[QUOTE="dabear"][QUOTE="fluxorator"][QUOTE="kindredmachine"]

So I was playing MGS4 and finished act 1 and guess what... I was greeted with a "please wait" type screen while the game actually had to stop for several minutes and RE-INSTALL the next act of the game. I laughed from the irony since people were boasting about not having to swap disks because of Blu-ray. It would actually have been FASTER to get up and swap a disk then to sit there for 2-3 solid minutes while the game installs after every completed act... It's funny how PS3 fans don't mention this... still an incredible game though...

Highlander0689

I think you might have had to install it even if there was 5 discs... Thats what people don't seem to realise.
The only reason MGS4 can look and play so smooth is because it basically runs off the HDD... you'd still have install between chapters even with 5 discs...

It's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

First of all, the PS3 can read in data almost twice as fast as a system with a 12x DVD9 drive and no HDD in a worst-case(for PS3) scenario, and up to 8 times faster in a best-case(for PS3) scenario because it has a HDD. There, I put that right at the top so those who read one sentence and post a knee-jerk reaction can have a field day. For those who simply doubt and are interested in how I arrived at that conclusion, read on.

And BTW, DMC4 is definitely an aberration. Some PS3 title HDD usage figures: HS, 2GB; R&C, .5GB; R:FOM, .5GB; Burnout, 44MB. I suspect Capcom is a bit lost when it comes to PS3 development, as there is just no excuse to put the whole frickin game on the HDD.

It is a common misconception that a 12x DVD as used on the PSH would have been capable of faster data transfer for all data stored on the disk. While it is true that the peak read speed of 12x DVD is twice that of Blu-Ray, this speed is only achieved at the outermost handful of sectors on the disk -- maybe 1% or 2% of the data can be read at this speed. MOST of the data is read at something less than 12x, as the benchmark below shows very clearly. The AVERAGE read speed of DVD9 12x is about the same as for Blu-Ray, about 8.9MB/sec. DVD vs. 8.2MB/sec for Blu-Ray(which does not vary across the disk).

Developers can compensate for this by concentrating data that needs to be read quickly on the outer sectors of the disk, but again -- very, very little of that data can actually be read at 12x. So, to put it mildly, the transfer rate advantage of DVD9 is commonly overstated.

In a nutshell:
-DVD9 has slower transfer rate for about the first ~1.5G and the last ~1.5G of data.
-DVD9 has marginally faster(less than 25%) transfer rate between ~1.5G and ~2.5G, and between ~5.5G and ~6.5G.
-DVD9 has between 25% and 100% faster transfer rate for the middle ~3G.

Now, the key point that people seem to ignore, is that these transfers can take place in parallel, from the HDD and the BD. Your first reaction may be a big W-T-F?? and it might not make sense at first, since it is a SATA HDD and SATA BD drive, and after all, the 'S' in SATA stands for "Serial". The thing is, even though SATA is serial, the data rate is 1.5Gbit/sec or 187.5MByte/sec so there is more than enough bandwidth on the wire to handle the max peak transfer rate of the BD & HDD combined. With that in mind, next we'll need to know the HDD transfer rates so we can add that to the BD transfer rates.

When we take the parallelism into account, the breakdown is as follows(keeping in mind that these are sustained transfer rates, which are generally much lower than peak or burst transfer rates):
DVD9 Min. sustained transfer @5x: 8.2 MB/sec
DVD9 Max. sustained transfer @12x: 16.5 MB/sec
PS3 Min/Max sustained transfer, BD only: 8 MB/sec
PS3 Min sustained transfer, BD + OEM 60G HDD: (21.8 + 8 ) = 29.8 MB/sec
PS3 Max sustained transfer, BD + OEM 60G HDD: (39.3 + 8 ) = 47.3 MB/sec
PS3 Min sustained transfer, BD + WD250 HDD: (33.0 + 8 ) = 41 MB/sec
PS3 Max sustained transfer, BD + WD250 HDD: (58.2 + 8 ) = 66.2 MB/sec

The PS3 can read in data far, far faster than the PSH even accounting for the 12x DVD. Developers can make a number of trade-offs here. They can put any data that needs to be read at >8G/Sec on the HDD, like the uncompressed audio in Heavenly Sword. They can put some data on the HDD to be read in parallel with the BD, as I suspect Insomniac did with R:FOM and R&C. Or they can just throw up their hands and put it all on the HDD as seems to be the case with DMC4.

Conclusion: Don't let anyone bully you into thinking DVD9 has a faster overall transfer rate. That's nonsense.

Wow this is the only intelligent post so far. With DVD9 the 360 will still need to installs, however, since the 360 doesn't come with a standard HDD it would suffer from embarassingly long loading times as well as disc swapping. The PS3's Blu-Ray drive is on par with the 360's DVD9 in terms of transfer rate but with the HDD in the PS3 loading times can easliy be cut in half leaving the 360 with twice wait. So, it's a lose for the 360 no matter how you look at it.

