Best story in a Final Fantasy game?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="bowserjr123"]

I don't think I've heard that line yet (just starting disc 3) but yeah, I really don't care for his huge craving for food so far though and the fact that he reminds me of Riki lol

And Amarant just joined my team, he seems pretty bada$$ so far.

Also, the ending of disc 2 was pretty epic though, I'm looking forward to seeing how the characters deal with Kuja.

bowserjr123

I'm pretty sure that line is in disc 2. It occurs when...

[spoiler] ...Dagger and Ziddane and Vivi and Quina get "married" to get out of Condie Petie. After the marriage ceremony, Quina says "I...so...happy..." [/spoiler]

Amarant is cool, but I feel he's a little underused.

Things get pretty intense as far as Kuja is concerned.

Yeah you're right, now I remember that line, that whole scenario was pretty hilarious.

And yeah, the death of [spoiler] Brahne [/spoiler] was pretty intense at the end of disc 2.

Overall, great game so far but not as great as VI. I feel like the story is a bit overbearing on the gameplay but that's just me.

One thing I love about FFIX is that it has the most humor in the series while still taking itself pretty seriously.

Isn't disliking FF7 the biggest blasphemy in gaminng?

Isn't disliking FF7 the biggest blasphemy in gaminng?

Ilovegames1992

To some people, yes. I think it's a bit overrated myself, but still an excellent RPG.

My Favorites:

- FF VII
- FF XII
- FF IV
- FF VI

Least Favorite:

- FF VIII
- FF X
- FF XIII
- FF X-2

lol. Pretty hard to be a literature major without reading books. On the other hand, judging by the way you express yourself, I have my doubts you've even graduated high school.

Anyway, like I said before, just because you insist on your taste does not make it good.

And lol at thinking Star Ocean: The Second Story has a better story than FFX? WTF? :lol: And then you have the nerve to talk about cliche anime garbage. lol.

GreySeal9

You have yet to ever explain one reason why you think the way you do. SOTS may have anime esk art,but there are very few anime like story twists for its 90 hours of gameplay. It an Xenogears have more in common then any other game that comes to mind, yet once again you single one thing out, and you singled the wrong thing out. Tales of destiny 2 is the cliche anime game I planted in that list. Sorry is that to expensive for an literaturemajor to afford also? Damn my supposed non-highschool graduating self sure rakes in the dough over you huh?

If you're an literature major you need to get your money back. Personal attacks haven't answerd any of my questions at all. My taste in games is great, people who play RPGesk games would have an hell of a time disagreeing with the games I like. You on the other hand like FFX, an from what I gather FFX-2 for their story.... That says enough for anyone who enjoys great RPGS, that you don't have a clue what is good or bad

P.s What lit major doesn't know King Arthur?

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Isn't disliking FF7 the biggest blasphemy in gaminng?

GreySeal9

To some people, yes. I think it's a bit overrated myself, but still an excellent RPG.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Is it immediately obvious that the Cloister of Trials is technology tho? I could see how, in a world like Spira, it could be mistaken from something magical.

GreySeal9

actually yes, it is immediately apparent that it is technology

Because there is electricity present? There are plenty of examples of electricity that is not associated with machina.

ma·chine

1. a. A device consisting of fixed and moving parts that modifies mechanical energy and transmits it in a more useful form.

b. A simple device, such as a lever, a pulley, or an inclined plane, that alters the magnitude or direction, or both, of an applied force; a simple machine.

both of these apply to what you see in the video

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

lol. Pretty hard to be a literature major without reading books. On the other hand, judging by the way you express yourself, I have my doubts you've even graduated high school.

Anyway, like I said before, just because you insist on your taste does not make it good.

And lol at thinking Star Ocean: The Second Story has a better story than FFX? WTF? :lol: And then you have the nerve to talk about cliche anime garbage. lol.

Valknut4

You have yet to ever explain one reason why you think the way you do. SOTS may have anime esk art,but there are very few anime like story twists for its 90 hours of gameplay. It an Xenogears have more in common then any other game that comes to mind, yet once again you single one thing out, and you singled the wrong thing out. Tales of destiny 2 is the cliche anime game I planted in that list. Sorry is that to expensive for an english major to afford also? Damn my supposed non-highschool graduating self sure rakes in the dough over you huh?

If you're an literature major you need to get your money back. Personal attacks haven't answerd any of my questions at all. My taste in games is great, people who play RPGesk games would have an hell of a time disagreeing with the games I like. You on the other hand like FFX, an from what I gather FFX-2 for their story.... That says enough for anyone who enjoys great RPGS, that you don't have a clue what is good or bad

P.s What lit major doesn't know King Arthur?

I'm guessing that your mother buys your games for you.

I have given explanations to the people who deserve them. If you engage me intelligently as AcidSoldner or Riplas did, then I will engage you in turn. But you've done nothing but say "I have great taste." But you seem like a dunce to me, so why should that be persuasive to me?

What the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension? Never once did I say or imply that I don't know King Arthur and I haven't even played FFX-2. So you're not "gathering" information correctly. If your reading comprehension is so awful, what makes you think that you have so much credibility in determining what's bad or good? If you have such abysmal reading comprehension, why should I take your opinion on books even somewhat seriously?

Also, I don't care what games you like. It's irrelevant.

Lastly, Star Ocean's anime art is not the only thing I'm zeroing in on. The story is the definition of cliche. Or do you actually think Claude and Rena are original characters and saving teh world from teh ten wise men is an original plot? Star Ocean is just the standard "defeat the bad guys" tale whereas Sin actually differs from other villains in that it is not so much evil as it is a representation of chaos and uncertainty.

Also, Star Ocean is hardly 90 hours and the length has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the story unless it impacts the pacing. Again, if you cannot seperate a game's length from its narravtive, why should you be taken seriously?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

actually yes, it is immediately apparent that it is technology

rilpas

Because there is electricity present? There are plenty of examples of electricity that is not associated with machina.

ma·chine

1. a. A device consisting of fixed and moving parts that modifies mechanical energy and transmits it in a more useful form.

b. A simple device, such as a lever, a pulley, or an inclined plane, that alters the magnitude or direction, or both, of an applied force; a simple machine.

both of these apply to what you see in the video

The thing is, I'm not saying that what's in the video is not machina. What I am saying is that the characters might not see it that way because of the infulence of Yevon. So, because the temples are associated with Yevon, they may not see it as technology, but more like the same kind of magic that powers aeons.

