[QUOTE="Vylence"]The PC has lost the most exclusives out of any platform. And what you call relatively small is purely subjective. And PCs numbers should knock people out of the pool with 300million gamers on its side. Though consoles will sell more with less of an install base. Yes thats right Vandal those numbers you keep talking about are not making a splash when games like Halo3 can sell nearly 2.5 million in one day.You keep maginifying one small aspect of the picture, when I would much rather believe the developers who have jobs in the industry. Which is where this discussion began.Vandalvideo

MISCONCEPTION!? The PC has lost the most exclusives: FACT. Games which they would not have even thought about putting on a console they now develop first on the consoles. And so what Starcraft sold 15 million over its lifetime, so did GT4 according to others. And my lack of understanding of the PC market means I should not debate you? Meanwhile lead developers from your platform agree with me.

And Mario has had more games then any character on the PC, he's on the consoles.

[QUOTE="Vylence"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Thats not all you need. Besides, there is a relatively small ammount of developers making games for consoles. Oh and your turn of phrase is wrong. PC developers aren't going to consoles, they're becomming multiplat, just like every console developer is doing as well. You people have this exact same problem. However, the PC still retains the most exclusives. I like how you dismiss five of the most influential companies in the PC gaming industry, the NPD, and numerous satistics as "nothing more than rhetoric to pious PC gamers". If you can't disprove what I'm saying, then I suggest you quit trying, because you're just digging your holedeeper. Things I've proven so far: A) THe PC accounts for 30% of the entire game sales. B) The PC's sales are not declining, in fact, theres been a 12% increase in sales since 2006. C) The PC has the most announced exclusives and highly rated titles. D) Indie developers are selling multi-million copies in their first month without any issues from piracy. So heres an idea, come back when you have some evidence.Vandalvideo

A) The PC acounts for less than a third of all game sales, yet has a user base of nearly 300million acording to your same sources. Consoles have considerbly less and account for greater than 2/3s.

B) Meanwhile Console games were up 46%, and if you would take out Wow from the PC numbers I wouldn't be suprised if that increase dropped to 6%.

C) The PC has the most exclusively lost titles and high ratings.

D) And you act like the Indy developers are the answer when an Indy developer is never going to stay an Indy developer.

The PC has lost the most exclusives out of any platform. And what you call relatively small is purely subjective. And PCs numbers should knock people out of the pool with 300million gamers on its side. Though consoles will sell more with less of an install base. Yes thats right Vandal those numbers you keep talking about are not making a splash when games like Halo3 can sell nearly 2.5 million in one day.

You keep maginifying one small aspect of the picture, when I would much rather believe the developers who have jobs in the industry. Which is where this discussion began.

Thats not all you need. Besides, there is a relatively small ammount of developers making games for consoles. Oh and your turn of phrase is wrong. PC developers aren't going to consoles, they're becomming multiplat, just like every console developer is doing as well. You people have this exact same problem. However, the PC still retains the most exclusives. I like how you dismiss five of the most influential companies in the PC gaming industry, the NPD, and numerous satistics as "nothing more than rhetoric to pious PC gamers". If you can't disprove what I'm saying, then I suggest you quit trying, because you're just digging your holedeeper. Things I've proven so far: A) THe PC accounts for 30% of the entire game sales. B) The PC's sales are not declining, in fact, theres been a 12% increase in sales since 2006. C) The PC has the most announced exclusives and highly rated titles. D) Indie developers are selling multi-million copies in their first month without any issues from piracy. So heres an idea, come back when you have some evidence.Vandalvideo

A) The PC acounts for less than a third of all game sales, yet has a user base of nearly 300million acording to your same sources. Consoles have considerbly less and account for greater than 2/3s.

B) Meanwhile Console games were up 46%, and if you would take out Wow from the PC numbers I wouldn't be suprised if that increase dropped to 6%.

C) The PC has the most exclusively lost titles and high ratings.

D) And you act like the Indy developers are the answer when an Indy developer is never going to stay an Indy developer.

[QUOTE="Vylence"]Actually I can, any game developer who payed for CD protection lost money to piracy, any game which has a CD key lost money to piracy. And you keep pointing out these amazing Indy developers, two does not a trend make. I can point out many more developers who are saying piracy is a big problem. And you still ignore that it would a negative that all blockbuster titles moved to consoles. Indy developers do not stay Indy developers if they make good games.Vandalvideo

If there is no piracy why would they put CD protection on their games? You defy logic.

Link. Witchers CD protection. And I do not se how you can say anthing about Sins since it just came out and we do not know what the sales will be like.

[QUOTE="Vylence"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Prove they are making less BECAUSE OF piracy. Stardock, CDPROJECT, etc have all released games that sold multi-million copies in their first months. They seem to be doing perfectly fine.Vandalvideo

If I could find pirated versions of these game would you concede they are making less? If I could point out a number of downloads of these pirated versions would you concede they are making less? If I could find a post on stardocks site where someone had trouble with the CD protection that they have put on their games would you believe they lost money to piracy? They have to pay for CD protection, customers do become frustrated with broken installs because of CD protection. You are right definitive proof is hard to come by even if I can easily find these things. Though it seems pretty logical to me to say they are at least losing some money because of piracy.

