[QUOTE="MASTERBLADEX"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="MASTERBLADEX"]yeah,but the emotion concept no longers matter now since cloud has conquered it in advent children.so i don't see why you keep on saying cloud is emotionally weak.back then,yes,but as of now no it is fully dealt with.TheForgotten0ne

Hmm, you didn't get the movie. He died, why? Emotinal causes, he wouldn't be stabbed if it wasn't for that. Cloud will always be an emotional wreck, thats who he is! His emotions get's in the way, they did and will always do !

Cloud didn't die dude. Are you even being serious?

[QUOTE="swyg"][QUOTE="Darmi"]

Let's assume they are physically equal for a second. Then look at some facts from their stories;

Auron;
He kept himself "alive" through sheer force of will

Cloud;
His mind broke when he learned he wasn't Zack

So Auron is mentally stronger. He can just keep his cool and wait for Cloud to get emotional or make a mistake and then he's won.

Darmi

Except Cloud has never been emotional in battle. Outside of battle yes, but not in. Sephiroth constantly taunted Cloud in AC, while Cloud may have been getting annoyed, he kept his cool and finished off Sephiroth with omnislash version 5. In FFX right before Auron and the other party members fought Yunalesca in Zanarkand, he swatted at the pyrefly images of his memories. He was obviously upset over the past when Braska gave his life for the Final Aeon.

When AVALANCHE reaches the Northern Crater, Sephiroth tells Cloud that he was not in Nibelheim, showing him images of a 1st cl@ss SOLDIER with dark hair who occupies Cloud's place in his memories. With Tifa unable to refute Sephiroth's claims, Cloud breaks down and allows him to cast Meteor, resulting in the WEAPONs' awakening. During the earthquake that follows, Cloud is separated from his companions and falls into the Lifestream.Wikipedia

Clearly in a fight there. At least, about to start one.

And Auron was in control there. He might have been frustrated but he dealt with it before it made any difference.

Keyword: "about"

But regardless, there wasn't a fight anyway. After Cloud gave Sephiroth the Materia, Cloud got mako poisoned and washed up near that town (forgot the name). I think it was Mibeel, or something that sounds similar.

Let's assume they are physically equal for a second. Then look at some facts from their stories;

Auron;
He kept himself "alive" through sheer force of will

Cloud;
His mind broke when he learned he wasn't Zack

So Auron is mentally stronger. He can just keep his cool and wait for Cloud to get emotional or make a mistake and then he's won.

Darmi

Except Cloud has never been emotional in battle. Outside of battle yes, but not in. Sephiroth constantly taunted Cloud in AC, while Cloud may have been getting annoyed, he kept his cool and finished off Sephiroth with omnislash version 5. In FFX right before Auron and the other party members fought Yunalesca in Zanarkand, he swatted at the pyrefly images of his memories. He was obviously upset over the past when Braska gave his life for the Final Aeon.

1. Ok, when does Cloud summon in the actual story?

2. If you go entirely by the story, that would mean that there would never be any Limit's/ Overdrive's by either char., so Omnislash would be gone, Cloud's only advantage.

3. Peoples opinion's are clouding their facts. The size of the Buster Sword has nothing to do with Cloud's ability as a fighter. That just proves he's strong enough to use it. That has no correlation to Auron whatsoever. Even if Auron's sword were smaller than Cloud's, Auron would still win. He's just a better fighter. That's like saying that someone using a large, cumbersome weapon would always beat someone with a small, quicker one, which is almost never true. You can swing a large weapon around all day and miss every time.

4. Cloud doesn't even once use Materia in the story. Please tell me when he does.

5. Regardless of the damage limit, under the assumption that both chars. have the same damage limit, how can you still think that Cloud could win so easily? Your arguments are grossly structured to favor Cloud. You say that Cloud can use Materia, but that Auron has no skills, you say that Cloud could Summon, yet Cloud never Summons in the story-line, so therefor you must be going by gameplay, in which case Auron would destroy Cloud.

6. Haste affects both chars. the same, and while in it, both move at the same speed, so that means that one isn't drastically faster than the other. Of course, Cloud's more agile, but he should be since he's most likely less than 1/3 of Auron's age.

