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btk2k2

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#1 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
The difference would be the human factor. Good programmer can create reasonable efficient code, while ace/experienced programmer can create super efficient code.

In regards to commercial level AMD GPU experience, Sony has about 7 year deficit compared to Turn10.

ronvalencia
VLIW5 is very different to GCN so the tricks used to maximise the 360 GPU will not work on GCN. It is closer than the RSX though because atleast it is unified architecture rather than a split Vertex/Pixel shader design of RSX. The performance advantage of the PS4 is such that even with relatively sloppy code when comparing 1st party exclusives I cannot see the Xbox1 being better on a technical level than PS4. They might have a better artistic design which enables a game to look better subjectively while still being behind on a purely technical standpoint (id Tech 4 vs Source when Doom 3 and HL2 came out. Doom 3 was superior technically but the artistic design of HL meant that to me I preferred the look). When comparing to multiplats though there is no situation in which the code will run faster on the Xbox vs the PS4. It will not happen without purposeful sabotage which also will not happen. Even if the xbox compiler is better than the PS4 compiler it will not make enough of a difference for the Xbox to be ahead. Especially with the more complicated memory architecture that is going to require a lot of optimisation to maximise compared to the incredibly simple PS4 memory system.
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#2 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]No, they are not. You are forgetting to factor in TMUs. Are you claiming X1 has changed it's 16 stream processor: 1 TMU ratio? TFLOPS is nothing without the TMUs.

All GCN parts have 16 SP's to 1 TMU. Which is really 4 TMU's per compute unit(CU). The 7770 has 10 CU's and 40TMU's running at 1,000Mhz which is effectively the same as the Xbox's 12CU's and 48TMU's running at 800Mhz. The 7850 has 16CU's and 64TMU's running at 860Mhz which is marginally slower than the PS4's 18CU's and 72 TMU's running at 800Mhz. The 7850 is 50% faster than the 7770 when compared on the same PC. This is the difference between PS4 and Xbox. It is the same in your charts where the 7850 is 50% faster than the 12CU part running at 825Mhz.
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#3 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
The gap between PS4 and X1 would be minor i.e. PS4 is not sporting 7970 type GPU.ronvalencia
It is the practically the same as a Radeon 7770 vs a Radeon 7850. On the same PC the 7850 is 50% faster at the same quality settings. The performance difference is there and it will be noticeable unless the devs lock the frame rate and the quality settings to be the same on both.
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#4 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
I dunno about that... DR3 looked worse than current-gen corridor games and ran at 15 FPS... The difference seems to be much, much larger than I originally thought it would be.CallOfDutyRulez
That will be because the game is not finished yet. Same with DriveClub on the PS4. It is not fair to make judgements on the performance of the games when they are unfinished and unoptimised.
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#5 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
In the end, the ONE's method of achieving parity is costly and raises the complexity of the architecture.

At least with the PS3, its CELL processor was actually more powerful than the XENOS. In this case, not only is the ONE's hardware much weaker than the PS4's across the board, it's also far more complex to develop for. That's why open-world games like crap graphics run at 15 FPS with tons of pop-ins on the ONE.

CallOfDutyRulez
The One is not even at parity with the memory subsystem. It is still behind, just less so than if they had gone with a single pool of DDR3. It is a more complex and weaker architecture though so it depends on how good the Xbox dev tools are as to how far behind it will be in the multiplats. I still think it will be High vs Very High though which in some games you can barely tell the difference.
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#6 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
[QUOTE="Tadgerot"]My source who works at AMD told me this, when I question the vgleaks specs for Xbox one. "Seems accurate but they do not have detail of the 'move engine' and the esram. The 'move engine' as they put it is out sdma engine which has a desperate encode and decide engine which can operate a synch... They can decode video memory compressed jpegs directly to esram for render by the texture pipe line. Anyhow will see I guess. I've played with the decompress engine myselfm its pretty powerful." Hardware compression/decompression. Th I don't fully understand it. But Xbox does have secret source according to my source. Don't expect to much extra performance from PS4 in comparison.