I think what's happening is that you're looking at the temples from an outside view that's less biased than the characters' beliefs. They are looking it at him from the view of people who don't question Yevon because of its authority. How many Christians deny obvious incongruities because of the way they've been taught?

The funny thins is, many of the arguments against FFX make me realize that it actually accurately pinpoints some things about human nature. Absolutely obedience to authority can cause cognitive dissonance. In the same way, AcidSoldners point about the Al Bhed's objection to sacrificing summoners makes me appreciate that the game deals with utilitarianism versus the value of individual lives.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Because there is electricity present? There are plenty of examples of electricity that is not associated with machina.

GreySeal9

ma·chine

1. a. A device consisting of fixed and moving parts that modifies mechanical energy and transmits it in a more useful form.

b. A simple device, such as a lever, a pulley, or an inclined plane, that alters the magnitude or direction, or both, of an applied force; a simple machine.

both of these apply to what you see in the video

The thing is, I'm not saying that what's in the video is not machina. What I am saying is that the characters might not see it that way because of the infulence of Yevon. So, because the temples are associated with Yevon, they may not see it as technology, but more like the same kind of magic that powers aeons.

I think what's happening is that you're looking at the temples from an outside view that's less biased than the characters' beliefs. They are looking it at him from the view of people who don't question Yevon because of its authority. How many Christians deny obvious incongruities because of the way they've been taught?

The funny thins is, many of the arguments against FFX make me realize that it actually accurately pinpoints some things about human nature. Absolutely obedience to authority can cause cognitive dissonance. In the same way, AcidSoldners point about the Al Bhed's objection to sacrificing summoners makes me appreciate that the game deals with utilitarianism versus the value of individual lives.

I think you're just over-rationalizing something that can't be rationalizing. what you're doing is no different then the "Squall is dead" theory for Final Fantasy 8, it makes sense in the context but only because people want it to.

These were oversights on the developers, were they not then either:

A) A character or a narrator would have pointed out something for audience

or

B) It would have been a common theme throughout the game, make something apparent to the viewer that is not apparent to the characters

So either this was an oversight but the creators, or a result of poor story-telling. Take your pick

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

ma·chine

1. a. A device consisting of fixed and moving parts that modifies mechanical energy and transmits it in a more useful form.

b. A simple device, such as a lever, a pulley, or an inclined plane, that alters the magnitude or direction, or both, of an applied force; a simple machine.

both of these apply to what you see in the video

rilpas

The thing is, I'm not saying that what's in the video is not machina. What I am saying is that the characters might not see it that way because of the infulence of Yevon. So, because the temples are associated with Yevon, they may not see it as technology, but more like the same kind of magic that powers aeons.

I think what's happening is that you're looking at the temples from an outside view that's less biased than the characters' beliefs. They are looking it at him from the view of people who don't question Yevon because of its authority. How many Christians deny obvious incongruities because of the way they've been taught?

The funny thins is, many of the arguments against FFX make me realize that it actually accurately pinpoints some things about human nature. Absolutely obedience to authority can cause cognitive dissonance. In the same way, AcidSoldners point about the Al Bhed's objection to sacrificing summoners makes me appreciate that the game deals with utilitarianism versus the value of individual lives.

I think you're just over-rationalizing something that can't be rationalizing. what you're doing is no different then the "Squall is dead" theory for Final Fantasy 8, it makes sense in the context but only because people want it to.

These were oversights on the developers, were they not then either:

A) A character or a narrator would have pointed out something for audience

or

B) It would have been a common theme throughout the game, make something apparent to the viewer that is not apparent to the characters

So either this was an oversight but the creators, or a result of poor story-telling. Take your pick

I can see why you think that, but I don't think it's true in this case because blind obedience to Yevon was a central theme in the story. Again, I think you are looking at it from the perspective of Riplas, who can be objective about what's going in the story, and the characters, who will find it harder to be objective due to conditioning.

Actually, I'd argue that the story wouldn't make pyschological/emotional sense and that some of the story's theme would fall apart if the characters were wise to Yevon.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

The thing is, I'm not saying that what's in the video is not machina. What I am saying is that the characters might not see it that way because of the infulence of Yevon. So, because the temples are associated with Yevon, they may not see it as technology, but more like the same kind of magic that powers aeons.

I think what's happening is that you're looking at the temples from an outside view that's less biased than the characters' beliefs. They are looking it at him from the view of people who don't question Yevon because of its authority. How many Christians deny obvious incongruities because of the way they've been taught?

The funny thins is, many of the arguments against FFX make me realize that it actually accurately pinpoints some things about human nature. Absolutely obedience to authority can cause cognitive dissonance. In the same way, AcidSoldners point about the Al Bhed's objection to sacrificing summoners makes me appreciate that the game deals with utilitarianism versus the value of individual lives.

GreySeal9

I think you're just over-rationalizing something that can't be rationalizing. what you're doing is no different then the "Squall is dead" theory for Final Fantasy 8, it makes sense in the context but only because people want it to.

These were oversights on the developers, were they not then either:

A) A character or a narrator would have pointed out something for audience

or

B) It would have been a common theme throughout the game, make something apparent to the viewer that is not apparent to the characters

So either this was an oversight but the creators, or a result of poor story-telling. Take your pick

I can see why you think that, but I don't think it's true in this case because blind obedience to Yevon was a central theme in the story. Again, I think you are looking at it from the perspective of Riplas, who can be objective about what's going in the story, and the characters, who will find it harder to be objective due to conditioning.

Actually, I'd argue that the story wouldn't make pyschological/emotional sense and that some of the story's theme would fall apart if the characters were wise to Yevon.

but there are ways around that. Have them revisit the temples or have them mention the technology in the temples.

Make it so the characters aren't wise to Yevon but the viewer/gamer suspects something is up.

This is basic story telling :\

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

lol. Pretty hard to be a literature major without reading books. On the other hand, judging by the way you express yourself, I have my doubts you've even graduated high school.

Anyway, like I said before, just because you insist on your taste does not make it good.

And lol at thinking Star Ocean: The Second Story has a better story than FFX? WTF? :lol: And then you have the nerve to talk about cliche anime garbage. lol.

Valknut4

If you're an literature major you need to get your money back. Personal attacks haven't answerd any of my questions at all. My taste in games is great, people who play RPGesk games would have an hell of a time disagreeing with the games I like. You on the other hand like FFX, an from what I gather FFX-2 for their story.... That says enough for anyone who enjoys great RPGS, that you don't have a clue what is good or bad

I'm guessing that you mother buys your games for you.