7. You want story-line, here it comes. Auron defeats Sinspawns, Sin himself... TWICE, overthrows the corrupt religion of Spira, escapes every trap he gets caught in, has the respect of basically the entire world, discovers the method to prevent Sin from returning, and both keeps his promises to Braska and Jecht while making everyone he travels with a better person. Cloud beats Seph. Seph. did everything of importance in FFVII until the very end. You want a real debate? We should be debating Auron vs. Seph.

IceDefenseGod

This is some of the most ignorant BS I've ever seen. CLOUD USES OMNISLASH IN AC! Cloud also uses Omnislash Story-wise at the very end of FF7 against Sephiroth DUH!. Considering the player wins that battle no matter what, it's not gameplay and it has already been proven canon that Cloud undisputably can use Omnislash. Most of the other points you made in the rest of your rant don't even correspond to what I've been arguing dude, STAY ON TRACK.

Auron doesn't defeat Sin dude, not even once. He was in the party of Lord Braska and Jecht. Braska sacrificed himself for the Final Aeon, Jetch turns into the next Sin Auron does NOTHING to defeat Sin. The party defeats Sin, not just Auron by himself the next time Sin is born.

No. IT is painfully obvious. Clouds is wider. Aurons is longerfs_metal

Clouds left arm covers up some of the buster sword while Aurons left arm isn't in the way making it seem like Aurons is longer at first glance. Take a look at the length of the tip of Clouds sword. Auron and Clouds sword are pretty much the same length. If Aurons sword is longer, it's not by much. Width-wise however, Clouds sword is over 2 times as wide.

[QUOTE="swyg"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="swyg"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="swyg"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="eztarg8"]Are you smoking crack or something. Cloud is better than Auron in every aspect but his slow cumbersome strength and old crusty wiseness.fs_metal

Explain with details then.

You haven't explained anything, stop giving statements and give details. "Auron is better than Cloud because he has better technique" HOW? WHAT TECHNIQUE? EXPLAIN. All I'm hearing is that you like Auron. I've already given an essays worth of reasons why Auron can't beat Cloud and how Cloud would mop the floor with Auron. Defend your reasons or concede from this argument.

I play FFX A LOT considering it is one of my favorite games of all time, and all I see Auron do when he is about to attack is run up to the enemy carrying the sword WITH his shoulders to lift it and then strike. You can argue that he's old or to make it easier to carry the sword for the longer part of the journey, but Cloud holds the Buster sword like a baseball bat the entire time he is in a battle, striking or otherwise. He doesn't need the aid of his shoulders to carry the massive buster sword. Of course this is all going back to gameplay which I wish you stay away from considering gameplay doesn't tell us ANYTHING on their true strengths.

You just defeated your own point man. If Auron swings the sword from his shoulders that proves that he DOES need to carry it on his shoulders, the fact that it is able to come down on an enemy doesn't mean the opposite. Right now, I believe you're arguing just to argue so whatever lets continue. Cloud carries his sword on his back when not using it, and when he is he carries it arms length out in front of him with his arms holding up the swords entire weight with nothing to fall back on for rest.

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

I'm pretty sure Auron didn't get stronger when he died...

IceDefenseGod

I'm sorry, but that's the most ignorant statement I've ever heard in my entire life. Auron is nothing other than a warrior in his actual "life", but once he's the real Auron, he's a God.

You don't know anything about swinging swords or the physics of such a thing. I can tell

Just LOOKING at that, it is obvious that Aurons sword is longer

fs_metal

He's incredibly right! Look how obvious that is!

They're about the same length, althought it is hard to tell because they are not both lined up. But even you have to admit that Clouds Sword is MUCH wider.

[QUOTE="swyg"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="swyg"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="eztarg8"]Are you smoking crack or something. Cloud is better than Auron in every aspect but his slow cumbersome strength and old crusty wiseness.fs_metal

Explain with details then.

You haven't explained anything, stop giving statements and give details. "Auron is better than Cloud because he has better technique" HOW? WHAT TECHNIQUE? EXPLAIN. All I'm hearing is that you like Auron. I've already given an essays worth of reasons why Auron can't beat Cloud and how Cloud would mop the floor with Auron. Defend your reasons or concede from this argument.

