I am trying to show that sales of hardware and software arent defined by by quality. So the direct and proportional relation of both are not true and is a mistake so big, that I even question the people real motives for it.

I used the fact that pirate avaibility, trend of someone friend, marketing, accessibility to show cases of where this relation can be hugely compromised.

Some fanboys arguments are not even getting near rebutting my idea.

....

Now i should adress the trivial argument of some that because sales is mesurement of popular, the indirect relation of popularity and quality is enough to warranty as valid argument:

ME) Most because of the acessebility factor and some other arguments I already mentioned, this becomes a false statement entirely as becomes impossible to measure how much deep is the indirect relation for each specific case (gameor hardware) since depens is so many factor and context.

......

Now is adress the people that say tha quality is a subjective matter and so there is not perfect way to measure:

ME) agreed. Having a perfect mesurement when we are talking of people opinion, art and einterteament is impossible. But all this forum revolves around this debate and trying to come with more better models to represent better the of quality discrepancy in our human opinion of games.

Even not being possible to come with a perfect model, is possible to try create a model that tries to have the better margin of error and that better represent the reality. The "reviewing scores and metacritic" models whiled flawed is miles better than the "sales porportionality" models.

.....

Conclusion:

We could try to come with others more reliable models, perhaps using other factors other than gaming sites reviews to create this models.

Feel free to to tell us which models would you think would be better, perhaps a mix of other existing models could be true.

We could weight avaible consumer market share of said console to use sales as mesuremnt. Using the ratio to wight and dimishes the error.

And maybe (sales of software of a genre)/(potential market interested is such genre) ratio could also be aplied to a model, since would try to adress the undergrund, niches genres discrepancy sales.

I dont believe sales should be factored at all but at least this other models try to reduce the errors, something some fanboys didnt even try.

Since almost everyone here agree that sales has nothing to do with quality, then why 360 and wii fans rely so much on it.

Is it because they know ps3 has a better hadrware, reliability, pirate proof and exclusives so they use the argument of sales even if is not aplied?

And since some think hardware sales matters because drawns 3rd party... lets discuss the pirate market share there is on the 360/wii:

If you take in to acccount wii is not 3rd party sales friend, the games costs 20-40$ 3 months after, and a huge share of the 50million are pirated that are never goinig to buy a game, this makes the wii worse than 360/ps3 for3rd party. Reasoning no 3rd party publishers NEVER breaks the 10milllion in developing a game for the wii.

And since ps3/360 has same sales figures in most multiplatform launched in 2008-2009 games even with the 360 having a 1 years ahead. So in reality while 360 has a bigger market share, in business perpective the 3rd have same interest for both consoles.

And sales of software for ps3 since 2008 are incrising while 360 remained more stable, mostly due new hardware sales going for pirates or are only people getting their second, third 360 for comfort or for RROD. (warranty donesnt covers lots of 360, like the imported/exported to some countries, and hacked consoles)

Will not even touch in the fact that ps3 is the one that i believe will most likely have bigger lifespan since this might issue some debates which are not the focus of this trhead.

In a third party perspective the ps3 now stands as the best console to invest. And Sony is the one that is most spending cash on 1st party games (even if you think they are bad they are the most expensive). So even if you say hardware sales for wii/360 this gen will make more future games and bigger investment in other games. SONY and PS3 are the ones with most 3rd and 1st party investiment, growing as of now.

Uncharted 2: The 3 player Co-op just reinvigorated my interest in this sequel

Half-Life Episode 3

Assassin creed 2

Diablo III

God of War 3

Alan wake (PC)

Team Trico

Heavy rain

Metal Gear Solid 5

EyE pet: I am curious

SE mmorpg exclusive for ps3

blade & soul

Tony hawk RIDE

motion sensing games from PS3/360 if they exist, as the hardware

PSP parasite eve, kimdom hearts, motorstomr, lbp

PSP redesign

{BEST E3 EVER}

Why sales become important for defining quality of a game?

We use comparison of hardware sales to call which console is BETTER now?

