Thank you, i will add them.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

Technocrats and all the other statists are too conservative for believing in work. Playfulness and idleness are superior for the self. I wish to do things for the experience, rather than a carrot at the end of a stick. Compulsory labour is rot. A system designed for work is a system designed for misery. Work sucks, and is not in my rational self intrest.

RushKing

Entertainment and idleness (on an individual level) is highly valued and is granted to anyone who contributes to the society. Technocracy advocates a limited socialism but maintains that citizens must work to advance the nation-state so that the nation-state (and the citizens themselves) may remain healthy and strong.

Pure socialism is vulnerable to outside forces and greatly limits what mankind can do.

you are illogical if you don't as you can gain anything you want by merely applieng youself in the way you are best able.

contribution can be measured objectively. if you work as part of a government think tank you are contributing, if design airplanes you are contributing, if you fix cars you are contributing...etc. it is quite easy to tell if what you have done or what your situation is demands a mansion or a two bedroom house.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Jimn_tonic"]

Well, actually, slavery is what made Americas economy in the first place. The only thing better than cheap labour is free labour!

Chemistian

we don't need human labour at all.

That comment is ridiculous. You clearly have no experience with machinery of any form. First rule of the world we live in: "Everything breaks." Human labour is necessary to counter this. If you cannot tell the difference between a 3/8" open end wrench and a 7/16" open end wrench simply by looking at it, you probably have no idea what you are talking about. Human interraction with machinery and manual labour will be a necessity for decades to come even under the most optimistic technological breakthrough circumstances.

You know very well that i only mean that insofar as production is concerned. The USA has been cappable of Automating the production of consumer goods for decades,

Of courses the automated process will be maintained by humans (in the foreseeable future at least).

maintenance and machinist jobs are not unskilled labour, and thus they are needed. unskilled labour is only needed(in terms of production) because of the shackle that is the price system. The USA is quite capable of becoming self sufficient (as far as production goes) and thus should operate on abundance based economics not scarcity based.

However i do not advocate socialism as it leads to stagnation. To illustrate this i will quote myself from another thread.

"This based on abundance economics which is indeed possible in the USA.

First of all, all means of production will be automated and controlled by the government. Then all citizens will receive a basic package of goods and services which will allow them to live a high standard of living essentially equal to the American middle class. however you are not limited to this, if you want more you can have more. you simply have to make it known to the government that you want something, and then based on your abilities,past service and potential future service you will receive what you desire. In this system the genius is always richer then the idiot and the just man always richer then the in-just. This system also allows any citizen to live a life of luxury should he work for it. we eliminate the poor but keep the productive middle class and allow for the existence of the wealthy (for to be wealthy you must be productive)

Of course these privileges are only given to citizens. You must be either be born in America and go through and complete the educational system or you can immigrate to America and if you are judged to be useful and worth having by the government you can also become a citizen.

This is a USA centered system but it could also potentially be applied to Israel and China."

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Jimn_tonic"]

Pretty much this. It takes more than investers salivating for profit in order to build and maintain hospitals, schools and highways.

"We see before us a huge community of producers, the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour...I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a system which would be oriented toward social goals." -Einstien

Guybrush_3

Socialism is idiotic and dooms humanity to atrophy, idleness and rot.

And capitalism dooms us to be wages slaves of the rich capitalists. Maybe we should find a happy medium.

i support a technocratic system operating on abundance based socioeconomics.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Jimn_tonic"]

Pretty much this. It takes more than investers salivating for profit in order to build and maintain hospitals, schools and highways.

"We see before us a huge community of producers, the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour...I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a system which would be oriented toward social goals." -Einstien

RushKing

Socialism is idiotic and dooms humanity to atrophy, idleness and rot.

Technocrats and all the other statists are too conservative for believing in work. Playfulness and idleness are superior for the self. I wish to do things for the experience, rather than a carrot at the end of a stick. Compulsory labour is rot. A system designed for work is a system designed for misery. Work sucks, and is not in my rational self intrest.

Entertainment and idleness (on an individual level) is highly valued and is granted to anyone who contributes to the society. Technocracy advocates a limited socialism but maintains that citizens must work to advance the nation-state so that the nation-state (and the citizens themselves) may remain healthy and strong.

Pure socialism is vulnerable to outside forces and greatly limits what mankind can do.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Wanting/believing something to be true is not relevant to what actually is true. What you are proposing is mysticism, which is a form of subjectivism. It has no bearing on objective reality.Laihendi

whatever you make yourself believe lai...

Ayn Rand did not use a scrap of logic in "Atlus Shrugged" all that book demonstrated was that she was a bad sci fi writer.

Plato's "The Republic" consists of nothing but logical arguments in an interesting format. Plato objectively proved the perfection of the technocratic system and unlike Rand did it in an entertaining way.

Plato trancends time, Rand is beyond obsolete(not to mention wrong).

[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

illegal immigration is one of the best things to happen to America.

Jimn_tonic

Well, actually, slavery is what made Americas economy in the first place. The only thing better than cheap labour is free labour!

we don't need human labour at all.

Spoken like someone who has no idea how society and the free market function.

edgewalker16

you gonna specify who you are talking to?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

illegal immigration is one of the best things to happen to America.

00-Riddick-00

Yup cheap labour, taking jobs not needed in America. Anything illegal immigrants are doing doesn't need to be done by Americans.

if anything illegal immigration is pushing us towards the ideal government (technocracy) by showing the weaknes of the price system.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

never had this problem... i always have a week booked at a condo if i go to the beach.

lightleggy

not really...