I play FFX A LOT considering it is one of my favorite games of all time, and all I see Auron do when he is about to attack is run up to the enemy carrying the sword WITH his shoulders to lift it and then strike. You can argue that he's old or to make it easier to carry the sword for the longer part of the journey, but Cloud holds the Buster sword like a baseball bat the entire time he is in a battle, striking or otherwise. He doesn't need the aid of his shoulders to carry the massive buster sword. Of course this is all going back to gameplay which I wish you stay away from considering gameplay doesn't tell us ANYTHING on their true strengths.

[QUOTE="swyg"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="swyg"][QUOTE="fs_metal"]

Cloud has to have the materia with him, so it doesn;t necessarily mean that he wil lbe able to cast it. Auron can learn magic. He does not need the aid of a rock. If yo uare going to argue that again,. Auron still wins.

No matter how you look at it, Auron is the clear victor here. How many times must I say this

fs_metal

As shown in AC you can put the materia inside of your body, he doesn't need to carry it so Cloud would have it with him at all times. Also you haven't really shown anything on how exactly Auron would win. You say Auron has this and he is the clear victor. HOW though? You may truly believe that Auron is more powerful, but that doesn't help you, you're still in a debate and need to show details to defend your point, or maybe you can't. If you can't explain how Auron is more powerful than Cloud, then why defend him? Give situations, anything as long as it is canon and is in the storyline.

Auron can learn magic IN THE GAMEPLAY, but he can't use it in the storyline because he is a warrior and never uses it in the storyline. Cloud CAN because it is indicated that he HAS materia in AC. Of course Cloud never uses it, so it's impossible to determine how exactly it would work. Regardless, Cloud can use magic and Auron can't. That brings us all the way back to making it just a sword fight between Cloud and Auron since it is the only way to determine this in canon.

*sigh*

If you're going back to gameplay you're forgetting that Cloud has Master Materia which allows him to use ALL Magic/Summons and special abilities.

PS. Auron can't summon. Cloud can.

IF? This isn't even a question of if, he DOES have summon materia because it is indicated in AC that HIS materia was stolen and then recovered. From the looks of one part of your argument it's almost as if you're relying on an abyssmal chance of Cloud forgetting his materia to bring to the fight. LOL!

I never said Spira had anything to do with battle.

Summons mean NOTHING.

I'm done with intelligent conversation. If you can argue this to someone as big a fan boy as myself, YOU are the true fan boy. If you can flat-out say that Cloud would win, you're allowing your attachment to Cloud get in the way of your info. So please, Cloud advocates, give up. If you go by story only, Cloud would lose. If you go by gameplay, there's just no chance. I'll tell you how: if you say that Auron can't use magic, then Cloud only has Thunder and Blizzard since that's all he starts out with. If you say Cloud can use anything more than that, then Auron can use all of his. It's impossible to say that Cloud can use Master Magic and that Auron only has the Break skills (Power Break, Mental Break, etc.). Give up, Auron is both cooler and better.

IceDefenseGod

If you can argue this to someone as big a fan boy as myself, YOU are the true fan boy.

If I can argue against you I'm a fan boy?.....................-_-

If you can flat-out say that Cloud would win, you're allowing your attachment to Cloud TO get in the way of your info.

And yet I've given explicit details on my claim. Plus I never said I had an attachment to Cloud.

If you go by gameplay, there's just no chance

As stated before, the only way to determine this fight is storyline-wise with their basic weapons and abilities ACCORDING to the story.

if you say that Auron can't use magic, then Cloud only has Thunder and Blizzard since that is all he starts out with.

Storyline-wise he has Bahamut-Sin as well.

If you say Cloud can use ANYTHING more than that, then Auron can use ALL of his

So now you want a handicap for Cloud?

It's impossible to say that Cloud can use Master Magic and that Auron only has the Break skills

Cloud wouldn't be using the Master Materia because we never see it used in the story-line. Giving Auron the break skills is too much as well considering he's never used them story-line wise.