You could use exactly the same argument for the xbox and ps2 of last gen. Do you think the ps2 hurt last gen gaming? Obviously not. As far as disc swapping - the 360 has been out for almost 2 years and the current number of multiple disc game is?sonicare

The original xbox was top technology for it's time.The xbox 360 sadly just isnt.Why on earth is their not a hard drive in every xbox 360.If their was no core xbox 360 then 90% of the games would have shorter load times.Sadly microsoft went backwards and didnt have the confidence in their brand to sell at a higher price.But teh ps2 had no hard drive?Well it didnt need it as badly as the 360 needed it cuz sofisticated machines like 360 require a hard drive alot more than not-so sofisticated machines like the wii.GTA developer has also said it so really that's one big limitation for the 360.

But then comes the biggest limitation which is the 9GB only DVD9.Disk swapping is NOT EVEN an option for genres like racing,fighting and sandbox games.No matter what genre there are ALWAYS SOME gameplay limitations in disc swapping.

Ok disc swapping is not really a huge problem in linear action games or shooters.We have seen some of the best games in these categories on multiple discs.However RPG's will face some limitations due to disc swapping.I remember a place in FFX where the whole game world is open to you but with multiple discs i dont think that they would have included it.Forza motorsport would have been so much better with HD-DVD.Sorry but dont try to argue this.I mean the sounds effects are just TERRIBLE for a next gen game.Then their is no soundtrack because they ran out of space or what.And then the graphics could have been downgraded because of less space.

Xbox 360 is limiting GTA4 and Burnout 5.Well actually the gta developer himself said that 360's limited media format brings limitations to the table and well you have already known that gta4 will actually be smaller than san andreas because of 360.That just sucks.And as i said a game like burnout simply cannot use multiple discs.It's just sad that 360's powerful processor and graphics card and memory just cry for HD-DVD.

Xbox 360 is ruining this gen more than the wii.I dont see the wii getting many multiplatform games.It gets it's own games and somebody playing on a PC or ps3 will not in any way be affected by the inferior power of the wii.However somebody playing gta4 on a ps3 or PC will be directly afftected by the limitations of the xbox 360.

Some of the big games last year on the ps2 have actually been on multiple discs like gow2 and mgs3:subsistence.But as i said it is primarily these kind of games that do not get affected by disc swapping.But really a format which was getting maxed out on a damn ps2 is being used in the 1080p capable xbox 360.Really that's just not a hardcore machine for me and this is the reason why i got a ps3 over xbox 360.

I have eight Wii games.SmashBrosLegend

I have found that all three consoles are lacking games withepic and compeling storiesbehind them. I really dont mind mindless shooters but it gets to a point were your head starts to hurt from how repetitive those games can get.

I dont know about you guys but a game needs to give me a reason to beat it and if it doesnt *cough*COD3*cough* then theres so much joyI can get from it before walking away.

Mass Effect and Heavenly Sword are needed....BAD!

But where does this leave the Wii and Nintendo? Is Metroid suppose to have an epic story behind it and besides that what do they have planned in the future?

-Sir-Poof-

I advise you to get a ps3 and i can assure you that you wont be dissapointed in this category.

lol, nintendo the only ones who realise this is a business .. it's about making money!

$2 billion is too much to lose, even for M$ .. if they don't make money this gen, do you think they'll make a 3rd console next gen?

akif22

[QUOTE="musacircuit"][QUOTE="blackace"][QUOTE="musacircuit"]

So if 1 billion goes to repairs their is still a billion more.I guess MS should just quit this industry for good and i bet it'll happen sooner rather than later if this continues.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6175367.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;1

blackace

Sony lost 1 billion in the 1st quarter and will lose 2 billion in the 2nd quarter, so they should quit the industry as well, right? :roll: Please open you mouth a little wider when you speak.

You do know that M$ has like 10 times the amount of fund in their bank then Sony right. They can afford to lose money for 6 years, as they are making more profitwith their software division the Sony is with their electronics. Like I said. Open your mouth a little wider when you speak. M$ could buy Sony and clear their debt if they wanted to. M$ has already cleared up a lot of the debt they've had from the XBox. Why do you think their gaming division will be profitable in the 1st quarter of 2008? :roll: Sony's PS3 is actually hurting their electronics division more then the XBox is hurting M$ Software division.

Anyways you are so ignorant but i will still tell you that the ps3 is helping with blue ray sales and possibly bravia sales and these things dont show up in financial atatements.So no the ps3 is actually benefiting the electronics division of sony.

[QUOTE="musacircuit"][QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Maybe the TC and a bunch of you otherpeople should actually read the article and apply some basic reasoning skills.

How much did they lose in the 4th Quarter which just ended?

The answer is $1.20B

How much of that was a ONE-TIME warranty provision?

The answer is $1.06B

Meaning, how much was the routine operational loss?

The answer is $0.14B or $140 Million.

Which means that the division is on the verge of profitability. Indeed it will turn a profit in Q1 of this fiscal year. And a significant profit in Q2 which includes the run-up to Christmas.