I have given explanations to the people who deserve them. If you engage me intelligently as AcidSoldner or Riplas did, then I will engage you in turn. But you've done nothing but say "I have great taste." But you seem like a dunce to me, so why should that be persuasive to me?

What the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension? Never once did I say or imply that I don't know Kind Arthur and I haven't even played FFX-2. So you're not "gathering" information correctly. If your reading comprehension is so awful, what makes you think that you have so much credibility in determing what's bad or good?

Also, I don't care what games you like. It's irrelevant to the conversation.

Lastly, Star Ocean's anime art is not the only thing I'm zeroing in on. The story is the definition of cliche. Or do you actually think Claude and Rena are original characters and saving teh world from teh ten wise men is an original plot? Star Ocean is just the standard "defeat the bad guys" tale whereas Sin actually differs from other villains in that it is not so much evil as it is a representation of chaos and uncertainty.

GreySeal9

1.You said I doubt you are well read, then you said I don't care about your taste in books, implying you do not know what story The lady in the Lake was from. It was an A to B connection. Wooosh, suprised you didn't google it an tell me about a movie from the late 40's though, my trap card was a sure thing to.

2. Yet you defend a game that needs a sequel as terrible as X-2, Yet don't play it? Logic? For someone who loves FFX like its his own child, you can only assume you would play the sequal. I guess parents never love their 2nd child more then the first boo woo : ' (

3. It is, when comparing art all you have is your taste vs another persons taste. Thats why some think Twilight the books/movies are good, an others think they are pure crap. Wiether I think either way doesn't matter all that much as I haven't seen or read them. I have played FFX sadly. You should show credit where credit is due to people better at your craft then you are, like the twilight author.

Enjoy ignorance, an resorting to personal attacks. There not working for you, but hey that literature degree isn't either so I guess you are used to it. If 100-200 games are to expensive for you, you better stop going to the movies, or playing any games at all. If you cannot afford something that gives you entertainment at 2$ an hour you're in dire straits.

Anywho, before you cry yourself to sleep over this, which we may be to late to avoid. I'll just bow out an let you live in a dreamland.

[QUOTE="bowserjr123"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I'm pretty sure that line is in disc 2. It occurs when...

[spoiler] ...Dagger and Ziddane and Vivi and Quina get "married" to get out of Condie Petie. After the marriage ceremony, Quina says "I...so...happy..." [/spoiler]

Amarant is cool, but I feel he's a little underused.

Things get pretty intense as far as Kuja is concerned.

GreySeal9

Yeah you're right, now I remember that line, that whole scenario was pretty hilarious.

And yeah, the death of [spoiler] Brahne [/spoiler] was pretty intense at the end of disc 2.

Overall, great game so far but not as great as VI. I feel like the story is a bit overbearing on the gameplay but that's just me.

One thing I love about FFIX is that it has the most humor in the series while still taking itself pretty seriously.

Agreed, it has a great mix of the two.

You seem to have a solid opinion on the series judging from your posts. What other RPGs are your favorites?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

I think you're just over-rationalizing something that can't be rationalizing. what you're doing is no different then the "Squall is dead" theory for Final Fantasy 8, it makes sense in the context but only because people want it to.

These were oversights on the developers, were they not then either:

A) A character or a narrator would have pointed out something for audience

or

B) It would have been a common theme throughout the game, make something apparent to the viewer that is not apparent to the characters

So either this was an oversight but the creators, or a result of poor story-telling. Take your pick

rilpas

I can see why you think that, but I don't think it's true in this case because blind obedience to Yevon was a central theme in the story. Again, I think you are looking at it from the perspective of Riplas, who can be objective about what's going in the story, and the characters, who will find it harder to be objective due to conditioning.

Actually, I'd argue that the story wouldn't make pyschological/emotional sense and that some of the story's theme would fall apart if the characters were wise to Yevon.

but there are ways around that. Have them revisit the temples or have them mention the technology in the temples.

Make it so the characters aren't wise to Yevon but the viewer/gamer suspects something is up.

This is basic story telling :\

But on some level, isn't that what is all ready happening? You, as an objective observer, realize that there is something amiss in that there is machina in the temples. The characters, as non-objective players in the narrative, don't realize that there is something amiss because they have emotional/psychological investment in Yevon that causes them to assume that somehow the temples as "different" than the machina that the Al Bhed uses.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="bowserjr123"]

Yeah you're right, now I remember that line, that whole scenario was pretty hilarious.

And yeah, the death of [spoiler] Brahne [/spoiler] was pretty intense at the end of disc 2.

Overall, great game so far but not as great as VI. I feel like the story is a bit overbearing on the gameplay but that's just me.

bowserjr123

One thing I love about FFIX is that it has the most humor in the series while still taking itself pretty seriously.

Agreed, it has a great mix of the two.

You seem to have a solid opinion on the series judging from your posts. What other RPGs are your favorites?

Well, Chrono Cross is my favorite RPG of all time and Chrono Trigger is not far behind. I also am a huge fan of Skies of Arcadia. Persona 3 is also fast becoming one of my favorites.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I can see why you think that, but I don't think it's true in this case because blind obedience to Yevon was a central theme in the story. Again, I think you are looking at it from the perspective of Riplas, who can be objective about what's going in the story, and the characters, who will find it harder to be objective due to conditioning.

Actually, I'd argue that the story wouldn't make pyschological/emotional sense and that some of the story's theme would fall apart if the characters were wise to Yevon.

GreySeal9

but there are ways around that. Have them revisit the temples or have them mention the technology in the temples.

Make it so the characters aren't wise to Yevon but the viewer/gamer suspects something is up.

This is basic story telling :\

But on some level, isn't that what is all ready happening? You, as an objective observer, realize that there is something amiss in that there is machina in the temples. The characters, as non-objective players in the narrative, don't realize that there is something amiss because they have emotional/psychological investment in Yevon that causes them to assume that somehow the temples as "different" than the machina that the Al Bhed uses.

but again: It's making me ask the wrong questions, especially considering how big the game is and as I said three times already, the fact that the game never re-visited this only makes it seem like it was an oversight.

And considering all the missteps the game takes with its plot only further enhances this.

I won't bother commenting on the pointless literary/education debate, but I will comment on two other things.....

1) opinions/tastes are inherantly subjective, and are therefore only "great" by the same notions of subjectivity.

2) I personally agree completely that "Star Ocean Second Story" is by leaps and bounds superior to "Final Fantasy X"

TheKungFool

When talking about art all you have is your taste vs another persons taste. You agree or you don't. Justin Beber vs Frank Synatra, is a hard question for some, but we all knwo who has good taste or appreciation for good music when one is said over the other correct?

