I have said from the very beginning that, in terms of still shots, Killzone 2's final graphics would get pretty close to the E3 '05. In motion, they won't come anywhere near to what we saw in '05. It wasn't the graphics that were impossible in the CG trailer, it was the the much too sophisticated AI, and the sheer amount of scripting. There was just too much going on that was relevant to what the character was doing. With that much scripting the battles would have to play out exactly the same way over and over again.

And looking at the gameplay videos of Killzone 2, I was absolutely right.

As far as I am concerned, you are the guys who do not "get" it.

It is not right to keep on punishing people after they have been punished to the full extent of the law. That is what I have been saying from the very beginning. You guys act like I don't think Vick should be punished, like I don't think he is a scumbag. He is a scumbag, and he deserves to go to jail for a long time, but once he has done so, the punishment should stop.

You guys are the ones who came up with a bunch of bs excuses of Vick not being a good role model for the kids. In my opinion you guys are using Michael Vick as a scapegoat for the wretched state of professional sports these days. You seem to be trying to hold onto this warped perspective of professional atheletes as being saintly / heroic figures, when their world is far from saintly.

Of course I do, look at Goodell, he is trying to clean up the NFL. Like I said, Vick is the problem, he is the one that created his own actions, not the NFL. They are not babysitters. I think you are missing the point, this is about Vick and what he did, notthe NFL.

klslick

All right, thanks for proving my point then. What Vick did is a criminal matter, and has nothing to do with the NFL. As such, it should have no bearing on his future NFL career.

Blinders??? What? The NFL did not make him do this, the kind of person he is made him do this. Look, I don't care if he plays again or not, that is up to Goodell to decide. When you step into a role as he did, you must take the responsibilities that come with it. I think you need to open your own eyes. Do you have any kids, try explaining to them why one of the most popular players in the NFL was torturing our family pet( or family member). This comes down to the kind of person he is and if your okay with that good luck to you. klslick

Do you honestly think the NFL cares about what kind of role model Michael Vick is? They don't. They only care about how much money he might cause them to lose or gain.

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]

[QUOTE="klslick"]However wrong it may be, pro athletes are role models for kids. How many posters of doctors or cops do you see on teenagers wallls? I'm not saying its right, thats just how it is.Big_Papi7

And that means that we should expect them to act like role models? Because some company is trying to make money off of selling posters, or putting them in commercials?

If Michael Vick is going to be banned from football, it will not be because of what he did to the dogs. It will be because he lied to the NFL, and risked millions of their precious dollars and a tarnished reputation for the NFL.

Yes we expect them to act like role models! If they are role models they should act like them. Thats the least they can do if with the money they make. Whether you like it or not, they are role models. People look up to athletes, and I know that there were people who liked Michael before this.

I believe I have all ready explained how horrifyingly putrid I believe that to be. I don't think Michael Vick ever asked to be a role model. If kids look up to him, is that Michael Vick's problem? No, that is society's problem. He is becoming the scapegoat of a warped and hypocritical system.

You seem to be happy to ignore the problem, and throw all the blame onto Michael Vick. In my opinion, Michael Vick is the least of the problem. Very few athletes are good role models. If Michael Vick ends up being banned from the NFL it will be because the NFL views him as a threat to their money, not because he is a bad role model.

You guys really need to take the blinders off of your eyes. The NFL couldn't give a $%&# if Michael Vick is a good role model or not. If Vick were guaranteed to still fill the stands and bring lots of money to the NFL, you can be for damned sure that they would let him play again. If Vick is forbidden to play again in the NFL it will be because the NFL fears being associated with Michael Vick. It really is all about money to these people. They don't give a $#&% about the children.

However wrong it may be, pro athletes are role models for kids. How many posters of doctors or cops do you see on teenagers wallls? I'm not saying its right, thats just how it is.klslick

And that means that we should expect them to act like role models? Because some company is trying to make money off of selling posters, or putting them in commercials?

If Michael Vick is going to be banned from football, it will not be because of what he did to the dogs. It will be because he lied to the NFL, and risked millions of their precious dollars and a tarnished reputation for the NFL.

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"][QUOTE="Big_Papi7"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"][QUOTE="Big_Papi7"]

It doesnt matter if it doesn't have anything to dowith football! Thats the way life is! If kids get into a fight at school, they get kicked off their team. You have to behave....just because it doesnt have anything to do with football doesn't mean he shouldn't be banned! So what if Vick did this again? And again? And he kept being let out of jail? Just because he's being let out of jail he should keep getting chances to play? Thats basically what you're saying when you say "Killing dogs has nothing to do with football". Obviously you people have no idea what you're talking about....

