[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] not at all, it is a serious question, i wish to know how you made this objective valuation, what were your metrics, i would give some examples as to what kind of metrics might be applicable but those would all be subjective metrics as it would be what i saw of value. i want to know what this objective valuation of the universe is based on.surrealnumber5

1. Size. We are living on a planet that orbits a dwarf star which is only a tiny speck in our galaxy that has about 400 billion stars. And there are billions, possibly trillions of galaxies. So, we are creatures living on a tiny speck that orbits a tiny speck that is situated on a tiny speck.value and scarcity go hand in hand, if anything we being exceptions would make us valued.

2. The universe isn't somehow conscious and only functions through the laws of physics, which means the universe itself has no ultimate purpose. based on what? the universe is not a single living entity and so it is meaning less are two completely different points not at all coinciding. AKA non sequitur

3. We are a product of evolution and that explains everything i think. We are here by chance, if the circumstances were slightly different, there probably would be no humans. Evolution also doesn't have an ultimate purpose either, it's only a mechanism. Adaptation through mutation and natural selection. evolution is absolute purpose, thing evolve to survive, there are winners and losers but to state something with an inherent objective is without purpose is wrong.

There are more, but three are enough for now in my opinion.

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] and you valued the universe at? using what impartial metrics so as to keep your objectivity?

surrealnumber5

1. Size. We are living on a planet that orbits a dwarf star which is only a tiny speck in our galaxy that has about 400 billion stars. And there are billions, possibly trillions of galaxies. So, we are creatures living on a tiny speck that orbits a tiny speck that is situated on a tiny speck.

2. The universe isn't somehow conscious and only functions through the laws of physics, which means the universe itself has no ultimate purpose.

3. We are a product of evolution and that explains everything i think. We are here by chance, if the circumstances were slightly different, there probably would be no humans. Evolution also doesn't have an ultimate purpose either, it's only a mechanism. Adaptation through mutation and natural selection.

There are more, but three are enough for now in my opinion.

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] there is no such thing as an objective valuation as a valuation is always measured against an arbitrary set of metrics. observations can be a lot more objective as there is no concluding point no judgement, but even these more times than not get spoiled and tainted by the views of the recorder with out the intent of such.

you think you are making an objective valuation of life, based on what? what makes you think you are being objective and not subjective?

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]That's subjective value, as i said before:[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.surrealnumber5

you think you are making an objective valuation of life, based on what? what makes you think you are being objective and not subjective?

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]That's subjective value, as i said before:[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.xaos

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="thegerg"] What has led you to the conclusion that simply because we have evolved means that we have no purpose?xscrapzx

i am making the judgement that i am not deceiving my self, that i do indeed have purpose, and that purpose has value. surrealnumber5

Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.Stavrogin_

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] the whole point of being agnostic is not to draw a definitive line on an unanswerable question. if you can prove or disprove god i will conclude one way or the other. i try not to assume answers for questions that have no evidence either way. you keep coming back to a god or no god as thepivotal point in your argument, and such an assumption is not part of any argument i make. value and purpose can be found in this world for people with or without god, you argue that life is meaningless, and i guess it sucks for you that you cannot find any value in anything you do and have come to the conclusion that there is no purpose for you, but the vast majority of people do find value in this world and their creed has nothing to do with their valuation.

thegerg

Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] so you assume and i am wrong? really? mr agnostic does not base his theories on religion or lack there of so you assume he is religious....

religion does not hold sway on me either way... i dont assume because there is no god life must be devoid of purpose... i dont assume because of god life is worth living. those are not the two views in this world, and many people dont even try to fit god into their equation. it is weird that a self described atheist would put so much weight in a god he does not believe could exist.

surrealnumber5

Oh, and what you were talking about in your post was subjective value, a value i don't denny. I was talking about objective value, which we don't have.

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]I like Unforgiven, Nothing Else Matters and Enter Sandman as far as metal is concerned.nitroRCman