An no I don't think FFX is as bad as JB, but it is in a catagory that appeals to childish story telling. How did we go from Illusions of Gaia to FFX in the evolution of gaming as an art? Easy, once mass market finds out teenage boys/girls like something they exploit what appeals to them, aka really terrible characters like Squall, Tidus, Zell, Rinoa, Zidane(Mostly design, not personality) an to an extent Cloud(Mostly personality, not design).

Or at least thats what I think, I'm sure others can argue that somehow Illusions of gaia is some how a cliche story, an some how FFX is a ground breaking story.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I'm guessing that you mother buys your games for you.

I have given explanations to the people who deserve them. If you engage me intelligently as AcidSoldner or Riplas did, then I will engage you in turn. But you've done nothing but say "I have great taste." But you seem like a dunce to me, so why should that be persuasive to me?

What the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension? Never once did I say or imply that I don't know Kind Arthur and I haven't even played FFX-2. So you're not "gathering" information correctly. If your reading comprehension is so awful, what makes you think that you have so much credibility in determing what's bad or good?

Also, I don't care what games you like. It's irrelevant to the conversation.

Lastly, Star Ocean's anime art is not the only thing I'm zeroing in on. The story is the definition of cliche. Or do you actually think Claude and Rena are original characters and saving teh world from teh ten wise men is an original plot? Star Ocean is just the standard "defeat the bad guys" tale whereas Sin actually differs from other villains in that it is not so much evil as it is a representation of chaos and uncertainty.

Valknut4

1.You said I doubt you are well read, then you said I don't care about your taste in books, implying you do not know what story The lady in the Lake was from. It was an A to B connection. Wooosh, suprised you didn't google it an tell me about a movie from the late 40's though, my trap card was a sure thing to.

2. Yet you defend a game that needs a sequel as terrible as X-2, Yet don't play it? Logic? For someone who loves FFX like its his own child, you can only assume you would play the sequal. I guess parents never love their 2nd child more then the first boo woo : ' (

3. It is, when comparing art all you have is your taste vs another persons taste. Thats why some think Twilight the books/movies are good, an others think they are pure crap. Wiether I think either way doesn't matter all that much as I haven't seen or read them. I have played FFX sadly. You should show credit where credit is due to people better at your craft then you are, like the twilight author.

Enjoy ignorance, an resorting to personal attacks. There not working for you, but hey that literature degree isn't either so I guess you are used to it. If 100-200 games are to expensive for you, you better stop going to the movies, or playing any games at all. If you cannot afford something that gives you entertainment at 2$ an hour you're in dire straits.

Anywho, before you cry yourself to sleep over this, which we may be to late to avoid. I'll just bow out an let you live in a dreamland.

First of all, I ignored your Lady in the Lake comment because it's irrelevant. Nowhere did I imply that I didn't know of it (again, your reading comprehension is abysmal). I don't care if you name drop fairly famous and obvious literature. Your level of discourse makes me think you are not well read. You don't strike me as someone who is intellectually curious.

There is no rule saying I have to play the sequel of a game I liked. And you have the nerve to slam other people's logic. :lol:

The rest of your post is just you being angry. Summary of these exchanges: You tried to throw around your opinion and expected it to have weight, and when it didn't, you got mad.If you want to simmer down and actually discuss the game, I'll be happy to do so, but I'm not going to seriously engage someone whose argument is "I have awesome taste herp derp!"

You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension as well because it's impossible to have a conversation with someone who can't grasp the most basic parts of the discussion.

[QUOTE="Valknut4"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

lol. Pretty hard to be a literature major without reading books. On the other hand, judging by the way you express yourself, I have my doubts you've even graduated high school.

Anyway, like I said before, just because you insist on your taste does not make it good.

And lol at thinking Star Ocean: The Second Story has a better story than FFX? WTF? :lol: And then you have the nerve to talk about cliche anime garbage. lol.

TheKungFool

If you're an literature major you need to get your money back. Personal attacks haven't answerd any of my questions at all. My taste in games is great, people who play RPGesk games would have an hell of a time disagreeing with the games I like. You on the other hand like FFX, an from what I gather FFX-2 for their story.... That says enough for anyone who enjoys great RPGS, that you don't have a clue what is good or bad

I can see how someone might think Star Ocean: Second Story is a superior game to FFX. I don't think it is, but it's very obvious to me why one would choose it as the better game.

I just really don't see how it has a superior story. Star Ocean: Second Story is as trite as it gets in that department. The story is decent, but it doesn't do anything even slightly interesting.

However, I agree that tastes/opinions are subjective.

[QUOTE="TheKungFool"]

I won't bother commenting on the pointless literary/education debate, but I will comment on two other things.....

1) opinions/tastes are inherantly subjective, and are therefore only "great" by the same notions of subjectivity.

2) I personally agree completely that "Star Ocean Second Story" is by leaps and bounds superior to "Final Fantasy X"

Valknut4

When talking about art all you have is your taste vs another persons taste. You agree or you don't. Justin Beber vs Frank Synatra, is a hard question for some, but we all knwo who has good taste or appreciation for good music when one is said over the other correct?

An no I don't think FFX is as bad as JB, but it is in a catagory that appeals to childish story telling. How did we go from Illusions of Gaia to FFX in the evolution of gaming as an art? Easy, once mass market finds out teenage boys/girls like something they exploit what appeals to them, aka really terrible characters like Squall, Tidus, Zell, Rinoa, Zidane(Mostly design, not personality) an to an extent Cloud(Mostly personality, not design).

Or at least thats what I think, I'm sure others can argue that somehow Illusions of gaia is some how a cliche story, an some how FFX is a ground breaking story.

Bingo.

You can think these things all you want and you might have valid reasons for your opinions, but you have not put forth the effort to explain or adequately argue your opinions. You have expected them to have weight simply because you hold them and then you got cranky when that didn't pan out.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

but there are ways around that. Have them revisit the temples or have them mention the technology in the temples.

Make it so the characters aren't wise to Yevon but the viewer/gamer suspects something is up.

This is basic story telling :\

rilpas

But on some level, isn't that what is all ready happening? You, as an objective observer, realize that there is something amiss in that there is machina in the temples. The characters, as non-objective players in the narrative, don't realize that there is something amiss because they have emotional/psychological investment in Yevon that causes them to assume that somehow the temples as "different" than the machina that the Al Bhed uses.

but again: It's making me ask the wrong questions, especially considering how big the game is and as I said three times already, the fact that the game never re-visited this only makes it seem like it was an oversight.

