Yeah proof is stupid who needs that....bsman00

Standard of proof. Not merely proof. I'm not going to repeat what I've said because it's quite clear. Waiting on you.

Why? Because I feel the Christianity threatens me and my beliefs and therefore, they don't deserve my love. lexika

i think that having over 6 billion people on the planet currently and over 200,000 years of history (so says wiki) and not one person has ever been able to obtain ANY proof of the supernatural is proof enough we have cameras in so many places nowadays and can see almost anything on this earth if one were so inclined, and yet no GHOST or super natural whatevers have ever been caught on camera ("they dont appear because of magic") and you know why you never hear of a ghost in a public area? its because the supernatural is ********* how convenient ghouls and ghosts only appear in dark, secluded areas. and you never see someone cure the blind with their hands outside of TVi-rock-socks

Also, I need to say something about the intent of this thread. There is no point posting if you're just going to say I'm not a Christian and nothing would convince you, unless you say why, because then people can interact with your reasons for non-belief. Then we can have a discussion, which is the point of a forum.

Also for the guy looking for reasons how the bibles inconsistant read Issiah 17:1 It says damascus will become a heap of ruins, Ironically Damascus is one of the oldest contiuosly inhabited cities on earth.

muff07

The prophets use figurative and hyperbolic language to predict literal judgments. This verse would indicate the Damascus of his day would lose its political power. Indeed, verse 3 says "The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim, and royal power from Damascus; the remnant of Aram will be like the glory of the Israelites,' declares the LORD Almighty." Read the verse in context next time. Anyway, like I said, this kind of thing isn't worth pursuing much because contradictions in a document don't automatically discount it as having accurate history in it.

Historical events aren't supernatural. There is no proof in history that the supernatural exists.guynamedbilly

Mere assertion. Reasons to back up that assertion?

Why would you put the same criteria on the supernatural as you would the natural?

Okay, this is pretty simple. The first Christians claimed Jesus rose from the dead in real life (in history). Not spiritually, not in their minds, hearts, or whatever. How else are do you think they're supposed to show that this happened to future generations? We know of other historical events because people wrote about them.

[QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]I was asking why you would respond that way even if you accepted it's validity._Tobli_

Well that is because it's not in my nature to do those sorts of things, and the fact that it is Yaweh makes the prospect that much less appealing.

http://www.evilbible.com

Yeah, it's not in anyone's nature to worship God. It's called total depravity. I will deal with some of the website's claims, but I must say that website's claims are atrociously dumb and they obviously haven't done their research on the Ancient Near East, which is required before making judgments on the morality in the OT. So which claim of it would you like me to talk about first?

Nothing could persuade me to become one. Because its completely impossible for me to believe that the ridiculously contradictory 2000 year old book that christians use as the basis of their faith is true... Darth-Caedus

And those contradictions are? However, contradictions don't automatically take away from historicity anyway.

I didn't say that i wouldn't acknowledge the validity of the christian faith if someone was able to prove it. How i respond to it is a completely different matter.

_Tobli_

I was asking why you would respond that way even if you accepted it's validity.

Also, to the people who keep saying they need a personal appearance or something similar, it would be good for discussion if you actually interacted with what I said about why that's a stupid standard of proof and not done in scholarly circles with regard to historical events.

[QUOTE="MatrixSamurai27"]Also, why you would you then not worship Him?

_Tobli_

It's probably related to how the character of Yaweh is presented in the old testament, or that they are just not the kind of people who would worship. (like me)

To the chagrin of my girlfriend's mother, there is absolutely nothing short of Jesus turning my pants into wine that would make me a Christian. And even then I wouldn't want to worship a God of any sort. foxhound_fox

I would become a Christian if Jesus or Gabriel came down into my apartment and told me verbatim "Become a christian my son. I'm for real."guynamedbilly

Nothing, besides God appearing before me, would make me believe in God. Even then though, I wouldn't worship him.redstorm72

Also, why you would you then not worship Him?

Nothing can persuade me to become a Christian. lexika

Why?

I am not a Christian and I think the whole idea is quite ridiculous, nothing would convert me, even if a spirit appeared in front of me claiming to be Jesus, I would just ask him questions that Christians can't seem to answer and hope he goes awayJunglemanchiId

Why is it ridiculous?

to me, Christianity is a jokei-rock-socks

Why?

wow, TC's name. Matrix, awesome Samurai, awsome 27, my favourite number. I think I love you.-eddy-

Err, what? Who is TC?

Do i think GOD has made the evidence avoidable? i dont get what you mean by that....please explain more....bsman00

See my replies above in my last post. If you want a standard of proof like them, then I won't waste my time.

What specific points of my statement are you not understanding?

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]To the chagrin of my girlfriend's mother, there is absolutely nothing short of Jesus turning my pants into wine that would make me a Christian. And even then I wouldn't want to worship a God of any sort. clayron

I would become a Christian if Jesus or Gabriel came down into my apartment and told me verbatim "Become a christian my son. I'm for real."guynamedbilly

Nothing, besides God appearing before me, would make me believe in God. Even then though, I wouldn't worship him.redstorm72

The problem is that these standards of proof for belief are too high. First of all, they make belief in God unavoidable, so then God doesn't have an avenue to test us to see if we really are truth seeking. Second, miracles aren't part of the "normal" operations of the universe so to speak. They need to be rare for several reasons. Finally, historians don't require that something in the past actually be seen by people today in order for it to be considered historical.