If you want to try something different I'd recommend checking out some IDM. Some notable artists are Aphex Twin, Autechre, Boards of Canada and Squarepusher. Although pretty much anything released by Warp Records is great.

If you're checking out Autechre its best to start out with their early stuff (Amber, Incunabula, Anti EP, Tri Repetae) since their later stuff can be pretty extreme.

[QUOTE="rimnet00"]

You have no idea how a video card works. Just stop dude.

Bundled files, whether they are .pak, .cab, etc are not compressed textures -- they are just a compressed bundle of files.

Compressed textures are by themselves individually run through a compression algorithm that is such that it is quickly decodable by the components on the video card itself. This is why if you are editing a texture file, you need a special program to edit it, because it is not like a regular bitmap that you can just open in MSPaint. The texture program can both encode and decode these textures using whatever algorithm is in place. The same encoding / decoding is done on the video card itself.

The analogy you are using is wrong. Stop assuming, do some reading please. I don't want to sound like an ass, but you are spewing so much garbage that I can't help myself.

vitz3

OK you're completely missing it. You know those little bundled files? The ones that contain all those texture files? Those are the files I'm talking about. Decompressing those files to even get at the texture data is what is taking more and more time to decompress. The whole texture file decompression argument was started by you. I intially was talking about the compressed data as a whole.

So by your argument, the texture files aren't even in those packages, and are just spread across the disc. Uhh, that's going against your argument. Wouldn't loading one large file with many textures in it be faster than looking for a whole mess of files spread all over?

BTW if you're such an expert where is your graphics card lineup?

Textures might be bundled together, but I don't believe they compress them further. Ever tried compressing a jpeg? The difference is tiny (only a few percent) since jpegs are already compressed and the layout of the file is near ideal. It might be me, but I'd expect that any decent dev would not compress them further.

2x Blur-ray drive speed = 72Mbps source
12x DVD drive speed = 15.85Mbps source

hiryu3

Actually, 12x DVD drive = 15.85 MBps, which is the same as 126.8Mbps. This is the top speed at the edge of the disk though,the data rate will be a bit lower near the middle. Overall, the DVD's will still be faster since any decent dev will put the bigger files at the edge.

Edit: Heh, missed the second page.

"Avant-Garde"? I believe you are asking a bit too much out of the users in this forum subrosian. How would someone even come across such a concept in their daily lives? I sure didn't until I took my art history classes. Perhaps a working definition is a good start.

For a game to be considered avant-garde it would need to push the bounderies of what we consider gaming (in the same way that the Arts and Crafts movement, Futurism, De Stijl, Bauhaus, etc., pushed the bounderies on what was considered art)at that moment in time.

Going by that definition, I would seea "non-games" like Wii Fit to be the very definition of an avant-garde video game. It pushed the bounderies of what would be considered a game and introduced a new way to experience the genre. The whole Wii control scheme in itself is avant-garde because it requires a new way to interface with games.

Now, perhaps you don't want to push the defintion of avant-garde that far. The gameplay of Portal could very well be considered avant-garde since it takes a very unique approach to the FPS experience.

In any case, perhaps this will familiarize people with what it is your asking. Judging by the posts so far, they aren't sure what you mean.

slick_gio

Good post, though I don't really agree with subrosians definition on avant-garde. The games he listed all only seem to bring relatively small innovations or just do some things really good (without really doing anything new). None of it comes close to pushing the boundaries of gaming.

I think that the best way for people to get to know avant-garde is by music.

Examples of what I would consider avant-garde myself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUfDhjjgdn4

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=475072

Avant-garde seems to be something that doesn't happen a lot in gaming. Which isn't weird since most games need a big budget for development. There are exceptions though :) Games like Vib Ribbon, Katamari Damaci, Toribash and flow are some I can think off.

Show me an xbox game that beats this...

From another article on the same site:

As it is now, a clear winner of the three cannot be determined. The one thing that is for sure, however, is that the Playstation 3 is in a distant third place. It remains to be seen which console will be the most beloved in three to four years, but for now my money is on the Wii for its mass appeal.