And considering all the missteps the game takes with its plot only further enhances this.

In what manner do you think the issue should have been revisited?

Although I do admit that there is some sloppy storytelling in FFX, I don't see how the plot would benefit from them spelling everything out. To me, the characters simply took the temples from granted and that was the end of it from my perspective.

But I'll agree to disagree on this point because I can only argue how this particular part came off to me.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"] Well, Chrono Cross is my favorite RPG of all time and Chrono Trigger is not far behind. I also am a huge fan of Skies of Arcadia. Persona 3 is also fast becoming one of my favorites. Allicrombie

Secret of Mana has wonderful art design.

First of all, I ignoredyour Lady in the Lake comment because it's irrelevant. Nowhere did I imply that I didn't know of it (again, your reading comprehension is abysmal). I don't care if you name drop fairly famous and obvious literature. Your level of discourse makes me think you are not well read. You don't strike me as someone who is intellectually curious.

There is no rule saying I have to play the sequel of a game I liked. And you have the nerve to slam other people's logic. :lol:

The rest of your post is just you being angry. Summary of these exchanges: You tried to throw around your opinion and expected it to have weight, and when it didn't, you got mad.If you want to simmer down and actually discuss the game, I'll be happy to do so, but I'm not going to seriously engage someone whose argument is "I have awesome taste herp derp!"

You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension as well because it's impossible to have a conversation with someone who can't grasp the most basic parts of the discussion.

GreySeal9

When I compare FFX(Twilight books) to FFT (Lady in the Lake) its relavent. Bolded "reading comprehension " for irony.

Yes people that loved FFX would obivously never play FFX-2, thats so illogical. Crazy I know! I bolded " logic " because I'm not sure you know what it means.

There is no anger in there, there was some humor, but no anger. Despite you thinking "my mom buys me my games", an that I never "finished high school". Hypocrit comes to mind, but then it leaves to replaced by every sentance you finish with " lol " and is replaced by /facepalm.

What "discussion "you have yet to answer anyones questions about why FFX is a good story, with unique characters. The only thing you have said is your taste in characters like Titus is more right, and that other peoples taste in characters like Edgar more is wrong. Hypocrit strike number 2.

I'm just a simple trades worker who likes a good story, the games I like are liked pretty universaly by the RPG community, thats how I know I have good taste. You assume you have good taste, but you just said Chrono Cross was your favortie RPG so that kind of ruins that.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

First of all, I ignoredyour Lady in the Lake comment because it's irrelevant. Nowhere did I imply that I didn't know of it (again, your reading comprehension is abysmal). I don't care if you name drop fairly famous and obvious literature. Your level of discourse makes me think you are not well read. You don't strike me as someone who is intellectually curious.

There is no rule saying I have to play the sequel of a game I liked. And you have the nerve to slam other people's logic. :lol:

The rest of your post is just you being angry. Summary of these exchanges: You tried to throw around your opinion and expected it to have weight, and when it didn't, you got mad.If you want to simmer down and actually discuss the game, I'll be happy to do so, but I'm not going to seriously engage someone whose argument is "I have awesome taste herp derp!"

You're going to have to work on your reading comprehension as well because it's impossible to have a conversation with someone who can't grasp the most basic parts of the discussion.

Valknut4

When I compare FFX(Twilight books) to FFT (Lady in the Lake) its relavent. Bolded "reading comprehension " for irony.

Yes people that loved FFX would obivously never play FFX-2, thats so illogical. Crazy I know! I bolded " logic " because I'm not sure you know what it means.

There is no anger in there, there was some humor, but no anger. Despite you thinking "my mom buys me my games", an that I never "finished high school". Hypocrit comes to mind, but then it leaves to replaced by every sentance you finish with " lol " and is replaced by /facepalm.

What "discussion "you have yet to answer anyones questions about why FFX is a good story, with unique characters. The only thing you have said is your taste in characters like Titus is more right, and that other peoples taste in characters like Edgar more is wrong. Hypocrit strike number 2.

I'm just a simple trades worker who likes a good story, the games I like are liked pretty universaly by the RPG community, thats how I know I have good taste. You assume you have good taste, but you just said Chrono Cross was your favortie RPG so that kind of ruins that.

No, Lady in the Lake is not relevant to FF. I'll discuss the FF games on their own merits, but I'm not going to discuss literature with you when you can't even coherently talk about games.

Also, you were plain wrong about FFX-2, so you should probably just quit making assumptions all together and focus on FFX itself.

I never actually said my taste in characters like Tidus is more right and that people who like Edgar are wrong. I never even mentioned Edgar. Actually, I don't even think Tidus is better than Edgar at all. Why in the world are you fvcking up so bad in terms of your reading comprehension? What in the world went on in your brain to make you think I said that people who like Edgar are wrong? What were going off of? Please explain that for me because it blows my mind that anybody can be so lacking in terms of basic reading comprehension.

Chrono Cross is one of the highest rated RPGs of all time. Critics are not everything, but they sure have more credibility than someone who lacks even the most basic comprehension skills.

And yes, you are definitely mad. Not raging mad, but you are irritated that you opinion doesn't hold as much weight as you want it to.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

But on some level, isn't that what is all ready happening? You, as an objective observer, realize that there is something amiss in that there is machina in the temples. The characters, as non-objective players in the narrative, don't realize that there is something amiss because they have emotional/psychological investment in Yevon that causes them to assume that somehow the temples as "different" than the machina that the Al Bhed uses.

GreySeal9

but again: It's making me ask the wrong questions, especially considering how big the game is and as I said three times already, the fact that the game never re-visited this only makes it seem like it was an oversight.

And considering all the missteps the game takes with its plot only further enhances this.

In what manner do you think the issue should have been revisited?

Although I do admit that there is some sloppy storytelling in FFX, I don't see how the plot would benefit from them spelling everything out. To me, the characters simply took the temples from granted and that was the end of it from my perspective.

But I'll agree to disagree on this point because I can only argue how this particular part came off to me.

Could have been easilly adressed actually, simply have say.. Yuna or Wakka think back to everything about Yevon's religion that didn't /quite/ make sense

or have Auron sarcastically remark the technology present in the cloyster that no one ever seems to question.

It'd take less then a minute and it would be a genius because it was something the player saw and he might not have questioned himself

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

but again: It's making me ask the wrong questions, especially considering how big the game is and as I said three times already, the fact that the game never re-visited this only makes it seem like it was an oversight.

