[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]You need to look at what else is being said in conjunction with the word pointless. I'm not saying that essays are pointless the end. I'm saying that essays are pointless depending upon the person doing it. An essay is pointless to a person who does not learn from it. Of course, he could learn from the essay, but if he has not and choses not to, then where is the potential? How can that potential exist, if he has made the decision not to learn from the essay? Vandalvideo

I would argue with you further, but I have things to attend to. I do find this debate to be quite stimulating though, and I find it quite rewarding to argue with someone with this profound sense of logic. I take it that you're a law student? If so, it makes sense.

[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]I have thus clarified what I meant by pointless concerning the doing of essays. This is entirely a subjective matter, not an objective one because the importance of the essay is based upon the person doing it. As for proof, well it should be obvious. Something is pointless to a person if he doesn't get the point of it. It is not objectively or absolutely pointless because there are those who do get the point.Vandalvideo

You need to look at what else is being said in conjunction with the word pointless. I'm not saying that essays are pointless the end. I'm saying that essays are pointless depending upon the person doing it. An essay is pointless to a person who does not learn from it. Of course, he could learn from the essay, but if he has not and choses not to, then where is the potential? How can that potential exist, if he has made the decision not to learn from the essay?

[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]The essays are pointless for those who choose not to learn from them. In general, whether an essay is important really depends upon the person. It is not a question of how pointless or important an essay so much as how pointless or important it is to a person doing them. Thus it doesn't reflect upon the essays themselves, should the person not learn from them, but it does reflect upon process of doing the essay. If he does it and doesn't learn, then how important was the essay to him? Should he discard it, he can't use it for supplemental purposes later. Altogether, his doing the essay was pointless because he didn't get anything from it. But everyone is different. Someone who does learn from doing essays, and who uses it for supplemental purposes later will find more importance in doing essays. Vandalvideo

I have thus clarified what I meant by pointless concerning the doing of essays. This is entirely a subjective matter, not an objective one because the importance of the essay is based upon the person doing it. As for proof, well it should be obvious. Something is pointless to a person if he doesn't get the point of it. It is not objectively or absolutely pointless because there are those who do get the point.

[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]If a person doesn't learn from the essays and the homework because they're "doing it wrong" then it is pointless to them as you say. To those that do learn from essays and homework, then it isn't pointless and can be beneficial, even to autodidacts. It sounds as though you and I are in agreement.Vandalvideo

The essays are pointless for those who choose not to learn from them. In general, whether an essay is important really depends upon the person. It is not a question of how pointless or important an essay so much as how pointless or important it is to a person doing them. Thus it doesn't reflect upon the essays themselves, should the person not learn from them, but it does reflect upon process of doing the essay. If he does it and doesn't learn, then how important was the essay to him? Should he discard it, he can't use it for supplemental purposes later. Altogether, his doing the essay was pointless because he didn't get anything from it. But everyone is different. Someone who does learn from doing essays, and who uses it for supplemental purposes later will find more importance in doing essays.

edit: However, I think you should be careful in your wording. You're assuming that a person has a poor work-ethic because he doesn't learn from doing essays and that he is "doing it wrong." You need to prove to me absolutely that a person has a poor work-ethic if he doesn't learn from essays.

[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]It depends upon the person who is doing the essays and the homework doesn't it? Certainly a person can do these things without learning from them, thereby making them pointless. Should the person actually learn from doing the essays and the homework, then it ceases to be pointless. However, from a personal standpoint, I learn better when I'm interested in the subject, and nothing bores me more than doing essays and homework. I would sooner read a book, commit the pages to memory than to do worksheets on it. Essays are a bit iffy to me. I don't mind doing them when I feel the need to, however, I would rather recline on the grass on a nice morning with a book on the subject in my hands than sit in a dorm, writing the essay.Vandalvideo

If a person doesn't learn from the essays and the homework because they're "doing it wrong" then it is pointless to them as you say. To those that do learn from essays and homework, then it isn't pointless and can be beneficial, even to autodidacts. It sounds as though you and I are in agreement.