I would like to understand the reasoning for some of you to use sales as quality measurement, intead of just fun, rating, gameplay, value, reliability and so on.

Most xbox 360 love to bash the superior ps3 exclusives games saying they sold less than Y game.

Wii fans this generation can only mention sales to support their claim that wii is best console.

And if there is a logic reasoning to explain why when discussing quality to mention sales..... (which i doubt)

...... would this reasoning still be truth when you think of pirated games and modded hardware?

Because a big share from wii/360 have hacked consoles to play "stolen" games. And these hacked hardware still count in the 50/30 million wii/360 sales. When the pirate bought the xbox360/wii planning to hack, he couldnt even consider the ps3 as the ps3 has no pirated games. So clearly his choice for not chosing the ps3 wasn't about quality, was because he was not truly a game consumer, and was unable to steal with a ps3.

Even with wii and 360 at least selling the hardware for the pirates, everyone know that the profit 1st party make are from games and not the console. So even if you were discussing businness wouldnt make sense, let alone QUALITY.

I could see in MMOPRG the sales/player be a factor in overall fun of the game, since mmorpg is around community. But other games, even online shooter, racers seem unlogical to factor sales in quality, but somehow, some kids in this forum still do.

I can recall most 360 owners saying they bought a 360 because their friends didn't have a ps3s. While this reasoning for buying makes sense, this reasoning when talking about quality becomes meaningless since what YOUR friends have is not a reedeeming for quality mesurement and which console is THE BEST.

Unless I mistake system wars for a GAMERS forum when in fact is dedicated for Investor, business and market trends discussion?

Please discuss....

If this is indeed a forum for investor discussion and not Gamer, please point me to the gamers section.

He forgot flower 8.0AAE, comet crash 9.0 AAAE and trash panic 7.5AE.

All PSN game that has bigger budget, quality than the retail wii his listed in my opinion.

Hated this trhead.

Kind funny OP got banned.

[QUOTE="ace52387"]

at this point, it's gotta look better than blade and soul to impress me. After watching that trailer, MMO's just seem bland and ugly.

maldavian2008

Pfft, dont like MMO's. On the other hand, if patches and fixes come out for Infamous, it deserves a 9 at least.tirralirra

Since 2007 the mmorpg team at square enix said they would be doing a next gen mmorpg for ps3. Console exclusivity was only rumored then(unbased rumor). Vista hinted.

This game in development was kept under radar for all this years and was said we would only know more after SE have been completely done with FFXI.

Only info about said MMOrpg was:

VERY VERY diferent from FFXI, not ff franchise

Would NOT be your typical mmorpg, they were trying other things

PS3 was garanteed due to context of interview. Exclusivity was unknow and not discussed.

If this OP update is indeed true we get new info:

Game is called Rapture

Is "console exclusive" (360 fans are familiar with this kind of exclusive) or true exclusive(sony fans are familiar with true exclusives, 1 platfrom only)

Things we are 100% sure:

there is next gen mmorpg from SE being developed for ps3 that is not from FF franchise.

source: 2007 news are so old i wont bother finding...

My opinion:

Maybe this bits about FFxi for ps3, is that when ps3 gets their ffxi means that they were completely done with FFxi, wich comes times just right since they said we would know more when they had stoped developing more for ffxi.

If really is a exclusive , might explain why 1st party SONY didnt do a fantasy mmorpg and choose to do free-realms/agency/DC universe. They already knew ps3 would eventually get from SE.

Even if is exclusive for ps3, is only console exclusivity. Vista was mentioned in 2007 with the game.

Since developing from vista to 360 is not that difficult I find hard will be exclusivity, but timed is possible. (edit:just read on article about the microsoft live restrictions/control might be why)

I need games to recommend to a 6-7 year old boy, but needs to be a non-violents game because his mom banned violent games at his home. (he was playint to much call of duty and talking about killing nazis)

I came up with:

Kameo: Elements of Power

Braid

Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise

Would like some help with few other games.

Oh, and is fable 2 really mature? I was going to recommend until i saw the M rating...