conversation was about loans not grants.

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#2 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

@TacticalDesire said:

@bigfootpart2 said:

@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:

College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.

College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.

This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.

In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.

Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...

You have to pay them back. Even if you declare most types of bankruptcy you have to pay it back. If you die, a member of your family has to pay it back.

You basically have to become a homeless person or a ward of the state not to pay it back.

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KC_Hokie

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#3 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

@one_plum said:

Recession sucks for most people, but young adults are the ones who took the worst hits. Things might get better when boomers eventually retire.

The recession has been over for several years now. However, the so called 'recovery' has been pathetic.

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#4 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

I'm a classical liberal which is center-right in most countries.

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#5  Edited By KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

@BeardMaster said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@BeardMaster said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@XBOunity said:

I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?

Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.

And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.

When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.

Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.

What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.

Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.

To some extent yes, but its a side effect of a net positive. Having a better educated workforce is a good thing, as is better access to higher education.

The issue is we are letting companies reap the benefits and drive down wages while increasing qualifications for positions rather than forcing them to pay more, for better educated labor.

Not sure I agree with you. Percentage of Americans in the workforce is at a 30 year low. So all that money the government throws at education isn't working.

Scores haven't gone up since the huge increase in spending over time. Percentage of Americans in workforce is way down. American salaries are flat.

I don't see government heavily involved financially in education as helping much at all. I would even argue big government is hurting education with this 'everyone needs to go to college' mentality.

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#6  Edited By KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

@bigfootpart2 said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@bigfootpart2 said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@BeardMaster said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@XBOunity said:

I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?

Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.

And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.

When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.

Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.

What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.

Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.

The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world.

I couldn't disagree more. In those countries you are told early on if you are going to university or trade school. You find out early on in high school what your next type of school is.

And before the government got involved tuitions were low. For example, in 1940 it was only $450 for tuition for Yale. That's only $7,200 in today's money with today's tuition at Yale being ten times that.

What happened between 1940 and today? Government loan programs started up in the 1950s and are out of control today. Student loan inflation is simply crazy.

That's how it should be. Not everyone is cut out to go to college. It's mean only for the best and brightest, otherwise it cheapens the value of a college degree.

In the US, it's getting to the point where any idiot can get into college. Those for-profit schools like Devry and University of Phoenix are good examples of everything that's wrong with higher education in the US. They're ungodly expensive and they'll take anyone.

Oh I agree not everyone should go to college and there should be other options. I just don't like the idea of government getting involved and telling you where you go next. Government needs to get out of education not get deeper into it.

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#7  Edited By KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

@bigfootpart2 said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@BeardMaster said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@XBOunity said:

I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?

Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.

And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.

When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.

Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.

What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.

Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.

The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world.

I couldn't disagree more. In those countries you are told early on if you are going to university or trade school. You find out early on in high school what your next type of school is.

And before the government got involved tuitions were low. For example, in 1940 it was only $450 for tuition for Yale. That's only $7,200 in today's money with today's tuition at Yale being ten times that.

What happened between 1940 and today? Government loan programs started up in the 1950s and are out of control today. Student loan inflation is simply crazy.

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#8 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@mattbbpl said:

@HOKIE_KC said:

It's estimated that 130 million will lose their plan in the end. Businesses got an extra year so those employees getting dropped haven't even hit the system yet.

Epic failure.

I'm more than a little curious where you got the estimate that greater than 1/2 of insured Americans will lose their policies.

Some guy is pretending to be me as a joke or something but is unknowingly right here.

"When ObamaCare is fully implemented, Conover finds, an estimated 129 million people — that's 68% of the 189 million Americans with private health coverage — could lose their previous health coverage due to a combination of factors including the cancellations of existing plans as well as changes and "improvements" to existing coverage that will be required under the new health care law."

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/110513-678060-129-million-will-lose-their-health-care-plans.htm#ixzz2kUfGUZiV

That's awfully misleading phrasing:

“Bottom line: of the 189 million Americans with private health insurance coverage, I estimate that if Obamacare is fully implemented, at least 129 million (68 percent) will not be able to keep their previous health care plan either because they already have lost or will lose that coverage by the end of 2014,” he said in an email. ”But of these, ‘only’ the 18 to 50 million will literally lose coverage, i.e., have their plans entirely taken away. This includes 9.2-15.4 million in the non-group market and 9-35 million in the employer-based market. The rest will retain their old plans but have to pay higher rates for Obamacare-mandated bells and whistles.”

When you can't keep your current plan because Obamacare forces modifications to your current plan.....you lose that plan. And those plans with those unwanted additions cost that person more.

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#9 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

Climate has changed on Earth for millions of years. Not sure why anyone would think humans are all of a sudden responsible for mother nature.

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#10  Edited By KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts

@BeardMaster said:

@KC_Hokie said:

@XBOunity said:

I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?

Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.

And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.

When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.

Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.

What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.

Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.