What your source said was correct but your understanding is flawed. When MS designed the Xbox they wanted 8GB of ram. The only choice they had was DDR3 because the density of GDDR5 was not high enough. The problem with DDR3 is that the bandwidth is very low and with the GPU they wanted to use it would starve it of data and lower performance so they decided to use ESRAM as a frame buffer to help increase the bandwidth. The problem is they could not stick a massive amount of ESRAM into the system so they knew there would be a lot of data transfers between the main memory and the ESRAM. To mitigate the cost of moving all of this data around the system they decided to use hardware encoders and decoders to do the job. This takes the load off of the CPU which will help keep the GPU pipeline fed as the CPU does not have to manage this as well as running the game. This whole system is a way to help make up for the low bandwidth of the DDR3 main memory pool. When Sony were only using 4GB of ram in their system it was a toss up as to which was better but Sony got a bit lucky as GDDR5 memory was available in a high enough density to allow them to use 8GB of it. This swung the advantage firmly in Sony's favour and with the added GPU grunt the PS4 is substantially faster than the Xbox. As I previously said, due to the similarity of the underlying architecture in both consoles there is no instance where the PS4 will run the game code slower than the Xbox. The best the Xbox can hope for is that the developers lock the FPS to 30 or 60 and set the details the same for both consoles. In reality the difference will probably be having the Xbox at 'high' settings and the PS4 at 'very high' settings.
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#7 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts

I think it's kind of ridiculous that people already claim to know which console will perform better. Yes, on paper the PS4 beats the Xbox One, but it's not that simple. What's also going to be a large factor is how efficient the OS is, and I think it's safe to say that Microsoft will probably have the superior OS. So with that in mind, the performance difference between the two will be negligible. 

deeliman
It is that simple in this particular case. The PS4 will be easier to develop on because once you have loaded your data into main memory you have full speed access to all of it all of the time. With the Xbox you have to manage what is in the eSRAM and move stuff around. Even if a dev manages to get it 100% perfect so stuff is in the right place at the right time every single time the Xbox still has less bandwidth. The uarch is the same in both for the CPU and GPU but the PS4 has more GPU grunt (50% more shader, 100% more fillrate), It has higher bandwidth and it is easier to use that bandwidth because it does not require special management to get the best from it. The absolute best case for XBOX from day 1 is that the performance is the same because the developer locks the FPS and the GFX fidelity to be the same on both platforms. In this instance the PS4 will have unused resources.
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#8 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
The big issue here is that in the EU and other territories the chances are this will be illegal. Banning you from the online portion of the system if you abuse it is fine but denying you access to the whole of your collection is theft. The EU love to go after MS at the best of times and I do wonder what will happen in November if these policies have not been changed. It conflicts with so much consumer protection over here that I cannot see MS not ending up in court if they do not change policies.
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#9 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
I have to say Half-Life 2, it just looks and feels right. I find with a lot of other games, Doom 3, Bioshock that it has that slight plastic sheen, in doom it was everywhere, however with Bioshock it only seems to apply to wall textures, but if you load up the demo, look at the steps as you come out of the water, it just looks wrong to me, the light refraction does not seem right tbh and it has that plastic coated look to it and it bugged me through out the entire demo.
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#10 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
[QUOTE="---OkeyDokey---"][QUOTE="rocktimusprime"][QUOTE="---OkeyDokey---"]

[QUOTE="rocktimusprime"]toss MP3 out, i believe youll need a 9.0 and above to even get in contention.rocktimusprime

it won't win, but a nomination is almost certain. zelda was nominated last year.

i dunno, lets check out some games that hit 9.0...

Halo 3, Bioshock, World in Conflict, Forza 2, and the almost guarenteed Mass Effect, SMG, Crysis, thats 6 there. I don't see the pool for GOTY getting bigger than 6, it will probably be narrowed to just 5,

MP3 will def be part of Wii GOTY though.

the pool has been around 10 games in the past.

stop poo pooing mp3 everyone :evil: I love it so much :cry:

OK Ok :)

OK So Here's the possible nominees..

360

Bioshock

Halo 3

Mass Effect

Forza 2

Wii

Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Super Mario Galaxy

Metroid Prime Corruption

PS3

.....

PS2

God of War 2

PC

Crysis

World in Conflict

Multi Plat

Call of Duty 4

Assassin's Creed

Half Life 2 Orange Box

Bioshock is Multiplat.... or atleast add it to the PC section also