[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]He was asked to yield to others he did not. When police asked him to stand down he did not. Whether or not their actions were warranted he could have sat down and let someone else have a turn. But he did not. It was his own damn fault.Insane00

Dude, did you watch the video. He didn't get a chance to sit down. Whoever wrote the article seemed to leave out the fact that at no point was the lad told to sit down by the cops, they just grabbed him. If the cops had warned him, or ask him to sit down, not the moderater then I would agree, but that isn't the case. The cops got involved as soon as the mic was off. No warning, no justification, not even a reading of his rights, which the cops are required to give him by the constitution by a ruling of the Supreme Court. This is completely a wrong act by the police.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]Technically separation of church and state is in the constitution if the Supreme Court has ruled so.mig_killer2

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="giton"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="ROLFCHANK"]

i disagree to some extent. there was an executive order passed encouraging agencies to give grants to faith based charities doing "social work". if you think these groups aren't pushing religion on the beneficiaries of their services, i would have to doubt that seriously. but at any rate, this isn't a cut and dried issue. having said that, i don't care about it and i am not religious at all and am wary of any government involvement in religion, but the above seems so indirect to me that......who cares. giton

What are you talking about?

You can find much discussion of this, pro and con, by googling, but here it is from the asses mouth. I hope you will consider these to be credible references since they are from the US Government web site.

White House Press Release:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021212-3.html

The Executive Order (see sec. 2 part (f) in particular):

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021212-6.html

That doesn't state what you believe it states.

I'm not the TC, and I haven't said what I think it means.

what do you believe i think it means, and what do YOU think it means?

But since you bring it up, i do believe it violates the establishment clause of the first amendment because it permits government funds (which come from taxation) to be given to faith-based charities, stipulating that the money may not be used for the advancement of religion, yet it creates no oversight to ensure that doesn't occur. It is evident that the advancement of religious beliefs is a core part of the mission of any faith-based charitable organization, and any funding they get from the government will further their core mission in some way. Even if they only use the money to buy food and clothing to give to the poor, the distribution of these goods to the poor includes proselytizing.

Here is a court case that AU won against Prison Fellowship Ministries:

Americans United v Prison Fellowship Ministries

[QUOTE="ROLFCHANK"]

i disagree to some extent. there was an executive order passed encouraging agencies to give grants to faith based charities doing "social work". if you think these groups aren't pushing religion on the beneficiaries of their services, i would have to doubt that seriously. but at any rate, this isn't a cut and dried issue. having said that, i don't care about it and i am not religious at all and am wary of any government involvement in religion, but the above seems so indirect to me that......who cares. LJS9502_basic

What are you talking about?

[QUOTE="ROLFCHANK"]yeah, i was joking about Ulysses being light reading. it is actually a bear of a book and most people hate it. it's worth giving a try, though, if you want to invest some time. i actually wrote an undergraduate thesis on it in college. and a bunch of papers as well.O_OdazX_X

Lol, either way I'll still look out for it. I'm not part of the book culture so I've never heard of many of these writers, this is why I need your help OT!

[QUOTE="giton"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="giton"]

you say you are atheist. do you want your taxes to be used to spread religious belief?

LJS9502_basic

Taxes are NOT used to spread religious belief...:roll:

go back and read the TC's proposition. evidently you missed that, but it's what the thread is about.

I read it...and my answer is the same....tax dollars are not used to support religion.