Big_Papi7

There is a reason that we have laws, so that the criminal justice system punishes people for their crimes, not the public. The law is the only way that people should be punished for a crime. To do otherwise would be going against everything that America stands for.

Fighting at school? The school is an institution. It has rules governing what kids can and cannot do at school. Kids are not allowed to fight at school. That is a school rule. The school also controls who is allowed to play on the school teams, and they are within their rights to punish kids by not letting them play on the team if they break other school rules. If you fail to see the difference between that and what Michael Vick did, i cannot help you. If Michael Vick had broken an NFL rule, by betting on his own games, or slugging a ref, there would be connection, but here, there is no connection.

I don't care how much of a goddamned scumbag Michael Vick is. Once he serves out the punishment that the American Criminal Justice System has given him, he needs to be given a second chance to play football. Nobody can continue punish you once the law has said that you are rehabilitated. It is illegal to discriminate against job applicants that have prior criminal records. It is illegal.

No he doesn't. Its as simple as that. Once you do something that bad, you lose the privilege of playing football. If you can't seem to understand that, I can't help you. But go ahead and side with a guy who beat, electrocuted, and drowned dogs. I don't care what you say. If you say he deserves to go back into football you're siding with him, whether you think you are or not.

You are saying that if you are a bad person, you should be banned from football.

Yes thats what I'm saying. If you are representing kids and America, what kind of representation is it to have a prisoner out on the field????

Right, because Michael Vick is the first case in the history of the world of an athlete committing a crime :roll:

The hypocrisy rampant in American news these days appalls me to my very core. It is disgusting to me. What you are saying digusts me even more than anything Michael Vick has done. Why should athletes be role models for America's children? Because they have tons of natural ability, and make millions upon millions of dollars? In my opinion, what you are saying represents everything that is wrong with American society these days.

Athletes should not be depended on as role models for America's children. This dependency on the rich and gifted and beautiful as role models for our children represents the disgusting way in which our society trains our children to think that wealth is the only path to happiness. It trains our children to feel like less than human when they learn that are less athletic or less smart or less beautiful than someone else. It is disgusting.

And yet you represent Michael Vick as the problem in our society. One monster does not outweigh the problems inherent with our system of celebrity worship. We place unnatural expectations on people to be more than they are, whether that be in terms of morals, or the other things I talked about above. People with money are people too, some are going to be better than others.

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"][QUOTE="Big_Papi7"]

It doesnt matter if it doesn't have anything to dowith football! Thats the way life is! If kids get into a fight at school, they get kicked off their team. You have to behave....just because it doesnt have anything to do with football doesn't mean he shouldn't be banned! So what if Vick did this again? And again? And he kept being let out of jail? Just because he's being let out of jail he should keep getting chances to play? Thats basically what you're saying when you say "Killing dogs has nothing to do with football". Obviously you people have no idea what you're talking about....

Big_Papi7

There is a reason that we have laws, so that the criminal justice system punishes people for their crimes, not the public. The law is the only way that people should be punished for a crime. To do otherwise would be going against everything that America stands for.

Fighting at school? The school is an institution. It has rules governing what kids can and cannot do at school. Kids are not allowed to fight at school. That is a school rule. The school also controls who is allowed to play on the school teams, and they are within their rights to punish kids by not letting them play on the team if they break other school rules. If you fail to see the difference between that and what Michael Vick did, i cannot help you. If Michael Vick had broken an NFL rule, by betting on his own games, or slugging a ref, there would be connection, but here, there is no connection.

I don't care how much of a goddamned scumbag Michael Vick is. Once he serves out the punishment that the American Criminal Justice System has given him, he needs to be given a second chance to play football. Nobody can continue punish you once the law has said that you are rehabilitated. It is illegal to discriminate against job applicants that have prior criminal records. It is illegal.

No he doesn't. Its as simple as that. Once you do something that bad, you lose the privilege of playing football. If you can't seem to understand that, I can't help you. But go ahead and side with a guy who beat, electrocuted, and drowned dogs. I don't care what you say. If you say he deserves to go back into football you're siding with him, whether you think you are or not.

What is there to understand about what you are saying? You are saying that if you are a bad person, you should be banned from football. It is probably within the NFL's rights to say Vick cannot play, but I do not think that it is right to keep on punishing somebody after the law has all ready had its say.

My opinion has nothing to do with Michael Vick. It is not right to keep punishing somebody after they have all ready served their time.

My God! You guys have seriously got to stop. This is the worst damage control in the history of System Wars.

I suppose athletes that switch teams purposely lose to their old teams? No, they try to beat the living $#%@ out of them.