And considering all the missteps the game takes with its plot only further enhances this.

rilpas

In what manner do you think the issue should have been revisited?

Although I do admit that there is some sloppy storytelling in FFX, I don't see how the plot would benefit from them spelling everything out. To me, the characters simply took the temples from granted and that was the end of it from my perspective.

But I'll agree to disagree on this point because I can only argue how this particular part came off to me.

Could have been easilly adressed actually, simply have say.. Yuna or Wakka think back to everything about Yevon's religion that didn't /quite/ make sense

or have Auron sarcastically remark the technology present in the cloyster that no one ever seems to question.

It'd take less then a minute and it would be a genius because it was something the player saw and he might not have questioned himself

But the thing is, what would be the impetus for Yuna and Wakka reflecting on Yevon if they've been so conditioned?

Tho the Auron sarcastic remark thing might make sense because Auron always seemed "know more" about what was going on than the others. Or atleast that's the impression that I got.

Edit: are you saying that Yuna and Wakka should've reflected after they found out that Yevon was indeed corrupt?

I've never played either Chrono but i as under the assumption most people who liked Trigger hated Cross.

[QUOTE="Valknut4"]

[QUOTE="TheKungFool"]

I won't bother commenting on the pointless literary/education debate, but I will comment on two other things.....

1) opinions/tastes are inherantly subjective, and are therefore only "great" by the same notions of subjectivity.

2) I personally agree completely that "Star Ocean Second Story" is by leaps and bounds superior to "Final Fantasy X"

GreySeal9

When talking about art all you have is your taste vs another persons taste. You agree or you don't. Justin Beber vs Frank Synatra, is a hard question for some, but we all knwo who has good taste or appreciation for good music when one is said over the other correct?

An no I don't think FFX is as bad as JB, but it is in a catagory that appeals to childish story telling. How did we go from Illusions of Gaia to FFX in the evolution of gaming as an art? Easy, once mass market finds out teenage boys/girls like something they exploit what appeals to them, aka really terrible characters like Squall, Tidus, Zell, Rinoa, Zidane(Mostly design, not personality) an to an extent Cloud(Mostly personality, not design).

Or at least thats what I think, I'm sure others can argue that somehow Illusions of gaia is some how a cliche story, an some how FFX is a ground breaking story.

Bingo. <---- meaning you agree

You can think these things all you want and you might have valid reasons for your opinions, but you have not put forth the effort to explain or adequately argue your opinions. You have expected them to have weight simply because you hold them and then you got cranky when that didn't pan out.

Once again I have yet to get angry, you resorted to the incredibly personal attacks with 0 provocation. My arguemnt still stands FFX is for young gamers with childish taste. FFT is far more mature an well thought out, across the board. But hey, its not liek you are ever goign to give reasons why FFX is so good, so why bother asking you to?

FFT Has an incredibly diverse story with very little fluff, there is no lets stop to enjoy the sunshine moment in FFT. FFT story could be turned into a book, and it would be an amazing book that rivals the Song of Fire an Ice. Not to mention FF11 is pretty much precusor to FFT so you have so much story to pull from.

I didn't need to explain this because if you havent played all the FF games how can you comment on which is the best? You can say I think FFX is the best, thinking isn't knowing though. An the topic is "Best story in a FF game?"

I've never played either Chrono but i as under the assumption most people who liked Trigger hated Cross.

Ilovegames1992

Not everybody, but there are indeed many people who felt that Chrono Cross was not similar enough to Trigger. I personally love what both of them set out to do.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

In what manner do you think the issue should have been revisited?

Although I do admit that there is some sloppy storytelling in FFX, I don't see how the plot would benefit from them spelling everything out. To me, the characters simply took the temples from granted and that was the end of it from my perspective.

But I'll agree to disagree on this point because I can only argue how this particular part came off to me.

GreySeal9

Could have been easilly adressed actually, simply have say.. Yuna or Wakka think back to everything about Yevon's religion that didn't /quite/ make sense

or have Auron sarcastically remark the technology present in the cloyster that no one ever seems to question.

It'd take less then a minute and it would be a genius because it was something the player saw and he might not have questioned himself

But the thing is, what would be the impetus for Yuna and Wakka reflecting on Yevon if they've been so conditioned?

Tho the Auron sarcastic remark thing might make sense because Auron always seemed "know more" about what was going on than the others. Or atleast that's the impression that I got.

Edit: are you saying that Yuna and Wakka should've reflected after they found out that Yevon was indeed corrupt?

Wakka was the most fervent believer of Yevon in the group, but his transition to a non-believer wasn't touched upon as much as it could have been, imo

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Valknut4"]

When talking about art all you have is your taste vs another persons taste. You agree or you don't. Justin Beber vs Frank Synatra, is a hard question for some, but we all knwo who has good taste or appreciation for good music when one is said over the other correct?

An no I don't think FFX is as bad as JB, but it is in a catagory that appeals to childish story telling. How did we go from Illusions of Gaia to FFX in the evolution of gaming as an art? Easy, once mass market finds out teenage boys/girls like something they exploit what appeals to them, aka really terrible characters like Squall, Tidus, Zell, Rinoa, Zidane(Mostly design, not personality) an to an extent Cloud(Mostly personality, not design).

Or at least thats what I think, I'm sure others can argue that somehow Illusions of gaia is some how a cliche story, an some how FFX is a ground breaking story.

Valknut4

Bingo. <---- meaning you agree

You can think these things all you want and you might have valid reasons for your opinions, but you have not put forth the effort to explain or adequately argue your opinions. You have expected them to have weight simply because you hold them and then you got cranky when that didn't pan out.

Once again I have yet to get angry, you resorted to the incredibly personal attacks with 0 provocation. My arguemnt still stands FFX is for young gamers with childish taste. FFT is far more mature an well thought out, across the board. But hey, its not liek you are ever goign to give reasons why FFX is so good, so why bother asking you to?

FFT Has an incredibly diverse story with very little fluff, there is no lets stop to enjoy the sunshine moment in FFT. FFT story could be turned into a book, and it would be an amazing book that rivals the Song of Fire an Ice. Not to mention FF11 is pretty much precusor to FFT so you have so much story to pull from.

I didn't need to explain this because if you havent played all the FF games how can you comment on which is the best? You can say I think FFX is the best, thinking isn't knowing though. An the topic is "Best story in a FF game?"

There has been plenty of explanation as to why I appreciate FFX's story in my exchanges with Riplas and AcidSoldner. I have not insulted them because they have responded intelligently. You haven't. The only thing you have done in display a shocking lack of reading comprehension ability.

