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fathoms_basic

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#2 fathoms_basic
Member since 2002 • 22116 Posts
[QUOTE="fathoms_basic"]

I notice you completely overlooked my point about reading the reviews and watching the trailers

MarcusAntonius

Wait.....are you honestly telling me you haven't played Lost Odyssey? You actually have the unmitigated gall to come in here and say THIS-

"The game is sheere mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock...I will not reward trash. So much for next-gen gaming."

You come in here with this filth and base it off second-hand information, acting like you know what the hell you're talking about? Are you actively serious? This is just...pathetic. Don't talk to me anymore.

Then I guess game trailers and reviews are worthless, eh? Are you trying to say that you and your colleagues have no credibility? Are you saying that all game reviews are BS? That's pretty arrogant.

I'm telling you that me and my colleagues play the goddamn game before issuing a review. I'm telling you we don't say to the publishers, "bah, don't need the review copy; we'll just watch a few videos and read other reviews." I'm telling you that the game reviews you're reading didn't do that. I'm telling you that if you issue a post like THAT for a game you've NEVER played, your credibility is SHOT.

Period.

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fathoms_basic

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#3 fathoms_basic
Member since 2002 • 22116 Posts

I notice you completely overlooked my point about reading the reviews and watching the trailers

Wait.....are you honestly telling me you haven't played Lost Odyssey? You actually have the unmitigated gall to come in here and say THIS-

"The game is sheere mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock...I will not reward trash. So much for next-gen gaming."

You come in here with this filth and base it off second-hand information, acting like you know what the hell you're talking about? Are you actively serious? This is just...pathetic. Don't talk to me anymore.

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fathoms_basic

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#4 fathoms_basic
Member since 2002 • 22116 Posts
[QUOTE="fathoms_basic"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="fathoms_basic"]

Marcus: If Atlus had made this game, you'd be raving about it. All the "l33t" RPG fans like yourself would just "understand" how great it is while all the "casual" RPGers have no clue because it's not called Final Fantasy. Good God...you are WAY too predictable.

MarcusAntonius

Fathoms, if anyone here acts "l33t" its you. Oh that's right, I forgot, anyone who levels legitimate criticism at anything Final Fantasy is just acting "l33t" and just hates on popular games right?:roll:

If you prefer to demand less for your money, that's your business, but don't make it everyone else's. Your antagonizing nature is getting really old. Oh by the way, I didn't drag Final Fantasy into this discussion, so I don't know why you're making an issue of it. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time you talked out of your ass just to troll on someone.

I doubt anything you've ever said in your rampant bashings of FF and mainstream RPGs can be considered "legitimate." You are predictable because if the game might appeal to mainstream gamers, you will immediately condemn it. This is the very definition of elitism, and it's irritating. In no way is what I said antagonistic, and I actually offered some useful comments about the game, rather than your obscenely negative words that in no way reflected the quality of the game. Have you ever wondered why so many critics always disagree with you? Ever wondered why you're in the minority? You probably enjoy that.

...just another way of proving to yourself you're better than the majority. I've been around gaming far longer than you, and I know all about this way of thinking. It's annoying, and to come in here and say things about LO that have no basis whatsoever - and you refused to provide any evidence or basis - is both lame and unhelpful. Take it or leave it, champ.

Again, you speak out of total ignorance. You don't anything about me, my tastes in gaming, nor how long I've been gaming. But frankly, I have better things to do than to whip out my gaming credentials and since you insist upon talking out of your ass, there really isn't much room for a rational discussion.

As far as evidence or basis, the proof is in the reviews and gameplay trailers, they're put out there for a reason, so take it or leave it chump, er, I mean champ. Great, now here comes the cliche riddled rant about how I'm a corporate gamer that only purchases games with high review scores, let me save you the trouble there.:lol:

Just because someone doesn't worship at the altar of FF VII doesn't mean that they're bashing everything "mainstream."

Ironic. You claim I know nothing about you, and you continually pin me down as some rabid FF fanboy. ...yeah, you know a great deal about me, I can tell. :roll: Just because I don't appreciate your ridiculous slander of that series - I've read your "legitimate complaints;" a half-conscious Jack Thompson could do better - doesn't mean I "worship" anything. And you're missing my point- you're not the "corporate gamer" who only buys games based on high review scores; you're basically the opposite. You love to claim the reviewers are all idiots and YOU'RE the authority on the matter; you constantly try to prove it in just about every post you make. That much I know.

Here's what else I know- your comments regarding Lost Odyssey in this thread, shown in your first post, are baseless, primarily because you pass judgment without providing anything of any real substance. We're all wondering if you've even played the game. In the end, you play games and comment on them to feed your ego, which is evidently the size of Montana. I play games for fun, and review them as best I can. Oh, there's a difference between us. I don't need to impose my will on others by entering a thread and proclaiming something to be absolute "trash" for no reason whatsoever. Tame the ego. Please.

