I thought this was in closed beta. Can anyone download it? I'd really like to try it, especially with this news about the removal of the nickel and diming stuff. :)

How about we just shake hands and agree that we're not going to share a point of view on this one?

Because different people determine value in very different ways. What one person finds perfectly reasonable can seem like a total rip off to someone else. I kinda think that's what is happening here. And there's nothing wrong with that. I don't believe either of us is right or wrong, I think we just hold different elements more important than others.

Budgets are also not really comparable because the processes to make the game or movie or whatever are severely different at their very core. And like I said, the budget they spend is really not relevant to me anyway, only what they cost me relative to the amount of enjoyment they provide. While I truly don't wish to sound insulting or condescending, the answer to the budget thing is basically; I just don't care. If they spend 10 million to make it or 250 million to make it, all I really care about is what it costs me when it's sitting on the shelf of the local shop. Is it a value to me? Does it provide what I'm looking for?

I don't work in films or games so there's no way to itemize a cost analysis of their budgets, especially when I don't consider it a deciding factor. I'd say how about instead of asking why games cost more when their budget it less, why not ask why a film can only entertain me for 2 hours when their budget is bloated compared to what a high end game budget can be? But even when I flip it around like that, it's still a flawed argument. Actors and coders are not comparable in salary. Computers versus HD cameras, film crews costs versus office space rental, they're just so different it's all but impossible to compare them on even terms.

For me, I look at it this way: I can buy the newest Forza and play it for 60 hours. That's a buck per hour of entertainment while a Blu-Ray of The World's End costs $20 or $30; a $10 or $15/hour or greater ratio. If they raise the costs of the games I want, I'd be inclined to reassess the situation. Likewise if the average cost of Blu-Rays were to decline. But that's what they cost relative to what they provide, which is really the only thing I personally take into consideration.

Do I miss Viewtiful Joe?

Only every day. :(

I wasn't attempting to create a point by point comprehensive list of everything that might go into a games manufacturing, simply listing a few common ones.

Spend your money how ever you like. It's none of my business. Everyone perceives value on their own terms. But I disagree with your assessment. How much they spent to create it is irrelevant to the end product. The interactive nature of games may not hold any value to you, but I'd personally rather spend my time playing a game, having an interactive experience, than just passively sitting and watching a film.

Budgets aren't really an issue though. Movies need locations, sets, costumes, extras, etc. Everything in a game exists in a computer except the mo-cap performance and VO work (if any).

Just because a game and a movie can both be sold using the Blu-Ray disc format doesn't mean that they are really comparable in any way. And even though average running time has gotten longer, you're still most likely only going to get 90-120 minutes out of a Blu-Ray and it will always be exactly the same if you revisit it. It's simple reproduction of a work. While games have to account for every angle you might view of every location your character visits. Budgets may be smaller for games, but what you get is far more possible entertainment out of most any game. Well almost. Someone told me that new MGS Ground Zeroes was about movie length. But even that you can replay and have a completely different experience. And it's, what $30? That's the same as I paid for Thor: The Dark World on Blu-Ray.

I remember that game.

It was fun. If they made an update, I'd probably take a look at it. But I don't long for a return of the character or anything.

You must not be drinking the right stuff buddy. :)

Kidding aside, I don't really have a problem with the cost of games in general. If a specific title is crap, then yeah I get pissy having wasted my money. But that applies to anything. If I pay matinee price for a movie ticket I'm still pissed if it's a crappy movie, if I buy a book that is disappointing it doesn't really matter if I bought it hardcover for $40 or paperback for $10, and if I pay for single malt Scotch but it's watered down then I will be upset.

I consider games about the best way to spend my leisure time, but they are a luxury item. And they've actually decreased in price relative to other forms of entertainment. I remember Atari cartridges that were not much less 35 years ago. In the SNES days and N64 days carts could go as high as $70 or $80. So relatively speaking, they're no more costly a hobby today than they were 20 years ago. You won't find a lot of entertainment options that are as unaffected by inflation. Movies cost more today than even 10 years ago, books cost more today than 10 years ago, etc etc. Games though, have been $60 since 2005, almost a decade ago.

With Steam sales I'll often acquire PC versions of games I've already beaten on consoles. Sometimes I do it as building an archive for later, sometimes I do this to try the game out to see if it looks better on PC, and sometimes it's just too cheap to pass up in case I might want to play the game at a later date.

My point is, if you took a look at only my Steam library, you could be forgiven for thinking I've only played a few games to completion when in reality I complete far more than I don't. I just don't always complete them on PC.

Wow, I wonder if it's on clearance. Thanks for the heads up. :)

I had a lot of fun playing the first one co-op with a friend of mine. We went through it a few times.

Never really liked the second one though. Being stuck in just one place for the entire game I think hurt the whole thing. It just wasn't as exciting as the globe-trotting original.

And I loved how silly the gun customization was in the first game, but the second kind of ruined it. The way using the "BLING" option just kind of put a wrapper on whatever gun you were modding was a drag compared to the diamond studded goofy designs in the first game. It made each weapon feel unique in the original, but bland and uninteresting in the second. I dunno, it might be nitpicking but it was much less fun for me.

I never even played Devil's Cartel though. After 40th Day I didn't want to revisit the AoT series.