[QUOTE="Raidea"][QUOTE="therealmcc0y"][QUOTE="Set_Free"][QUOTE="therealmcc0y"]

Mass Effect flops lmfao

I'd be much worried about that if I were you, seeing as its was sposed to be 360's best game

TriangleHard

Says 1 review

Dont u remeber all u lemmings said warhawk, hs were flops cuse they got a bad review

It was a preview. From a nobody.

HS has got quite a few bad reviews, it's not exactly the same is it?

2 from IGN.

rest? pretty steller reviews.

It also got a 6 from Edge. I haven't got the magazine myself though, so I'm not sure what the reasoning for it was.

Here's a list of all 84 games that,accordingtogamerankings, got a 10 from play (names that appear multiple times in the list are multiplats):

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
Rygar: The Legendary Adventure
Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
Ratchet & Clank
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
ESPN College Hoops 2K5
NCAA College Basketball 2K3
NCAA College Basketball 2K3
Devil May Cry 2
Okami PS2
Madden NFL 2003
Ninja Gaiden
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
Rygar: The Legendary Adventure
Ratchet & Clank
NBA Street Vol. 2
FIFA Soccer 2003
Enclave
ESPN College Hoops 2K5
Suikoden III
Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc
Shaman King: Master of Spirits
Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc
Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc
Madden NFL 2003
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
Donkey Kong Country 2
Unreal Tournament 2003
NBA Street Vol. 2
NBA Street V3
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
NBA Street V3
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
NBA 2K2
Sonic Advance 2
Command & Conquer: Generals
Maximo: Ghosts to Glory
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Winning Eleven 6 International
Grand Theft Auto III
Halo: Combat Evolved
Gears of War
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Freek****br />Wario World
Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
Sega Soccer Slam
JSRF: Jet Set Radio Future
Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2003
NBA Street V3
Super Mario Sunshine
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Heavenly Sword
Final Fantasy XII
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Wipeout Fusion PS2
Resident Evil 0
Odin Sphere
MotorStorm
Herdy Gerdy
Medal of Honor Frontline
Silent Hill 2: Restless Dreams
MVP Baseball 2003
MVP Baseball 2003
NBA Street Vol. 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance
Ikaruga
Gunvalkyrie
Primal
Blinx: The Time Sweeper
Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts
MVP Baseball 2003
FIFA 2003
Medal of Honor Frontline
Pikmin
Oddworld Stranger's Wrath
Sonic Advance 2
Command & Conquer: Generals
Maximo: Ghosts to Glory

Yeah.

This is doau from the old xbox in 720p mode notice the level of detail I highly doubt the wii can handle these kinds of graphics at 60fps with dd 5.1 sound imo (oopps the wii has pro-logic sound) :D

ChiChiMonKilla

first of all, that screenshot has a resolution of 1600x900 and seems to have some added anti aliasing to boot. It's an upscaled image taken from a devkit, that is not what gameplay looks like. Also, it doesn't seem amazingly detailed. There's only one high-rs texture in the entire screenshot (on the clothes) and the polygon countoftheenvironment isn't really anything special too. The charactersseemto have a decent amount of polys,butI'm pretty sure that they're still nowhereclosetoo the polycounts of some ships off rogue squadron 2 (some of those hit 100k+ polys and the game ran at 60fps).

I'll agree that the xbox version of doom 3 looks bad. Its a horrible version of the pc original, since even levels were cut. Though, all I can say is that I don't really care if the graphics are technically great, I just want them clean. Re4 was not a clean game. It had aliasing and muddy textures everywhere, which take you out of the experience. If nintendo makes games clean and bright, I'm fine. I do kindof believe ign, when they said its possible wii games could look worse than gamecube games. Why? I have re4 on the cube and wii, and it seems the wii version got blurred out or something. Probably because the widescreen is just zoomed in, like most hdtvs can do, instead of true widescreen. Even the opening when it says put on your wii wriststrap is much more blurry than all my other wii games during that. Nintendo messed up alittle bit with twilight princess, since it sported quite a bit of muddy textures, that even ocarina of time beat it. Though, I have a good feeling only nintendo themselves will produce great looking games for the system.

Actually, resident evil 4 on the wii runs in true widescreen, while resident evil 4 on the cube is zoomed in. That is afaik the only difference between the two games.