I'm not trying to compare just music, but all entertainment mediums. All of them have mainstream crap, but they all also have a deeper hardcore side to them. You ignore my point completely.

My point is that despite there being crap like Brittany, and Jessica, both of whom sell exceptionally well, there are also the likes of Norah Jones and Nuttin' but Stringz. What I am saying is that with out the mainstream legitimacy can never happen. It was the same for rock and roll, comic books, movies.

This is just part of the evolution of any entertainment medium.

And I am glad that you are so uncultured that you know no one that listens to classical music, next you will tell me you know no one that listens to Frank and Tony either.

[QUOTE="Ibacai"]Quite possible, I just don't see the point after Sony's big talk about getting back to one sku and sticking with it. Who knows?the-very-best

lol, I don't think that means much to Sony. "Rumble is last gen", "Rumble is coming back!"

I think after the 60GB is sold out, they'll introduce another SKU into the market. I personally think the 60Gb should be the only SKU in the market, with a lower price and no 80GB.

It is actually cheaper to make the 80 then the 60 even if they keep the EE in the system, it only makes sense to move on to the 80.

Also this MS guy is off his rocker. Sony will not cut features, that was why they got rid of the 20 model, that is why every system has a HDD.

Sony will continue to pass on the value to the consumer because it truly believes in its system, something MS I don't believe does, they have yet to issue a price drop despite making a dollar on the 360 for sometime now.

I never said get rid of the MGS, the Zelda etc.

One that won't ever happen, why because those games sell ridiculously well.

Two they are the foundation of which videogaming is built.

Getting rid of them is like trying to stop people from creating classical music, I'm talking about Bach, Bethoven, Mozart. People still create this kind of music, is it the most popular. No but it warrants some of the highest regard as far as music goes. Why, because this is what all music started out as.

Take Metal for example. If you look at the complexity of Metal you would confuse it with the likes of some of the greatest works of all time, it is classical music down with modern instruments. There is a following, was Metal ruined by pop, do bands not inspire to be like the Beatles because of Brittany.

Your argument is debunk

Also, you said that your dad liked the wii games golf right. Well this is funny because it brings me to my Grandfather. Huge Golf fan right, so one day I am playing my GC, Tiger Woods gold and he asks me how to play, I show him and now he plays Tiger Woods and Baseball Games all the time, my grandfather plays games.

You should try the same with your dad, get him into sports games if that is what he likes.

You just have to sit back and see what people are going to be receptive too.

Think about this, what if schools start using Wii's in Phys Ed, now little girls and boys enjoy it so much they have their parents go get one, the same kids that might not have ever taken intrest, now through time they slowly move through the ranks and by the time they are 20 something years old they are now "hardcore".

Don't think this is possible, Virginia or West Virginia, uses DDR in their Phys ED classes to promote exercise.

And how is that diffrent from going and seeing a movie that isn't great. I am a very selective person, I like the whole idea of something being epic, I envision great change and wild emotions.

Yet the majority of movies are crap, crap that I don't see but many people do because they are casual. Would you say that movies are ruined because of this, no because at the end of the year when the Academy Awards role, everyone finds out who did the best job.

Same with music, there is so much junk out there, but at the end of the year look at who wins the grammies. It's Norah Jones.

The point is that Nintendo is trying to do something that none of you seem to see. It is trying to legitamize gaming as a media format. The only way to do that is to have a broad appeal and yes you are going to have to make some sacrifices, but I promise the rewards us gamers shall reap will be ten fold when the gaming industry is accepted as something that is not kiddy but rather entertaining.

Once again I want to point out the reason that Nintendo probably did this is because the Hardcore already know about Zelda and SMG. People didn't know about WiiFit.

In fact did you not notice the press coverage the WiiFit got. Excluding dedicated sites I saw very little about Halo 3, Assasains Creed, RE5, SMG, MGS4 on CNN, FocNews etc, but the WiiFit, was all over those news outlets.

Stop being so closed minded.

Great post. The sheep want to say that yes, people can move on from Wii Fit to say Zelda. Personally, I have yet to see it happen. The only times I've ever seen somebody move on from something like say Tetris or Guitar Hero to more serious games is when myself or one of my friends has actually helped them along in the process. There are several people I know who don't play a ton of games but bought a Wii for Wii Sports. What have they moved on to from there? Mario Party, Wario Ware, Wii Play. Hardly what I call hardcore games. What is the game they want next? Not SMG, not Metroid, but you guessed it... Wii Fit.

Like I said, the first game myself and several of my friends started with was Super Mario Bros. I can see moving on from that to something like Zelda or Metal Gear. But I have never seen somebody move from Guitar Hero to Metal Gear Solid.

