Ha a couple of years funny

@Blabadon: I don't see any reason or logic in your post. Uncharted any many other tps and action games use the cover system that Gears itself refined and innovated on. Uncharted probably wouldn't be what it is if not for Gears being created.

Just like we would not have more cinematic games if Uncharted did not popularize that style.

And the sad thing is that people say that both games ruined gaming due to people copying them. Well, I do not know why you said that, but sure isn't true

Well, when you look at in simple terms, it does.

The environment itself occupies this space. If I were to separate this space and the objects that it contains, what does that leave me to take advantage of?

In this case, it is appropriate to say that the sword itself is a tool, but it is a tool that allows you to take advantage of the terrain. When we look at more hands on traversal in games like Assassin's Creed, the body of the protagonist is a tool in itself. The ability to traverse the environment is pointless by itself, but when you can actually initiate attacks, that is when we would most consider that it has been given a role in combat. Now when you have a weapon that allows you to traverse an environment and take advantage of the more vertical design.

Combat itself has many layers to besides the exchange of blows. You have strategy, tactics, weapons and many other things to consider. What all of these things do is give you more choices in how you approach a situation. Things such as contextual and scripted attacks that are linked to specific areas objects in the an area serve the environment a role, albeit one that is that really serves no purpose beyond being a quicker or flashier way to dispose of an enemy.

Out of curiousity, I want @elheber@Lulu_Lulu or anyone one to mention an ARPG where they believe the envrionment plays a role in combat

Yeah.... you have to actually see it to know what I mean because it may sound the same, but having a sword that allows you to warp around the battle field has way more uses then the grappling hook in the Arkham games, where you basically grapple to the next vintage point after taking someone out. However, like I said, I just see that ass another way of giving the player the ability to use the environment to his advantage, which is a different way of giving the environment a role in combat.

I see what you mean though. However, you have to give me some examples in games that have a weapon based melee system.

The grappling hook in gotham is limited to traversal and to grapple in enemies for a takedown. I would say that the warping is more of a tool that allows you to take advantage of the environment. It is really like another tactical tool. Looking at shooters, the importance of the environment is rooted in having a place to take cover and gain a strategic advantage, whether it be by gaining higher ground or flanking.

Now, I guess that you can say that it is not the environment itself, but it is still a tool that allows you to take advantage of the environment. A tower becomes a means to survey the environment or a means to find a safe place to recover. In fact, the recent trailer for the updated demo showcased the protagonist unleashing a dive attack from a tower or elevated object that he was hanging from. To be fair, we do not know how far the changes go. Also, you can take cover behind rocks to recover.

I see it as another layer of environmental mechanics in melee combat. We must also consider that the combat system itself will determine how you take advantage of the combat.

The most recent example I can think of is FFXV. Your sword can be thrown in to a lot of surfaces and you can warp to those locations. You can even hang on certain building as objects to survey the battlefield, get out of danger and gain a tactical advantage over your opponent. It is also a good way to travel from enemy to enemy fast

Eh. To be fair, they added a lot of new moves. Sad to say, it seems like the same thing at its core, but with more variety in the tools at your disposal in combat. Now, I believe the predator and gadgets may be where the new additions become more obvious and and more depth and tactics. There is a batarang that allows you to gather intel on an area, but there is no telling how much freedom and choice you have in using it. The disruptor has also been upgraded in to a rifle that has many uses and can be used from long ranges.

Not sure what they have done with detective mode, but the batmoblie even has it

You really should kind of admit that you were wrong. I do not think the game lacks variety in gameplay, but emil gave you plenty of examples. i would eve say that spiderman games based off of the movies (mainly 3) were the beginning of that kind of combat system. And everyone knows that Shadow of Mordor heavily bowrowed from Arkham's combat system. The new Mad Max game is going for a similar style

Yeah, I for one do not see where we can go story wise

Eh. Well, we all know that it will get tons of awards just lot some of the other big games releasing this year. It is definitely the game that I am expecting the most from. The amount of freedom seems like it will be immense. Choice in route, time of infiltration, tactics, equipment, intel....It...WOW. I am still pumped to play TW3 and Arkham Knight and other games too