[QUOTE="Tadgerot"][QUOTE="Razor_defiace"]

So you basically don't have evidence that they're shit. Can you also get a full qoute to the whole interview about that part, because I don't think Carmack's talking about the same thing you're.

Also the PS4 and Xbox 1 are practically the same(based on PC architecture), apart from some unique quirks. The PS3/Xbox360 were not even comparable by architecture, the dev tools reflect that. Porting and optimization is completely different to last gen consoles, and both companies are cooperating with devs to create tools that are easy to access. Not to mention that both Microsoft's and Sony tools aren't "that" far apart like you're making them out to be.

ronvalencia

http://www.ps3news.com/playstation-4-ps4-news/sony-unveils-new-playstation-4-ps4-details-at-gdc-2013/

"Tools are full integrated into Visual Studio 2010 and 2012"

"PS4 Dev Environment Windows 7 64-bit, tools are fully integrated into Visual Studio 2010 and 2012" :)

Sony is using the same tools as MS.

[QUOTE="Tadgerot"]

 What do mean? Ps4 uses OpenGL XBO DX. Microsoft have been making development tools for years as stated, Sony have not. It it not rocket science. I don't see a visual studios Sony anywhere. I think he is talking about the same thing @2:00 http://kotaku.com/john-carmack-on-ps4-vs-xbox-one-specs-theyre-very-c-994733823?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Twitter&utm_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow Summary, Sony development tools are much much better than they ever have been, no mention or parity to MS tools though.Razor_defiace

So basically, no mention of the tools being awful or shit compared to MS'. Also Sony doesn't actually use OpenGL for their consoles, it's a custom API on the PS4. Sony had a OpenGL/ES wrapper on the PS3 though. 

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

 

PS4 seems to have a driver layer that can influence the rendering performance.

tormentos

Yeah and like the developer say you don't have to use it.

[QUOTE="Tadgerot"]The actual evidence comes from the mouth of Carmak, the tools might be 'manageable' but are they as polished as MS? And that remained constant over the current gen. People keep saying, yeah but ps4 is easy to develop for now because of the unified ram etc, yeah I agreed, but if the tools are not optimised and as polished as MS then it's never going to be 'as' as dev friendly. Lets face it MS has been creating tools for developers for years, Sony have not.Razor_defiace

So you basically don't have evidence that they're shit. Can you also get a full qoute to the whole interview about that part, because I don't think Carmack's talking about the same thing you're.  

Also the PS4 and Xbox 1 are practically the same(based on PC architecture), apart from some unique quirks. The PS3/Xbox360 were not even comparable by architecture, the dev tools reflect that. Porting and optimization is completely different to last gen consoles, and both companies are cooperating with devs to create tools that are easy to access. Not to mention that both Microsoft's and Sony tools aren't "that" far apart like you're making them out to be. 

Sad, leagues of gamespot developers must know more than Carmack, an already well-established developer. The fanboys must know something that Carmack doesn't, clearly their knowledge far surpasses his. /sarcasm/

ceromaster

[QUOTE="Tadgerot"]I noticed that Carmak said sonys libs where getting better. You can have the best hardware in the world but if sonys libs are shite and they are still playing catch up to MS in that department then expect games to run/look better on the XBO. It's worrying that sonys dev tools are that shite.Razor_defiace

The dev tools are pretty manageable, going by dev feedback. The dev tools were pretty crap during the first years of the PS3, similarly the 360's tools were pretty awful during its launch period too (though not to the same extent as the PS3's). The fact was that the PS3 just didn't have an architecture that would lend itself that great to regular dev software.

Anyway provide actual factual evidence to backup your claim. It just looks like you're assuming that Sony's tools being behind equals that they're shit (which they're not, judging by the multiplatforms between the 360/PS3 during the last years)... unless you're indirectly stating that Microsoft's tools are horrible too, but not to the same extent as Sony's.