[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Yes, I do.Laihendi

so the conscious individual will always beat the "non-person" in contest?

so you contradict your earlier agreement to the statement "individuals are better in all ways compared to non-persons"

no matter... would you agree to this statement instead: "individuals are better in all meaningfull (as you have described) ways compared to non-persons"?

you mentioned that the non-person is Superior to the individual in the ways of destruction. is that true in matters both physical and ideological?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] How do I deny liberty from a collectivist when the political ideology he asserts requires that he has no liberty to begin with? @ Frank Zappa - An individual is a reasoning creature who is conscience of his existence. The boon is identity, meaning, purpose, achievement, pride, happiness, etc. The fault of not being one is nonexistence. For a creature that lacks an identity, there is no meaning, purpose, achievement, pride, or happiness. The creature eventually dies without the satisfaction of having experienced life.Laihendi

would you say that the conscious individual is superior in every way to the "non-person"?

so the conscious individual will always beat the "non-person" in contest?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Add representative democracy to the many numbered list of things that Laihendi does not understand. It's funny that you want to invoke the Constitution when that document gives us all the right to vote for people to represent us, and gives those representatives the power to levy taxes.

Ace6301

If you have not yet caught on, his point is that his ideology does not effect other people financially.

not that i agree with him.

i wish lai would respond to my posts, we had a good dialogue going.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Add representative democracy to the many numbered list of things that Laihendi does not understand. It's funny that you want to invoke the Constitution when that document gives us all the right to vote for people to represent us, and gives those representatives the power to levy taxes.

worlock77

If you have not yet caught on, his point is that his ideology does not effect other people financially.

not that i agree with him.

Sure it does. If he had his way, for example, all roads would be private for-profits. I can't imagine what the excessive amount of tolls to maintain and generate profit from such a system would do to most people's wallets, not only in upfront costs of their own, but shipping costs, etc.

i didn't say it was true but that seemed to be what he was asserting.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I think it gives me personally a right to blah blah blah blah? No you idiot. I don't. I get one vote. Same as you. I vote based on my principals. You vote on yours.

worlock77

Add representative democracy to the many numbered list of things that Laihendi does not understand. It's funny that you want to invoke the Constitution when that document gives us all the right to vote for people to represent us, and gives those representatives the power to levy taxes.

If you have not yet caught on, his point is that his ideology does not effect other people financially.

not that i agree with him.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Define individual. To be clear, most creatures who call themselves people are not individuals. They are violent savages, and that is expressed in the violent political ideologies they espouse. That is why democracy is such a violent political system - it results in a political expression of the violent tendencies of the wild masses participating in it. I respect the rights of individuals, including myself. People like us need a constitutional government to protect us from the aforementioned creatures.Laihendi

Gotta love a so-called champion of liberty who would deny liberty to, well, basically anyone who doesn't share his exact views.

would you say that the conscious individual is superior in every way to the "non-person"?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]The purpose of a government is to ensure that rights of each individual are respected by each other individual. That is why we have a judicial system and a police system (obviously these are both highly corrupt in the US, but that is not the point).Laihendi

So an individual will not of his own free will respect the rights of another individual?

What are the boons of being an individual?

what are the faults of not being one?

What makes a human ( anything of the species homo sapien) become an individual as opposed to a "non-person"

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] The question of what happens to a government is not relevant to the conditions proper to and necessary for the existence of life qua man. Individuals are responsible for establishing a government that protects their rights, and if they are not satisfied with a government then their options are 1. emigration 2. changing the policies of an existing government (voting, political activism, running for office, etc.) 3. revolutionLaihendi

So are individuals supposed to respect the rights of other individuals as opposed to a governing body respecting thos rights?

So an individual will not of his own free will respect the rights of another individual?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]That word represents an acknowledgement of the conditions proper (and to an extent necessary) for our existence. No one claims that a natural right is some mystical power that will protect people from harm. It is the responsibility of men (governments) to enable and protect the conditions proper/necessary to our existence as men, but only objective reality can determine what those conditions are.Laihendi

Ok, now give us some real world or theoretical examples.

for instance what happens to the government that neglects "rights"?

So are individuals supposed to respect the rights of other individuals as opposed to a governing body respecting thos rights?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]I will someday though it is not a high priority item on my reading list right now. Also, a right is a moral concept defining and sanctioning a man's freedom of action within a social context. The standard of value of value used to determine what a man possesses as a right is his life. A right is a concept necessary for men to coexist qua men. The right to live is not a legal privilege but a fundamental necessity.Laihendi

Yes, but why.

How is a "right" anymore then a word?

Ok, now give us some real world or theoretical examples.

for instance what happens to the government that neglects "rights"?