[QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="tycoonmike"]And so your crusade against religion would continue, until all religion was destroyed. Don't you even realize that religion is the JUSTIFICATION of the true evil, being human nature? If you destroy religion, human nature would easily shift to something like government or science. Then what? Would you start a crusade against the thing you, indeed the vast majority of the athiests on this thread, champion, being science?
Religion is not the evil, human nature is that evil, and so long as you continue to target the justification for such you merely cause it to expand, like the mythical Hydra when one cuts one of its heads off.
tycoonmike
The idea that human nature is misanthropic is one that is unsupported and based on what we know about biology, false. The idea that humanity is inherently evil stems from unfounded religious dogmatism. It under this belief that these evil humans require a supreme being to keep themselves in line simply solidifies dogmatism in light of reasoning.
This is why dogmatic religions seek to continuously undermine human rights, reason and social progress. The aim here is not to destroy the religion, but to neuter it from affecting the public sphere of life to the extent that it has and is. I have no problems with people subscribing to harmless self-delusions, but when it undermines human rights, knowledge and progress there are some clear problems that need to be addressed. Such dogmatism cannot continue to exist.
You, sir, are the one who preaches a belief that is unsupported, the fallacy of human rights. Humans have no natural rights of any nature, because all rights are artificial by nature. Oh, sure, there is that line from the Declaration of Independence, the one about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but those three are easily disproven, by the following arguments:
LIFE: What right to life does a man have who is drowning in the ocean? If he cries out to help the ocean will not beckon to his call. If two people are starving in the desert and cannibalism is the only way to provide a chance of one of them to survive, who's right is unalienable, and is it right? Even the breath of life that propagates at the time of birth is purchased by the mother through unimaginable pain and effort, so how is life a natural right to be had?
LIBERTY: The men who wrote the Declaration pledged to free their lands from England pledged their lives, fortunes, and honor on it. Of all rights ever conceived, liberty is the one that is never free of charge. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots, or else it shall vanish, to quote, I believe, Thomas Paine. If we must fight for freedom, then how can it be a natural right?
PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS: This pursuit is, indeed, unalienable, but is no right. Cast me in a dungeon, crown me king of kings, I can pursue happiness so long as my brain survives, but no event shall ensure that I am successful at my endeavors. If one is not always successful at this unalienable endeavor, how can it be considered a natural right?
Evangelical religions, yes, are the enemy, but not dogmatic religions. In its own right, science can be considered dogmatic, as you cannot provide unrefutable evidence to state that the universe, the one thing upon all science rests upon, exists. If you cannot prove the central tenet of science, then you cannot prove science. Just as you cannot prove the central tenet of religion, you cannot prove religion. Religion, when practiced correctly, is the transcendence of human nature. When practiced incorrectly, it is the justification of human nature.
Human nature is, invariably, evil towards society because it requires proper grooming before society can accept such a being. To say that humans are, invariably, good, is a waste of time, breath, and brain cells, because all humans are born with one specific drive, that which to survive. If that drive cannot be controlled, then the will to survive is spent on endeavors that benefit solely the self, which is one of the evils of society, greed. That is human nature, the will to survive by any means necessary. If it were anything else, we would be living in a utopia where everyone was truly equal and everyone helped each other survive. Society today, above all else, should show you how and why humans are, by nature, evil.
You sounded smart until you said we can't prove the universe exists.
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