You see my 14 year old friends, ONE-TIME provisions do not affect future operating results. There will be a profit turned in fiscal year 2008 which started July 1st and that is precisely why MS took the big bath late in the 4th Quarter of last year, which ended June 30th.

READING COMPREHENSION FTW

blackace

You have a link?

THAT PS3 IS TEH OWNAG3NESS. no lol JK, that aint me.

ok for real, when is everyone gonna understand that you cant say one console is better than the other? sure you can say that one console sold more than another but who cares? are you sony? or microsoft or nintendo? the answer is no (unless u work there). A console can be better for an individual though, as in YOU might think the ps3 is the ownage but the 360 owner in front of you may not agree because HE is not interested in the PS3's line up,as you a are not interested in the 360's. People buy a certain console because THEYlike the games and there is no use in trying to convince the person in front of you that his games (or his taste in that matter) sucks and that he should conform to yours. That is literally all I see you guys do in these forums, WHO THE BLEEP CARES IF THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU LIKES THE GAME. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT YOU LIKE IT, THAT YOU ENJOY IT AND IT BRINGS YOU HAPINESS. Why do you care how it sold?or howhigh its rated? You are all just trying to justify your expensive investments and trying to convince yourselves that you made the right choice imo. Are you the one whomade the game? do you benefit or lose ifthe game flops or succeeds?Is it YOUR work of art?NO!!! YOU GUYS HAVE ARGUEMENTS IN HERE THAT GAME MAKERS AND DESIGHNERS SHOULD BE HAVING.

Back to the whole sales thing, when you guys say a game is better than others and try to force your opinion on everyone, what do you gain out of it?bungie, epic, crytek, nintendo, sega, sony, Ms,all gain money from your "system wars" but all you get is more enemies online. System wars basically means the sneakiest way of advertising consoles (although im sure gspot didnt make it with that intention) whether you know it or not, for every person converted to a differnt console on here, one of the companies has gotten richer.

Deamon321

I just dont understand why some people dont understand what the TC is saying because it's just logic and not rocket science.I also try to tell what the TC is saying but it's a little hard to explain and also a little hard for some to understand.Anyways good post.

[QUOTE="musacircuit"][QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Maybe the TC and a bunch of you otherpeople should actually read the article and apply some basic reasoning skills.

How much did they lose in the 4th Quarter which just ended?

The answer is $1.20B

How much of that was a ONE-TIME warranty provision?

The answer is $1.06B

Meaning, how much was the routine operational loss?

The answer is $0.14B or $140 Million.

Which means that the division is on the verge of profitability. Indeed it will turn a profit in Q1 of this fiscal year. And a significant profit in Q2 which includes the run-up to Christmas.

You see my 14 year old friends, ONE-TIME provisions do not affect future operating results. There will be a profit turned in fiscal year 2008 which started July 1st and that is precisely why MS took the big bath late in the 4th Quarter of last year, which ended June 30th.

READING COMPREHENSION FTW

SUD123456

You do realize that you don't know how companies operate and what is profit, right? The money lost in a previous accounting period is not relevant to this accounting period. The money lost so far on the Xbox360 is effectively a sunk cost. Call it a devopment cost...or an investment cost if you will. Those losses are already compounded fully into MS share price and have no bearing on future profit. MS will indeed turn a profit this Quarter even if you cannot understand how that is possible.

However, I am kind...so I will explain it to you.

The money spent is a sunk cost. Meaning it is already spent and you cannot turn back time and change your decisions. Because of this, companies, and investors, make decisions that are current and forward looking.

If you have lost say $2 Billion and decide to fold up shop and quit, then you have lost $2 Billion. You might do this if there is no hope of the next sales being profitable either...eg. each unit you expect to sell in the future will also be at a loss.

If you have lost say $2 Billion and you are now profitable for each unit you are CURRENTLY selling, then you are making a profit on those units in that time period.

In either case, the amount of money you have already lost, $2 Billion, is irrelevant. The decision to proceed is based upon whether the current and future units are profitable or not.

This is why your original post is bunk and completely wrong. The decision to keep making a product is based upon the current and future profitability....not what you have sunk into in the past. It would be like your own personal gold mine....where you dig and dig just to get down to the right level and then you quit....2 feet before finding gold.

The point of all this being that from an investment point of view the $2B in the past is irrelevant to the shareholders decision of what to do now.

/thread

Ur logic is so flawed that it isnt even funny.So if 360 goes on to mahe 2 billion profits this gen do u seriously think that MS would be happy with that.NO cuz it also lost 3 billion which means a net loss of 1 billion.

I just need u to teach one thing.Unless MS recovers the losses made by the xbox,the share prices would have been better off if MS had never entered the gaming industry.Seriously am i debating with someone who thinks that investment is a cost that doesnt need to be recovered and companies would just be happy to cover variable costs.:roll:

[QUOTE="musacircuit"]

So if 1 billion goes to repairs their is still a billion more.I guess MS should just quit this industry for good and i bet it'll happen sooner rather than later if this continues.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6175367.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop;title;1

blackace

Sony lost 1 billion in the 1st quarter and will lose 2 billion in the 2nd quarter, so they should quit the industry as well, right? :roll: Please open you mouth a little wider when you speak.