Gamer46

Let me ask you a question. How do you learn to read great literary arts?? Do you one day pick up "Of War and Peace" or "The Great Gatsby" or "Catch-22". Def not, you learn first with easy simple tasks, then slowly progress to something harder and harder.

You guys undercutting the Wii is fool hearted. What you "hardcore" gamers need to be doing is in fact introducing the Wii to your parents, your wives, kids, friends, neighbors, and everyone else and teaching them games can be fun just like great literary art.

I ask that you seriously read all my posts all on pages 12, 13, 14, etc as I believe have made more then a grandiose argument for the Wii.

Polaris...Umm Argument 1. No CD was way cheaper to go with. It cost something like 6 dollars to make a cartridge vs pennies for a CD.

Argument 2, no it was to deter people from stealing their IP's and protecting everyone who Dev'd for the system and it was a gaming machine.

Argument 3, MS designed nothing in either of their systems, everything is off the shelf. And Nintendo has more money in their Gaming Dept then either Sony or MS so that argument is debunk as well. They have more then enough money to do whatever the hell they want.

Were there any numbers in that massive wall of a TP stating how much it cost to produce a game that doesn't sell well? If not, then the argument is unfinished.

Even though crap doesn't sell, Crap is cheap to make. A good game that sells well, does cost a lot to make. So, it is still possible that there is more money to be made in failures of cheap games than there are in the successes of costly ones. If this were true, it would only reinforce the fact that 3rd party devs should continue to produce crap. Total sales is only one half of this equation...you see?

Wii now provides an outlet for all these cheap and unsuccesful games (that make the most profit) to come out. Thus, it would be ruining gaming, all the while selling hardcore games the most.

It's a clever little trick they've got you on.

whoisryanmack

Disgaea...your argument in now debunk

dlp21 pretty much said it! THAT's how Hardcore gamer like us are BORN! We have to start out somewhere.I started on my beloved NES with the original SMB and moved on to MK, then Tekken, then GTA, Halo and the rest. I still haven't forgotten my roots but damn fark it if I'm gonna believe Nintendo is, as some people here are trying to say, "They ARe TeH Da Gata RuingAdAtA The GamaGadagata!" If the game is fun, then I'm there to play it! Same thing with my cousins and aunt. They have NEVER touched a game machine in their life till the Wii. I started them off on a steady diet of Wii-Sports and Wario ware. Then move them on to Mario Party and SPM. Since they are Table Tennis fanatics (we are all Chinese decent and Chinese LOVES Ping Pong), They are waiting hands and foot on Rockstar Presents: Table Tennis. Next will be Madden football and then SMG and SSBB before MP. That's the road to hardcore gaming! It doesn't start overnight you know and the wii hater here only focus their attention on "The Nintendo-AHHH OnlY Wnats-Ga TeH Casual-GA and Non-GamERNaHaDA!! Oh, NOESSSS! They aRe TeH RuinANANAGA TeH GAMaGHA!!!" ....And completely forget that what Nintendo said was they want everyone, hardcore, casuals AND non-gamers!

StryderK

I thank you for the acknowledgement and would like to go on and share even some more experiences centered around the Wii. I have now seen personally 6 people transformed into gamers. Are they playing Rainbow Six LV...no, but that isn't where you start someone.

Not only has my Mom and GF turned to gaming but I know many of my friends wives, and girlfriends have too. I personally have seen 4 of my best friends wives and girlfriends playing videogames. Being a huge technology geek altogether I asked them how long have they been playing and time and time again it turns out they just started, whether it was Wii Sports or Guitar Hero everyone is getting into gaming now and it is in fact the responsibilty of companies like Nintendo to not ignore them.

You will still get your games, I promise, in fact over time I believe it will be because of this casual gamerer phenom that the games we do get will be far superior to anything we have seen in the past. How does this work, well if you can make a simple game that is fun, addictive, simple, it generates money. Money is then reinvested into the company to make new games, but companies aren't going to be stagnant and just explore casual, they will drop a lot of it into making great games. Why do you ask?

Well because as more people accept videogames it will gather more merit and it will only be a matter of time until videogames gets its Academy Awards and Grammys. Sure we have videogame awards right now, but I am talking about them being on par with the aformentioned ceromonies. It is this simple ability to garnish a Game of the Year award that will drive the best dev teams to create the best, most artistic, storytelling, gameplaying game ever.

Sure there will be crap...sure there will be greatness that doesn't do well, but if that greatness gets that GOTY award, it won't matter to that publisher and dev team if they made a dime on the game, why, because it leads to credibility which leads to people holding your company in higher regard which in turn leads to later profitable returns.