[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

1. No one here said that knowledge has to come from a degree/college...you just took a counter argument to a point that no one made
-all here would agree that knowledge can be gleaned from a variety of sources

2. I don't think you were kidding...but that is neither here nor there...you need to make yourself more clear or say so when someone calls you out on it...not 10 posts later…unless you don't really care what other posters think…but then don't get upset when they make assumptions based on the limited information available
-you are a new poster here. how is anyone supposed to have any feel for you or how you post

rawsavon

Now you have a feel for how I post. Whining just gets on my nerves.

No, I don't...takes a lot more than 1 thread

And no one was whining in this entire thread...on either side of the debate...don't know where you got that from
-unless you are just making the statement "i don't like whining"
-well "i don't like coffee"

If it takes more than one thread to get a feel for how I post, then don't jump down my throat based on mere speculation. And I'm only saying that you're whining, and I wouldn't have said it unless I thought you were.

[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]One can get a degree without knowing what the degree is. One can gain knowledge without getting a degree, and not waste time doing pointless essays, homework, ect. I would much prefer learning about the history of Egypt by going to Egypt and getting a first-hand look by visiting museums, talking to historians, debate, ect.Vandalvideo

It depends upon the person who is doing the essays and the homework doesn't it? Certainly a person can do these things without learning from them, thereby making them pointless. Should the person actually learn from doing the essays and the homework, then it ceases to be pointless. However, from a personal standpoint, I learn better when I'm interested in the subject, and nothing bores me more than doing essays and homework. I would sooner read a book, commit the pages to memory than to do worksheets on it. Essays are a bit iffy to me. I don't mind doing them when I feel the need to, however, I would rather recline on the grass on a nice morning with a book on the subject in my hands than sit in a dorm, writing the essay.

[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

The exception only proves the rule. Do you think anybody can be like Faraday?

Theokhoth

Anyone with a desire to learn can be like Faraday, anyone who likes to read and learn about things. It's not as though autodidacts are rare because there are certainly quite a few of them. Many Renaissance men, including Leonardo daVinci himself were large self-learners. Leonardo da Vinci didn't even receive much formal learning in mathematics and geometry.

What separates autodidacts from people in general is not the desire to learn but the structured organization provided by a school. Some people can organize it well enough in their heads but they are not the norm.

Autodidacts have existed since at least the day so antiquity, and the schools of antiquity are not as structured as they are now. In fact, the school started by Plato was nothing like the schools of today, unless you think talking and debate instead of classwork is what we have today. We don't.

I think everyone is capable to become a self-learning, and really who isn't when it boils down to it? Everyone has an interest, which they pursue even past the school environment. I see people who've not been in school for at least 10 years in libraries, bookstores, ect, picking out history books, physics books, and things of that nature. An autodidact is more of a person who doesn't treat any subject as a mere hobby though, or interest. He's really a student with enough discipline to sit down and study over a book for extended periods of time. Discipline can be nurtured, and anyone can do this.

[QUOTE="TheAbbeFaria"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] He backed himself into a ridiculous corner with his earlier statement...now he is struggling to rationalize and fight his way outrawsavon

No, I'm not. I'm not even talking about what I said earlier. I'm talking about the sentiment, which goes back to my very post, that a degree doesn't necessarily equate to knowledge. One can still be knowledgeable without having a degree. I think you need to relax a bit, I was only kidding around before, or couldn't you tell that I wasn't being serious?

1. No one here said that knowledge has to come from a degree/college...you just took a counter argument to a point that no one made
-all here would agree that knowledge can be gleaned from a variety of sources

2. I don't think you were kidding...but that is neither here nor there...you need to make yourself more clear or say so when someone calls you out on it...not 10 posts later…unless you don't really care what other posters think…but then don't get upset when they make assumptions based on the limited information available
-you are a new poster here. how is anyone supposed to have any feel for you or how you post

Now you have a feel for how I post. Whining just gets on my nerves.