I can comment on which FF is the best out of the ones I've played. Now tell me: why couldn't you figure out such simple logic by yourself?

"Bingo" means I agreed that that's what you think. But that's all it is. What you think. And why should I care about what you think when you are so intellectually lazy?

And yes, you are quite irritated that your opinions don't hold the weight that you want them to. That much is obvious.

[QUOTE="TheKungFool"]

I won't bother commenting on the pointless literary/education debate, but I will comment on two other things.....

1) opinions/tastes are inherantly subjective, and are therefore only "great" by the same notions of subjectivity.

2) I personally agree completely that "Star Ocean Second Story" is by leaps and bounds superior to "Final Fantasy X"

Valknut4

Justin Beber vs Frank Synatra, is a hard question for some, but we all knwo who has good taste or appreciation for good music when one is said over the other correct?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

Could have been easilly adressed actually, simply have say.. Yuna or Wakka think back to everything about Yevon's religion that didn't /quite/ make sense

or have Auron sarcastically remark the technology present in the cloyster that no one ever seems to question.

It'd take less then a minute and it would be a genius because it was something the player saw and he might not have questioned himself

rilpas

But the thing is, what would be the impetus for Yuna and Wakka reflecting on Yevon if they've been so conditioned?

Tho the Auron sarcastic remark thing might make sense because Auron always seemed "know more" about what was going on than the others. Or atleast that's the impression that I got.

Edit: are you saying that Yuna and Wakka should've reflected after they found out that Yevon was indeed corrupt?

Wakka was the most fervent believer of Yevon in the group, but his transition to a non-believer wasn't touched upon as much as it could have been, imo

Well, if you're saying that Wakka or whoever should have reflected on these things after finding out Yevon was corrupt, then I agree with you. It would have clarified things.

I think his transition to non-believer was fine simply because at the point he became a non-believer, Yevon's corruption was just too obvious to ignore.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

But the thing is, what would be the impetus for Yuna and Wakka reflecting on Yevon if they've been so conditioned?

Tho the Auron sarcastic remark thing might make sense because Auron always seemed "know more" about what was going on than the others. Or atleast that's the impression that I got.

Edit: are you saying that Yuna and Wakka should've reflected after they found out that Yevon was indeed corrupt?

GreySeal9

Wakka was the most fervent believer of Yevon in the group, but his transition to a non-believer wasn't touched upon as much as it could have been, imo

Well, if you're saying that Wakka or whoever should have reflected on these things after finding out Yevon was corrupt, then I agree with you. It would have clarified things.

I think his transition to non-believer was fine simply because at the point he became a non-believer, Yevon's corruption was just too obvious to ignore.

Oh, I know why he changed, I'd just like to see how it would have affected him. One doesn't simply give up on a life-long faith like that. A lot of people become prone to depression and that sort of thing.

but maybe that's a bit a too dark for what the creators were going for

[QUOTE="Valknut4"]

[QUOTE="TheKungFool"]

I won't bother commenting on the pointless literary/education debate, but I will comment on two other things.....

1) opinions/tastes are inherantly subjective, and are therefore only "great" by the same notions of subjectivity.

2) I personally agree completely that "Star Ocean Second Story" is by leaps and bounds superior to "Final Fantasy X"

TheKungFool

Justin Beber vs Frank Synatra, is a hard question for some, but we all knwo who has good taste or appreciation for good music when one is said over the other correct?

What I don't get is why Valknut can't just explain why he thinks the story is weak. I have been happy to discuss that with Riplas and AcidSoldner and while they have not convinced me that FFX's story is bad, they have definitely convinced me that the storytelling is sloppier than I thought.

Why does Valknut need to take cheap shortcuts like "my taste is awesomer than yours, herp derp!" It's so lazy.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]I'm saying they could've done it. Well... maybe Wakka should have. Yuna not so much.

Wakka was the most fervent believer of Yevon in the group, but his transition to a non-believer wasn't touched upon as much as it could have been, imo

rilpas

Well, if you're saying that Wakka or whoever should have reflected on these things after finding out Yevon was corrupt, then I agree with you. It would have clarified things.

I think his transition to non-believer was fine simply because at the point he became a non-believer, Yevon's corruption was just too obvious to ignore.

Oh, I know why he changed, I'd just like to see how it would have affected him. One doesn't simply give up on a life-long faith like that. A lot of people become prone to depression and that sort of thing.

but maybe that's a bit a too dark for what the creators were going for

Yeah, it seems a bit beyond the scope of Final Fantasy. It definitely would have made the story richer, no doubt about that, but they might have been biting off more than they can chew with that.

I mean, I love Final Fantasy, but it does have its limits. :P

No, Lady in the Lake is not relevant to FF. I'll discuss the FF games on their own merits, but I'm not going to discuss literature with you when you can't even coherently talk about games.

Also, you were plain wrong about FFX-2, so you should probably just quit making assumptions all together and focus on FFX itself.

I never actually said my taste in characters like Tidus is more right and that people who like Edgar are wrong. I never even mentioned Edgar. Actually, I don't even think Tidus is better than Edgar at all. Why in the world are you fvcking up so bad in terms of your reading comprehension? What in the world went on in your brain to make you think I said that people who like Edgar are wrong? What were going off of? Please explain that for me because it blows my mind that anybody can be so lacking in terms of basic reading comprehension.

Chrono Cross is one of the highest rated RPGs of all time. Critics are not everything, but they sure have more credibility than someone who lacks even the most basic comprehension skills.

And yes, you are definitely mad. Not raging mad, but you are irritated that you opinion doesn't hold as much weight as you want it to.

GreySeal9

Comparing art to art si relavent, espcialy when its story to story. Comparisons are not an illogical thing.

Why you think someone playing the squal to somethign si so far out there is confusing, an why you think making assumption is so out the question is boggling. Either way sure lets talk one bad game at a time.

When you say FFX is best FF story, do you not mean its better then the other ones? Reading comprehension. Back to the basics. When I say FFT is the best FF story I mean that, because in its story are the best characters, an the best plot highs and lows, and setting because those things make up a story. So if you think Edgar is a better character then the main character int eh best FF story there is probably something wrong with FFX story as edgar plays a small part in the overall story off FF6.

So yes you are in fact saying FFX's characters are better then every other FF character roster out there.

Yeah Mass effect 3 is also really well rated to, so was Skyrim. Wanna talk more about how reviews have any credibility at all? Speaking of which

"GreySeal9

Final Fantasy X is a beautiful mix of lovely aesthetic qualities and exemplary storytelling."

