Tokugawa77's forum posts

Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#1 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="the_plan_man"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] We're at an impasse because you want to blame the victim....not the aggressor.LJS9502_basic

Let's just say we're at an impass and call this tangent quits. Neither side is going to cave in.

I suppose.....but I have no patience with stupidity.

This is the type of thing that pisses me of sometimes in OT. You're so assured that you are right that you find the need to insult others. That or you are insecure with you position and find the need to make personal attacks. Wow.
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#2 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] It actually is and since we are at an impass here I won't take this any further.the_plan_man
We're at an impasse because you want to blame the victim....not the aggressor.

Let's just say we're at an impass and call this tangent quits. Neither side is going to cave in.

Wisest words I've read so far in this thread.
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#3 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] That's actually not the facts and I suggest some education on the subject. You're making yourself look foolish here....

It actually is and since we are at an impass here I won't take this any further.

We're at an impasse because you want to blame the victim....not the aggressor.

I thought it was obvious that I was blaming religious differences, not any individual.
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#4 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts
[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]it's my opinion.....it's not ignorance or facts.....foxhound_fox
It's my opinion that you are an idiot. However, my opinion is rooted in demonstrable evidence that supports the reasoning. [QUOTE="Tokugawa77"] I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all.

I really hate being "that" guy... but this seems self-contradictory. Especially considering how you aren't considering ALL the facts. What about Mao and Stalin? Did they have religious motivations when executing and imprisoning millions of their own people? I already provided a link that sources a study that concludes only 10% of all conflicts in recorded human history have clear religious motivation. But not even all of those are a "primary" motivation, merely a part of it. It is intellectually dishonest to claim you don't mean to demonize religion, but then go out of your way to show it in an incredibly negative light, weighted heavily against it with the "facts" you present (which doesn't show the whole picture).

I agree that Stalin was an atheist (or at least enforced atheistic policies), and I hate to turn this into a atheist vs theist post, but Stalin did not kill "in the name of atheism", nor did he kill people beacuse of their religion. And how would you know my intent? I only seek to defend my position, nothing more. I don't see how I am portraying religion in a negative light- it is fact that it has caused many conflicts, but then again so has ethnicity and natural recourses, to name a few. I think that you (and some other in this thread) are just slightly biased against anyone who critisizes religion, so when some one voices this opinion, you leap on it as "demonizing".
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#5 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts
[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No religion is not responsible if the person that acted did not do for his own personal religious convictions. That's like blaming the victim.....is that how it goes for you? It's the minorities fault if he gets beat up for race or orientation? Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing here. It's the most illogical argument I've ever seen in the many years and many posts I've read in OT. And that is saying something.LJS9502_basic
Well whatever you're free to think that if you want. Does not change the fact that religion itself was responsible, or to cater to you, "religious difference". What was all this about race orientation? In either case We are completely missing the point- the holocaust was just one example, I for the record I would argue that some thinkers within the Nazi party drew upon other religions to form their dogma. Not a debate-winner, but still relevent.

That's actually not the facts and I suggest some education on the subject. You're making yourself look foolish here....

It actually is and since we are at an impass here I won't take this any further.
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#6 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You have this ass backwards. When someone blames religion it's not because they were killed for it....it's because they killed for it. Learn the difference. Wow.

Point? Either way, religion is still responsible. Like I said, not passing judgment one way or the other. That's of course assuming that the killer had no religious motivation of his own (he didn't kill in the name of his religion), which is highly unlikely in the first place. I'm finding your snide remarks kinda annoying as well, btw.

No religion is not responsible if the person that acted did not do for his own personal religious convictions. That's like blaming the victim.....is that how it goes for you? It's the minorities fault if he gets beat up for race or orientation? Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing here. It's the most illogical argument I've ever seen in the many years and many posts I've read in OT. And that is saying something.

Well whatever you're free to think that if you want. Does not change the fact that religion itself was responsible, or to cater to you, "religious difference". What was all this about race orientation? In either case We are completely missing the point- the holocaust was just one example, I for the record I would argue that some thinkers within the Nazi party drew upon other religions to form their dogma. Not a debate-winner, but still relevent.
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#7 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts
[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I really don't know why it's so hard for you to understand. The Jewish were killed yes....but they were NOT the only group. Hence.....it was not for religious reasons. Or it would have been all Jewish. This is the most stupid argument I've ever seen in regard to an attempt to demonize religion.LJS9502_basic
I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all. I'm not passing judgement at all. So.. if a serial killer hates black people and Muslims, and kills one person of each group, you would say that his killing of the Muslim is not motivated by religion just because he also killed a black man?

You have this ass backwards. When someone blames religion it's not because they were killed for it....it's because they killed for it. Learn the difference. Wow.

Point? Either way, religion is still responsible. Like I said, not passing judgment one way or the other. That's of course assuming that the killer had no religious motivation of his own (he didn't kill in the name of his religion), which is highly unlikely in the first place. I'm finding your snide remarks kinda annoying as well, btw.
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#8 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts
No the Holocaust was not religious motivated...if you want to say religious persecution...I'd say that's okay. But Hitler was NOT fighting a religious war. He wasn't draping himself in religion to attack nor take individuals. You really are talking out your ass here.....LJS9502_basic
Guess what religious persecution is caused by? Oh yea, religion. So the pointg still stands. changing the name does not change the fact that 6 million jews were killed for the sole fact that they were Jewish.
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#9 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No it wasn't motivated by religion. For someone supposedly versed in the war you are totally clueless.

Extermination of Jews= killing based on religion. I rerally don't get what's so hard to understand...

I really don't know why it's so hard for you to understand. The Jewish were killed yes....but they were NOT the only group. Hence.....it was not for religious reasons. Or it would have been all Jewish. This is the most stupid argument I've ever seen in regard to an attempt to demonize religion.

I'm not trying to demonize religion, just stating facts. Religion has been responsible for many of the world's attrocities, that's all. I'm not passing judgement at all. So.. if a serial killer hates black people and Muslims, and kills one person of each group, you would say that his killing of the Muslim is not motivated by religion just because he also killed a black man?
Avatar image for Tokugawa77
Tokugawa77

1554

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

3

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#10 Tokugawa77
Member since 2009 • 1554 Posts

[QUOTE="Tokugawa77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ethnicity is not race.LJS9502_basic

Race: classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups by factors such as heritable phenotypic characteristics or geographic ancestry, culture, ethnicity, and socio-economic status So for example, Caucasian would be the race, Czech would be the ethnicity.

Why did you post that? I said Jewish is an ethnicity. You confused it with race....not me. Every country is an ethnicity. Not a race. An ethnicity. Judaism is the religion. And considering Hitler and his SS did not solely target those of the Jewish faith....then I guess that blows your theory out of the water....

Posting it so that we don't get into some stupid argument over race vs ethnicity. When did I confuse the two?? As you said, Judaism is a religion, and since people of the Jewish faith (and Jehovah's Witnesses) were targeted based upon their religion, you would say that the holocaust was religiously motivated. The other groups that were targeted were not targeted because of religion, but how does that change the fact that some groups still were? THE HOLOCAUST MOTIVATED BECAUSE OF RELIGION. Comprende?