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bunkster

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#1 bunkster
Member since 2003 • 721 Posts
[QUOTE="bunkster"]

You misunderstand me, I know the difference between knowledge and intelligence. I was refering to the point that we would never have raised our intelligence from our ape ancestors if it wasnt possible to develop it as a species. The apes did it by working with tools and pushing their own intelligences to the limit for the sake of improved survival.

xaos

I've never seen any research that indicates "pushing one's intelligence" affects the genetic makeup of a species (aside from the obvious case of being able to directly affect genetic material through technology); do you have references for this claim?

The only reference I need is that the jumps in intelligence between species happen. This proves that it is possible. As for the cause, Ive read alot of speculation that states that the apes pushing their intelligence by using tools is the cause for the jump to human intelligence.... this cant be proven yet but it makes alot of sense.

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bunkster

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#2 bunkster
Member since 2003 • 721 Posts
[QUOTE="bunkster"][QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="bunkster"][QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="bunkster"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="bunkster"]And I agree with whoever said that American culture is slowing down the process even more.xaos

Doesn't America have one of the higher birthrates among developed countries? If so, wouldn't that mean it's accelerating the process?

Quality is much more important than quantity.

A lot of people here seem to conflate eugenics and evolution :(

Whats wrong with that? We've manipulated most other things in nature, why shouldnt self-direction of evolution be possible? Its sitting on a sound basis. While one person developing his intelligence to the limits isnt going to change the world, if many people do it than it will eventually have an effect on the genetic level. An example of developing these kind of traits is the Aborigines, research has shown that they have developed far greater tolerance to both hot and cold than other people and this is simply due to them enduring extremes of hot and cold for so long. Similar advances in intelligence should be possible if alot of people develop it instead of taking the lazy instant gratification route popular in American culture.

You misunderstand me; I'm saying a lot of people don't seem to know the difference. People are treating the dumbing down of culture to the biological process of evolution as if they are interchangeable; they are not. And sorry, but somatic changes, such as personal education, do not express themselves as genetic traits. Even if changes to brain cells were shown to occur with increasing intelligence in a single lifetime, that does not affect the zygotes that person can pass on to offspring.

If that were true than advances in intelligence wouldnt be made at all.

How so? First, there is intelligence and there is knowledge. Knowledge is communicated culturally; having a parent with a PhD in math does not produce a child born with a complete understanding of set theory, for instance. Intelligence, the ability to process knowledge, establish connections, etc, can be improved in an individual but someone doing those exercises does not cause their child to be born with more innate intelligence.

You misunderstand me, I know the difference between knowledge and intelligence. I was refering to the point that we would never have raised our intelligence from our ape ancestors if it wasnt possible to develop it as a species. The apes did it by working with tools and pushing their own intelligences to the limit for the sake of improved survival.

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bunkster

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#3 bunkster
Member since 2003 • 721 Posts
[QUOTE="bunkster"][QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="bunkster"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="bunkster"]And I agree with whoever said that American culture is slowing down the process even more.xaos

Doesn't America have one of the higher birthrates among developed countries? If so, wouldn't that mean it's accelerating the process?

Quality is much more important than quantity.

A lot of people here seem to conflate eugenics and evolution :(

Whats wrong with that? We've manipulated most other things in nature, why shouldnt self-direction of evolution be possible? Its sitting on a sound basis. While one person developing his intelligence to the limits isnt going to change the world, if many people do it than it will eventually have an effect on the genetic level. An example of developing these kind of traits is the Aborigines, research has shown that they have developed far greater tolerance to both hot and cold than other people and this is simply due to them enduring extremes of hot and cold for so long. Similar advances in intelligence should be possible if alot of people develop it instead of taking the lazy instant gratification route popular in American culture.

You misunderstand me; I'm saying a lot of people don't seem to know the difference. People are treating the dumbing down of culture to the biological process of evolution as if they are interchangeable; they are not. And sorry, but somatic changes, such as personal education, do not express themselves as genetic traits. Even if changes to brain cells were shown to occur with increasing intelligence in a single lifetime, that does not affect the zygotes that person can pass on to offspring.

If that were true than advances in intelligence wouldnt be made at all.

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bunkster

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#4 bunkster
Member since 2003 • 721 Posts
[QUOTE="bunkster"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="bunkster"]And I agree with whoever said that American culture is slowing down the process even more.xaos

Doesn't America have one of the higher birthrates among developed countries? If so, wouldn't that mean it's accelerating the process?

Quality is much more important than quantity.

A lot of people here seem to conflate eugenics and evolution :(

Whats wrong with that? We've manipulated most other things in nature, why shouldnt self-direction of evolution be possible? Its sitting on a sound basis. While one person developing his intelligence to the limits isnt going to change the world, if many people do it than it will eventually have an effect on the genetic level. An example of developing these kind of traits is the Aborigines, research has shown that they have developed far greater tolerance to both hot and cold than other people and this is simply due to them enduring extremes of hot and cold for so long. Similar advances in intelligence should be possible if alot of people develop it instead of taking the lazy instant gratification route popular in American culture.

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bunkster

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#5 bunkster
Member since 2003 • 721 Posts

[QUOTE="bunkster"]And I agree with whoever said that American culture is slowing down the process even more.Oleg_Huzwog

Doesn't America have one of the higher birthrates among developed countries? If so, wouldn't that mean it's accelerating the process?

Quality is much more important than quantity.

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bunkster

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#6 bunkster
Member since 2003 • 721 Posts
He was a regular guy, but with a superior sense of morality and greater wisdom than 99.9 percent of other people, and he wasn't afraid to speak his mind. I think that he didnt literally believe that heaven and hell existed, but yet used those terms as an example of what the world can be like if everyone followed his teachings and what the world will be like if mankind continues its self destructive course. He knew that the ignorant masses *would* take him seriously when he talked about heaven and hell but if it leads the people to live good lives than who cares about a little deception? Its too bad that people corrupted his essentially wise and good words and turned them into reasons to start 'Holy wars' and all that other bs.
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#7 bunkster
Member since 2003 • 721 Posts
Evolution eventually gave us aristotle, out of the common ancestor of single celled organisms. Who can tell what else is possible through evolution? Any big change will probably take unimaginable amounts of time however. And I agree with whoever said that American culture is slowing down the process even more.
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#8 bunkster
Member since 2003 • 721 Posts
Deus Ex was the perfect line I believe between linearity and non-linearity. It gave the player incredible freedom to accomplish a task in the manner in which the player sees fit, and it also gave the player free rein to roam virtual real world locales which allowed alot of character interaction and exploration to take place. All the while it still kept the interesting storyline and scripted events of linear shooters when you did the missions. Alas, a game like Deus Ex might be beyond most developers ability.
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