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fathoms_basic

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#5 fathoms_basic
Member since 2002 • 22116 Posts
Just to clarify, this game is coming to the PS3 and Xbox 360, too.
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#6 fathoms_basic
Member since 2002 • 22116 Posts

Now, I'm not accusing any individual here, but speaking in general, but I really don't understand why Lost Odyssey is being criticised for lacking innovation or being too traditional. Are these the same group that criticised FFXII for being too different, and the same who praised Dragon Quest VIII for keeping with the traditional and old school mechanics?

Anyway, Lost Odyssey does a lot of things right. Blue Dragon's disappointment is understandable, but it seems like Lost Odyssey is what a JRPG should be about: a good story (better than most JRPGs, and I mean this with the sincerity of my heart), better characters (much better than FFX, XII, or Blue Dragon in my opinion), a mature story-line, great graphics, and a long quest (unlike Mass Effect's 12 hour single player campaign). It does a lot of things right based on what I'm hearing about, yet it's being criticised for not pushing the envelope or doing something original to the genre.

I think Gamespot's review says it right when they say some patience and commitment to play this game goes a long way and it's rewarding. This shouldn't be a complaint or a criticism to this game IMO, because as a JRPG player since FFIII on the SNES, every RPG takes patience and commitment to play. That should be a given. It should be expected. We should be used to loading times by now (nothing can get worse than Skies of Arcadia), or turn-based battles, random encounters etc. Last time I checked, Dragon Quest VIII's battle system is the most traditional you can get, and even though it's my favorite JRPG of last-gen, I even admit the game can get boring as hell. But I stuck through it and got a rewarding experience.

Take it from me, but to be honest, every JRPG or WRPG are boring, boring, boring, slow, sluggish games that take lots and lots of patience, commitment, and time to play through. It doesn't matter if its KoTOR, Oblivion, FFXII, FFX, Dragon Quest VIII, or Lost Odyssey, RPGs is a very boring genre. But why do we still love it and play it religiously? Because something about sticking through it is rewarding.

I think Lost Odyssey is being overly criticised. Like I said, it does a lot of things right for a JRPG and it seems like a great game with a story that's actually something worth caring about. After wading through a sludge of stupid shallow JRPGs ( believe me, I played them all), a mature storyline that's a traditional JRPG should be refreshing. So I'm for Sakaguchi and Lost Odyssey. I just hope RPG fans give it a fair shake and see that it really could be a great experience. I think it's waaaaaay better and stronger than FFX just from what I'm hearing about it, and last time I remember, FFX was quite traditional, not to mention way to linear, and cookie cutter characters and story. And it's made by the same guy.

People complained about FFXII. And now Lost Odyssey is being criticised for being to traditional. This really makes no sense to me.

ASK_Story

Well said. Kudos and a cookie. :)

Thing is, you can't satisfy everyone all the time. But I really despise those who go out of their way to find fault; those who focus on the negatives rather than the positives. Obviously, if there's more negative than positive, that makes sense, but this isn't usually the case. So far, I don't see Lost Odyssey even beginning to approach FFX, but I still have high hopes for LO.

By the way, if you love the genre, how can you call RPGs "boring?" That's a very subjective term, and why would you want to keep playing something you find boring? That part confused me. :?

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#8 fathoms_basic
Member since 2002 • 22116 Posts
[QUOTE="fathoms_basic"]

During the game, you will unlock memories for Kaim, and those are relayed in standard prose form with some nice ambiance provided by blurred - yet artistic - images and a bit of fitting background music. Basically, you read these dreams, and they are surprisingly lengthy. But even more surprisingly, they're written with a clean, professional hand, with very few wasted words and an exhibited skill for conveying emotion. These mini-stories are very well done, and I also think Mistwalker took the correct approach in their delivery. They don't attach faces and voices to the memories, which in turn gives them the appropriate sensation of distance. We are, after all, learning about the memories of an individual, so of course we should get that information in a removed, second-hand manner. I enjoy reading, and I think this is very well done.

EazyB

Well I decided to start LO even though I'm in the middle of Eternal Sonata and haven't touched my copy of Blue Dragon. I've put about an hour into it and have just read the first story. I totally agree with Fathoms, I'm not a big reader but the short story was really well done. As everyone knows, there are many strengths in expressing things in writing, things that couldn't be performed on any other medium. LO is taking advantage of these strengths to flesh out the story and give insight into the lives of the characters in a way that could never be communicated ingame or even during cutscene. This is why I'm happy Mistwalker included these, they aren't wording and sterile, but quick heartfelt snippets that are portrayed well.

Anyways, back to playing.

I'm glad to see someone else appreciates it. I guess it's the kind of thing that will either enhance or detract from one's enjoyment of the game, and for me, it greatly enhances it.

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#9 fathoms_basic
Member since 2002 • 22116 Posts

My issue really isn't in whether the game is turn based or not, honestly...and to a degree, random battles don't bother me as much, so long as those two elements are given a decent sense of brisk pacing if I want it to, in order to help minimize drag that can occur from possibly being thrown into battle constantly with little control of whether or not I have to engage in it. If I came off a bit too polarizing on the issue earlier to some, I apologize.

