[QUOTE="kamuix"][QUOTE="axt113"][QUOTE="Lasden"]

But if the market becomes flooded with casuals there will be no motivation for non casual games to be made

If that occurs then the market would be flooded with casual games. People would get sick of them all before long and hardcore games would re-emerge not long after. During this time though Hardcore games will still be produced. Nintendo would not let their hardcore franchises die and they would not let down their hardcore fanbase.

axt113

Yup anyone who Thinks Ninty is going to stop making its hardcore games is crazy 

Never once did i say in any of my posts that hardcore games wouldnt be made any more, i simply stated that it would seem that hardcore games are being put on the back burner by ninty and what would happen if other developers follwed suit

Go check the first 9 months of the DS's library, chock full of casual minigames and ports and liscensed garbage, and yet now the DS has an excellent blend of games 

yes but handhelds are a totally different situation. I think handhelds are by default a casual gaming device. Why does it seem like my post is being totally misread??  YES there will be hardcore games but the ratio of hardcore to casual will be a vast difference between the two

[QUOTE="Lasden"]

But if the market becomes flooded with casuals there will be no motivation for non casual games to be made

If that occurs then the market would be flooded with casual games. People would get sick of them all before long and hardcore games would re-emerge not long after. During this time though Hardcore games will still be produced. Nintendo would not let their hardcore franchises die and they would not let down their hardcore fanbase.

axt113

Yup anyone who Thinks Ninty is going to stop making its hardcore games is crazy 

Never once did i say in any of my posts that hardcore games wouldnt be made any more, i simply stated that it would seem that hardcore games are being put on the back burner by ninty and what would happen if other developers follwed suit

people exaggerate the effect that casuals have on the games. take ps2's example. i'd guess (yes, i realise I'm pulling numbers out of nowhere) that maybe 50-60million of the people who bought a ps2 were casuals. Probably more than that. this is why games like 50cent whateveritis were made. doesn't make the rest of the games any worse though, does it?

Mr_sprinkles

ok what you're saying is partially true. now go ahead and compare the number of casual games and their sales on the ps2 to the number of hardcore games and their sales on that console...the wii on the other hand is the oppsoite it has more casual than hardcore...the ps2 had more hardcore games than casual...which is the reason why the gamecube was called "teh kiddie" by fanboys.

[QUOTE="kamuix"]

[QUOTE="Lasden"]Here is something for you to think about. As you said the Wii has been out for less than a year. When is one of the best times to release a game for a console? At launch of course. Now when did developers first gain interest in the Wii? That would be E3 06. Not a year even before the launch of the Wii. Now what takes longer to develope? An incredibly deep game with an epicstory? Or a small simple game which is easy to pick up? The hardcore games a coming give them time to be released. Companies are not going to abandon their current majority of the industry which is the hardcore gamers.Lasden

See but thats exactly my point...like i said in my first post there will be epic games on the wii but the majority of companies just seem to be releasing ports on the system. its true most developers didnt have interest in the wii b4 E3 but one of nintendo's selling points for the wii was that developers will have an easy time developing for it compared to the 360 and ps3 because its architecture is close to the gamecubes. games on the 360 or ps3 for that matter should take more time to develop but look at GRAW 2, its released less than a year from the original. my point is while there will be hardcore games...compare the ratio of hardcore games on the wii and those being realeased in the coming months to the number of casual games on it and being released in the coming months

Umm then why are you complaining. You lose nothing from there being more casual orientated games. In fact at this rate you will probably get more hardcore games too. Some of those casuals are bound to become hardcore which means more of a market for such games. Which means more of those games. There is absoloutly nothing bad happening here.

casual gamers will want more casual games...they dont want complex games like God of War...while u may say GOW is not complex they may think so. i cant figure how else to explain it to u. back in the snes days there was nothing like a hardcore game or a casual game. either u were a gamer or you were not. but games have gotten so much more complex now that "casual gamers" are casual because they dont want or have time to play hardcore games". and playing wii sports will not transition a casual gamer to suddenly playing a game like halo 3. they will want more wii sports like games.

"Re-read my statement i said wii games are simple and fun...whereas games like super mario were fun games but they werent games like wii sports which are very simpl"

Sounds like a comparison to me.

Lasden

im not doing a direct comparison...lets say the snes was $600 when it was released and today the ps3 is $600. the way ur reading it is like saying by todays standards if i go buy an snes now it will be $600. a game like final fantasy 3 was more complex for its time than a game like wii sports today

Here is something for you to think about. As you said the Wii has been out for less than a year. When is one of the best times to release a game for a console? At launch of course. Now when did developers first gain interest in the Wii? That would be E3 06. Not a year even before the launch of the Wii. Now what takes longer to develope? An incredibly deep game with an epicstory? Or a small simple game which is easy to pick up? The hardcore games a coming give them time to be released. Companies are not going to abandon their current majority of the industry which is the hardcore gamers.Lasden

See but thats exactly my point...like i said in my first post there will be epic games on the wii but the majority of companies just seem to be releasing ports on the system. its true most developers didnt have interest in the wii b4 E3 but one of nintendo's selling points for the wii was that developers will have an easy time developing for it compared to the 360 and ps3 because its architecture is close to the gamecubes. games on the 360 or ps3 for that matter should take more time to develop but look at GRAW 2, its released less than a year from the original. my point is while there will be hardcore games...compare the ratio of hardcore games on the wii and those being realeased in the coming months to the number of casual games on it and being released in the coming months

[QUOTE="kamuix"][QUOTE="Lasden"][QUOTE="kamuix"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

we were all casuals and non gamers once. it's not like use tastes stay that way forever. devs know this too. 

Lasden

true we may have been casuals at ome point but none of the games...at least in my gen which is the nes gen...were like wii sports or big brain academy and games of that nature. it was mario and zelda, sonic final fantasy...and because of that i am a hardcore gamer today. but casual gamers of this gen are going to continue to want games like wii sports simple and fun. while i would enjoy that once in a while its not enough to hold my attention. theres no drive to make me want to play wii sports for a whole night whereas a game like say God of War or Halo will keep me wanting to push throught the story.

Did you read what your wrote? Back in the NES days all games were "simple and fun". And you are saying you became a hardcore gamer because of that. Nintendo is now returning to the "simple and fun" days. The Nes is Nintendo's highest selling console and one of the main reasons is because it was "simple and fun" and they are attempting to emulate the NES's success witha similar approach. You can't claim that what they are doing is bad then say they should be doing the exact same thing you are saying is bad.

The games like Mario Zelda and Final Fantasy evolved into hardcore games through each generation and you followed them. A lot of people didnt follow them though. That is why console sales have been steadily decreasing. Nintendo may be going back to the simple days and catering for the casuals but they are certainly not going to abandon their loyal hardcore fanbase and neither will Microsoft or Sony.

Re-read my statement i said wii games are simple and fun...whereas games like super mario were fun games but they werent games like wii sports which are very simple

Games dont get much more simple than NES games im affraid. So what you are saying is blatantly wrong. You must have a very obscure view on the matter if you find games like Wii sports and say for example Elebits are simple compared to games like the original Mario.

you misunderstand what im saying...im not comparing them directly as in saying halo is better than goldeneye or like saying the ps3 is better than the snes.