And even if its true they are doing fine, what if you would like games on PC that pull out all the stops. You know games with AAA teams working behind them? Games with 5 million dollar budgets? How much does piracy hurt those games?

Actually I can, any game developer who payed for CD protection lost money to piracy, any game which has a CD key lost money to piracy.

And you keep pointing out these amazing Indy developers, two does not a trend make. I can point out many more developers who are saying piracy is a big problem. And you still ignore that it would a negative that all blockbuster titles moved to consoles. Indy developers do not stay Indy developers if they make good games.

Prove they are making less BECAUSE OF piracy. Stardock, CDPROJECT, etc have all released games that sold multi-million copies in their first months. They seem to be doing perfectly fine.Vandalvideo

If I could find pirated versions of these game would you concede they are making less? If I could point out a number of downloads of these pirated versions would you concede they are making less? If I could find a post on stardocks site where someone had trouble with the CD protection that they have put on their games would you believe they lost money to piracy? They have to pay for CD protection, customers do become frustrated with broken installs because of CD protection. You are right definitive proof is hard to come by even if I can easily find these things. Though it seems pretty logical to me to say they are at least losing some money because of piracy.

And even if its true they are doing fine, what if you would like games on PC that pull out all the stops. You know games with AAA teams working behind them? Games with 5 million dollar budgets? How much does piracy hurt those games?

[QUOTE="Vylence"]No, you are wrong piracy is a huge problem. Vandalvideo

Point out all these developers. Prove they wouldn't make more without piracy. What happens when they want to develop a more mainstream game?

[QUOTE="Vylence"][QUOTE="HoldThePhone"][QUOTE="Vylence"][QUOTE="karasill"][QUOTE="Vylence"]

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

HoldThePhone

No Gas Powered complained, Blizzard has complained if you think they haven't you do not know your history. Starcraft was pirated MAJORLY. Crytek is now developing a version of Crysis for each of the platforms, I wonder why? Lionhead has complained, Epic complained.

And if I looked through antiquity I'm sure others would have as well.

Starcraft was pirated majorly, yes. It also sold a clean 10,000,000 + copies.

And I bet you half of those pirates, will purchase Starcraft 2 on the day of its release.

It's actually a good thing.

No its not, games could be cheaper, games could have come out sooner, games could not have outragous cd protection and encryption. Games could not be moving to be console only and MMO only. If you think piracy is in any way good, you are deluding yourself.

I put a positive spin on piracy. Yes, it is overall a bad thing, i would rather you buy a game then steal it. But it does get the word out alot faster.

PC games are $50, if you think piracy was magically eliminated they would be cheaper then you are delusional. Piracy is an expected expense the developers probably calculate in their projections. A small minority of people pirate newly released games.

For example, if you like Starcraft, and the sequel is being released tommarow you could:

A.) Pick up your copy at the nearest stort for $50.

B.) Wait a week for the pirated versions to finally start appearing, and spend a few more days trying to get a working version downloaded. And be prepared to work through a whole bunch of errors and CD key problems, getting on Battle Net, get a working CD crack, and basically work through a bunch complicated problems.

If you think Pirating is easy as click - download - play. Then you don't know what you're talking about. Especially when the game is new, you have to be a pro at what you do to get a working copy.

Fact is, the large majority people would rather spend $50 for a game they were looking forward to. Most pirating takes place long after release by people who just want to try the game out. I am a heavy PC gamer and know pirates, and none of them are as desperate to save money as you make them out to be.

No, you are wrong piracy is a huge problem. I remember when the original Starcraft came out my Brother had a pirated copy a week before the game came out. And piracy can be just as easy as point click play, I've had more trouble with some actual game installs. And the question in my mind is: Would I have had to go through this if there was no piracy? Heck the newest version of Sims have you download some program that checks copy protection, do not even tell you they are installing it.

Hopefully my favorite titles from the PC will all go to the consoles. DiabloII, The sims, and simcity, and god sim games like Black and White. They even focus on gameplay mechanics that I like on the consoles like COOP. Leave you ignorant Hermits to yourselves.

[QUOTE="Vylence"][QUOTE="karasill"][QUOTE="Vylence"]

I would like to see how much of an increase in PC sales would be if they took out all the money from Wow subs. Piracy does affect specific genres much more than others, though I guess Hermits are okay with RTS, FPSs becoming console leads. No reason to believe that all these developers are thinking DD is an answer to the biggest problem they have with PC development.

If all your greatest developers are saying its a huge problem and the Hermits are saying its not, where is the disconnect?

HoldThePhone

No Gas Powered complained, Blizzard has complained if you think they haven't you do not know your history. Starcraft was pirated MAJORLY. Crytek is now developing a version of Crysis for each of the platforms, I wonder why? Lionhead has complained, Epic complained.

And if I looked through antiquity I'm sure others would have as well.

Starcraft was pirated majorly, yes. It also sold a clean 10,000,000 + copies.

And I bet you half of those pirates, will purchase Starcraft 2 on the day of its release.

It's actually a good thing.

No its not, games could be cheaper, games could have come out sooner, games could not have outragous cd protection and encryption. Games could not be moving to be console only and MMO only. If you think piracy is in any way good, you are deluding yourself.