That's funny now you're belitting your own purchase. You obviously chose to buy it for a reason. One doesn't merely shell out hundreds of dollars on something they hate. If that's the case your problems are deeper than I imagined. You clearly need help.

However, I seriously doubt that's the case. Any sane person wouldn't spend hundreds of dollars on something they didn't want. So, I'm going to call your bluff on that one. It's apparent that you don't have a PS3.

What's sad now is that you'd even go as far as lying to justify your purchase. Meaning that you falsly admit to giving into the conspiracy you so adamently described. If you aren't lying that means you did give into the conspiracy and are a hypocrite. Either way you lose.

Ah, fanboyism is easy to overcome with a little logic.

Highlander0689

Checkmate!!!

The PS3 is the best Blu-Ray player on the market.

The PS3 has more functionality than the 360: Most third-party peripherals(HDD, Headset, and etc) work unlike on the 360, much more variety in terms of memory slots, free online that's on par with 360's paid service, Region Free Games, full backwards capatablility(certain SKUs), standard HDMI and HDD, better quality(no RROD or anything like it), exclusives tend to look better visually, televison and Tivo-like functions(in certain part of Europe), browser, built-in wifi, no lousey disc tray and chargable controllers out of the box. You can even hook a printer up to the thing and run Linux and other Unix OSs. The PS3 has the functionality department dominated.

The PS3 has a more steady string of updates which means that it gets better faster.

Also, the PS3 is the only console with a AAAAE(MGS4).

Yeah, that's right. I've played it... and loved it! So I'll share it with you all. It's called "Bootfighter Windom" I'm sure you all get the joke but seriously, try it. What do you have to lose?

Here's where you can find it.

The link is to: http://mirrormoon.org/projects/windom

First of all, this crap about the Wii ~not counting~ in the system war doesn't make sense. People say it ~doesn't count~ because there are casual games like Sega Tennis. Oh wait, that game is on every other console isn't it? Sure, the Wii has some of it's own single platform casual games, but defining a system by these games is ridiculous.

Next, PS3 and XBOX360 owners talk trash about the Wii when they most likely don't own one. They catch wind of the kiddish parts of the system, but not the parts meant for other audiences.

When these owners describe the Wii they usually leave games like Zelda, and Brawl completely out of the topic.

The point is, these people shouldn't judge the system without owning the system. Many people make excuses like ~zomg ive played it at gamestop and it suxxored~. When you look at it, thats just a demo, and its probably wii sports. If you want to judge the wii by wii sports, fine, im going to judge the xbox 360 by the red ring of death. 'nuff said.

Finally, the whole graphics argument. It's obvious that the Wii doesn't have the capability to run on graphics similar to those of the PS3 and XBOX360. Apparently this makes it less of a system. Last I checked games were meant to have fun, not to look at for 5 minutes before you realize you're playing a load of crap. The Wii is entertaining, because it is based around motion control, which leaves many control scheme options avaliable.

To finish this rant off, I just ask some of you that judge before expieriencing Wii to try it out for mroe than 5 minutes. Who knows? maybe you'll like it.

RyhmA

When the Wii has next gen multimedia functions and produces graphics on par with Gears or Uncharted try making this thread again. Until then the Wii is only a second rate piece of crap console that probably wouldn't sell if it weren't for its low price and gimmicky controller. The fact that the Wii can't compete graphically with the PS3 or 360 proves that it's not next gen. The Wii is merely a gamecube with an exta little gimmick attached.

When the red light is on (standby mode) turn it on but hold the on button for 5-7 seconds until you hear a couple more beeps, it will then go to the SD TV setting .. and when you go home you'll have to do it again to change it back to HD.420Token420

Thanks!

[QUOTE="Vaizard34"]

[QUOTE="Immortal_Evil"]Somebody please prove to me that halo 3 is overrated and does not deserve to sit upon its throne as console king. The jealousy i see within this forum of what bungie has created is killing me.thrones

Here's the best Halo 3 review. Watch it... I know it's old but so are most Halo 3 reviews at this point.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/2304-Zero-Punctuation-Halo-3

Yay! Yahtzee, he hates everything :D

He didn't hate The Orange Box(he loved portal for that matter, Assasin's Creed, Bioshock, Call of Duty 4 or Crysis.

But he did hate Halo 3. That has to tell you something.

Somebody please prove to me that halo 3 is overrated and does not deserve to sit upon its throne as console king. The jealousy i see within this forum of what bungie has created is killing me.Immortal_Evil

Here's the best Halo 3 review. Watch it... I know it's old but so are most Halo 3 reviews at this point.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/zeropunctuation/2304-Zero-Punctuation-Halo-3