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Linusa

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@Thanatos2k: I'm not sure if my edits even show up, so I'm going to add my edit as a comment:

If his statement isn't proven, then it is an assumption. His assumption was based on sex. Assumptions based on sex are sexist. Therefore, if his statement isn't proven, then it is sexist.

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Linusa

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Edited By Linusa

@Thanatos2k: I challenged you when you said my example statement was sexist. You have not provided the proof. Does this mean I can say "I just didn't feel the need to do either" and get away with it now?

And no, my example statement cannot be disproven. There is no way to prove it false.

Besides, as I stated, I was disputing his statement. As you agreed, the disputer does not bear the burden of proof.

Here, I'll try to make it more clear. If what he said isn't proven, then it is an assumption. Assumptions based on sex are sexist. Therefore, if what he said isn't proven, then it is sexist.

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Linusa

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Edited By Linusa

@Thanatos2k: I'm proving something can be sexist without being proven false. I said his statement was sexist, and you said I had to prove the statement false. I am proving that I do not need to prove his statement false.

Him: Statement

Me: That is sexist

You: Prove it false

Me: I do not need to, here is an example of an obviously sexist statement that cannot be proven false

I'm sorry that this has become so complicated for you.

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Linusa

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@Thanatos2k: "I don't have to prove anything because I never disputed anything you said."

As we agreed, the disputer doesn't bear the burden of proof, the asserter does. When I said a statement was sexist, you said I was making an assertion. Now that you are saying something is sexist, you are making an assertion. Thus, as you agreed, the burden of proof lies with you.

First:

I say something is sexist -> I'm making an assertion

I'm making an assertion -> The burden of proof is on me

Now:

You say something is sexist -> You are making an assertion

You are making an assertion -> The burden of proof is on you

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Linusa

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@Thanatos2k: " I don't have to prove anything because I never disputed anything you said."

Correct, you said my statement was sexist, which you've made clear is an assertion. As we've agreed, the burden of proof lies with the asserter. Thus, my statement was not sexist, unless you can disprove it.

I'm sorry this has been so confusing for you. You see, this started when you said that, if I call a statement sexist, I must disprove it. I have now given you an example of a statement which is obviously sexist, but cannot be disproven. Thus, the conclusions are only that my example statement was not sexist, or that disproof is not required for a claim of sexism.

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Linusa

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@Thanatos2k: An assertion of sexism is a dispute of the truth of a statement. When I claimed his statement was sexist, I was implicitly disputing the truth of his statement. As you said, his statement isn't sexist if it is true. Thus, saying it is sexist is implying it is false, and is thus a dispite, rather than an assertion.

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Linusa

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@Thanatos2k: Yes, when I said "You claimed my statement was sexist", I meant the statement that you claimed was sexist. You have to prove it false if you claim it is sexist.

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Linusa

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@Thanatos2k: " The only thing you could do to the OP was challenge whether the statement was true or not"

That is what I did. A claim of a statement being sexist is implicitly a dispute of that claim. That is why, when you said my example statement was sexist, you were correct to call yourself the disputer. However, when I called a statement sexist, you said I was the asserter. When you called my example statement sexist, you said you were the disputer. This is hypocrisy. Challenging a disputer does not turn it around and make you the disputer. He made a claim, I disputed it, and you defended him. That does not make me the asserter.

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Linusa

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@Thanatos2k: Me: Is that sexist?

You: Uh, yes?

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Linusa

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@Thanatos2k: You take a long time to respond, and this is getting dull, so I'm just going to explain it to you as simply as I can.

He made an assertion. I disputed it. The burden of proof lies with the asserter, not the disputer. I tried to explain this through my example statement, but you did not pick up on what I was saying, and you instead opted for the hypocritical position of "what we say is sexist unless you disprove it, but what you say is sexist unless you prove it". When I made my example statement, you correctly disputed its truth by calling it sexist, and you correctly placed the burden of proof on me, the asserter. However, that is not the position you took with the initial assertion, that men naturally like engineering and women naturally like teaching, and therein lies the issue. It should be apparent that you incorrectly placed the burden of proof in one scenario, because in one instance you claim the person making the alleged sexist statement has the burden of proof, and in the other you claimed the person making the allegation of sexism bears the burden of proof. Clearly, it cannot be the case that both positions were correct. Thus, either you were wrong initially, and you and he bear the burden of proving his assertion true, or you were wrong with my example statement and you bear the burden of proving my example statement false.