Etrian Odyssey was an example of a game, for me, that had nice, rapid pacing in combat that made falling into random battles not a terrible chore, and Persona 3's combat was enjoyable for me, though it would've been nice to have more direct control over the full party. Final Fantasy X and X-2 both were games I found enjoyable in the combat and levelling mechanics (Though, realistically, I thought FFX's levelling mechanic was more interesting at its core, while the design and pacing of X-2's combat got the edge from me in that regard).

Given other impressions that I've picked up regarding the game (namely in how the skill system is given more emphasis for effective progress against bosses as opposed to strict levelling), I'm probably going to give this game a shot sometime when I have the ability to invest a good 10-20 hours into it over the course of a few days to get a good feel for the combat and other mechanics. Perhaps in context, the pacing of the combat may not be as jarring as some of the videos show it to be, but that's something I'll only be able to see when I play the game.

Skylock00

Nah, there's no need to apologize. I just didn't like the tone this topic was taking, because I've heard it all a million times before, and the argument never holds any water. I never played Etrian Odyssey so unfortunately, I can't offer anything intelligent about that one, but I agree on FFX and FFX-2. I liked the Sphere Grid in X, and I was once again reminded just how different every FF since VI had been.

As for Lost Odyssey, I'd just like to provide my early impressions for you or anyone else who might be interested-

First of all, being a writer, I'm consistently disappointed by the lack of decent writing in the video game realm. It IS getting better, and I can always turn to the likes of Kojima and MGS for a compelling and well-done story. But it should definitely be popping up more in the role-playing realm, because...well, because it makes sense. If I had gotten into Mass Effect, I'd like to think that one had some promise for solid writing and character development, because I've heard nothing but good things. However, it's very rare for me to find something in a game where I say to myself, "wow, that's actually pretty good." I said that tonight with Lost Odyssey.

During the game, you will unlock memories for Kaim, and those are relayed in standard prose form with some nice ambiance provided by blurred - yet artistic - images and a bit of fitting background music. Basically, you read these dreams, and they are surprisingly lengthy. But even more surprisingly, they're written with a clean, professional hand, with very few wasted words and an exhibited skill for conveying emotion. These mini-stories are very well done, and I also think Mistwalker took the correct approach in their delivery. They don't attach faces and voices to the memories, which in turn gives them the appropriate sensation of distance. We are, after all, learning about the memories of an individual, so of course we should get that information in a removed, second-hand manner. I enjoy reading, and I think this is very well done.

The story is going along well so far. Most will complain there's not enough combat, and after two and a half hours, I suppose I can agree. But I have spent a good deal of time exploring, and I've liked the cut-scenes thanks to good voice-acting, although I get the sneaking suspicion there's an entirely different writer behind the dialogue and the dream sequences written as fiction. I've just started to scratch the surface of both the Skill Link system and the Ring Assembly, but both seem straightforward and - hopefully - nicely implemented. There are some technical difficulties in the jerkiness of a few of the cut-scenes, the soundtrack isn't great (so far), and I'm not a fan of the basic control when just running around with Kaim (it's far too loose). I also haven't had enough time with the Ring system in battle, but I certainly would've liked more definition in both rings, so it'd be easier to get the timing right. But all in all, I think Lost Odyssey has a lot of promise, and I'm happy with the purchase. I'm not sure exactly what it is you're looking for, but I think it is important to remind everyone that they should enjoy stories and reading in general. It's not exactly Joyce or Milton, but for video games, the writing is quite impressive so far.

Done for now. :)

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#10 fathoms_basic
Member since 2002 • 22116 Posts

The FF franchise has remained fresh from Day 1, with no entries that could be considered any sort of "downfall," and anybody who says otherwise gets zero respect from me. I'll make that plain right off the bat.

Secondly, if I have to hear the argument that says something like Lost Odyssey is "trash" because it's not real-time like Mass Effect and doesn't introduce an entirely new battle mechanic, I'm going to have some kind of meltdown. It's this kind of mentality that says games deserve 2s and 3s just because they don't fit a certain definition of "advancement" or "next-generation." Nobody has ever proven that real-time mechanics are in any way deeper or more intricate than turn-based mechanics, and even though I realize we're in the day and age where constant button-mashing is required for "quality," I'd rather not lend an ear to such a ridiculous argument.

There are many different styles and kinds of RPGs. At the rate we're going, we'll end up with ONE style of RPG just because of a decidedly elitist theory that turn-based is out-of-date or old-fashioned. We're a society that craves constant stimulation. Is it any surprise that the same people who complain about this style also can't sit still long enough to cut their fingernails? They always want to skip any and all cut-scenes because they're "useless?" No, it's not surprising. And if you game this way, more power to you. But to level criticism at the game because it doesn't fit the so-called "forward" way of thinking is irritating. No...more than irritating. Go play Oblivion again and just leave me alone, that's all I've got to say.

Marcus: If Atlus had made this game, you'd be raving about it. All the "l33t" RPG fans like yourself would just "understand" how great it is while all the "casual" RPGers have no clue because it's not called Final Fantasy. Good God...you are WAY too predictable.