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Well, if you're saying that Wakka or whoever should have reflected on these things after finding out Yevon was corrupt, then I agree with you. It would have clarified things.

I think his transition to non-believer was fine simply because at the point he became a non-believer, Yevon's corruption was just too obvious to ignore.

GreySeal9

Oh, I know why he changed, I'd just like to see how it would have affected him. One doesn't simply give up on a life-long faith like that. A lot of people become prone to depression and that sort of thing.

but maybe that's a bit a too dark for what the creators were going for

Yeah, it seems a bit beyond the scope of Final Fantasy. It definitely would have made the story richer, no doubt about that, but they might have been biting off more than they can chew with that.

I mean, I love Final Fantasy, but it does have its limits. :P

Final Fantasy has done darker things, it's just that for better or worse Final Fantasy X is a very light hearted game, I mean, even the villains are kinda suck (I'm sorry, but Seymour is not menacing in any way, shape or form)

Comparing art to art si relavent, espcialy when its story to story. Comparisons are not an illogical thing.Valknut4

The way you used the comparison was lazy and a distraction from talking about the game itself.

Why you think someone playing the squal to somethign si so far out there is confusing, an why you think making assumption is so out the question is boggling. Either way sure lets talk one bad game at a time.Valknut4

You can keep trying to justify your assumption if you want, but you were wrong. Maybe if you actually had a strong argument based on FFX itself, you wouldn't have to make assumptions.

When you say FFX is best FF story, do you not mean its better then the other ones? Reading comprehension. Back to the basics. When I say FFT is the best FF story I mean that, because in its story are the best characters, an the best plot highs and lows, and setting because those things make up a story. So if you think Edgar is a better character then the main character int eh best FF story there is probably something wrong with FFX story as edgar plays a small part in the overall story off FF6.Valknut

^This post is why I am absolutely positive that you are not well read.

I do think FFX is the best story, but that doesn't mean that every aspect of it is better than every aspect of the others.

IMO, Edgar and Tidus are both good characters that fulfill their purpose within the context of the stories.When in the world did I say that Edgar is a better character? You do realize it's possible to think both characters are good and that one is not neccesarily better than the other, right? Why is your mind stuck in thinking in terms of either/ors and false dichotomies. Why do you lack the ability to simply comprehend statements as they are written? What is the glitch in your thinking that causes you to twist statements into some wierd logic that was never part of the convsersation? Why in the world would you overthink such a simple statement in such a ridiculous way? Honestly, I've never seen anything like this as far as bad reading comprehension goes.

So yes you are in fact saying FFX's characters are better then every other FF character roster out there.Valknut

Nope. Never said that. I actually have said in my reviews that FFIX and FFVI have better casts! I think FFX is the best story for reasons outside of characters. If you stop being an idiot, I will tell you those reasons.

Yeah Mass effect 3 is also really well rated to, so was Skyrim. Wanna talk more about how reviews have any credibility at all? Speaking of whichVaknut

I told you. I don't care about your opinion on any game. You seem like a dunce to me, so your opinion is worth zilch IMO.

"GreySeal9

Final Fantasy X is a beautiful mix of lovely aesthetic qualities and exemplary storytelling."Valknut

And this is why I said you are mad. Now you are irritated enough to bring my review into this. But feel free to read the review. I could always use more readers, even ones with disastrous reading comprehension!

possibly, but I would argue that its an irrelevant point if you're trying to sell sinatra to a teenage girl whom prefers Bieber.

the point is, appealing to the "popular consensus" is a poor way to defend your own tastes, and citing accademy award nominations isn't going to make someone watch "citizen kane" instead of "twilight".

basically, arguing "how good" your tastes are seems sorta pointless.

TheKungFool

You are correct selling a teenage girl J.B if she likes J.B is much smarter. 20 years into the future what are the chances said girl still likes J.B? This is how you know what good taste is. Well Frank Synatra may not be what the teen age girl buys, I would bet more teenage girls like Franky then mature people like J.B. Why do you think that is?

I have my own examples, I used to like Offspring, Linkin Park, Arch Enemy, Inflames, Paul Van Dyke and country music as a whole. Now a days I know I was listening to garbage, or only a few of their songs appeal to a mature mind that thinks for itself. An well I know that music dates me a bit, thing teenagers like are more or less things only teenagers like. Thus w have our twlight, an our J.B

Another 20 years down the road, will still hear about the glory days for RPGS back on SNES and PS1 like we hear about them now. Nothing will change, because classics are timeless, an J.B is a phase.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

Oh, I know why he changed, I'd just like to see how it would have affected him. One doesn't simply give up on a life-long faith like that. A lot of people become prone to depression and that sort of thing.

but maybe that's a bit a too dark for what the creators were going for

rilpas

Yeah, it seems a bit beyond the scope of Final Fantasy. It definitely would have made the story richer, no doubt about that, but they might have been biting off more than they can chew with that.

I mean, I love Final Fantasy, but it does have its limits. :P

Final Fantasy has done darker things, it's just that for better or worse Final Fantasy X is a very light hearted game, I mean, even the villains are kinda suck (I'm sorry, but Seymour is not menacing in any way, shape or form)

Well, I'm not sure Seymour is actually supposed to be all that menacing.

I don't really see FFX as all that light hearted. It seems pretty serious to me. There's not really too much humor and the themes it deals with are not at all light hearted.

I think FFX is the best story for reasons outside of characters. If you stop being an idiot, I will tell you those reasons.

GreySeal9

Tell me, all ears. Ps I reported you for all the personal attacks, Warned you one to many times.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Yeah, it seems a bit beyond the scope of Final Fantasy. It definitely would have made the story richer, no doubt about that, but they might have been biting off more than they can chew with that.

I mean, I love Final Fantasy, but it does have its limits. :P

GreySeal9

Final Fantasy has done darker things, it's just that for better or worse Final Fantasy X is a very light hearted game, I mean, even the villains are kinda suck (I'm sorry, but Seymour is not menacing in any way, shape or form)

Well, I'm not sure Seymour is actually supposed to be all that menacing.

I don't really see FFX as all that light hearted. It seems pretty serious to me. There's not really too much humor and the themes it deals with are not at all light hearted.

it's themes are serious, but the way it handles them... heh.

hence why I see it as a light hearted game

Final Fantasy has done darker things, it's just that for better or worse Final Fantasy X is a very light hearted game, I mean, even the villains are kinda suck (I'm sorry, but Seymour is not menacing in any way, shape or form)

rilpas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-pAMCwleLA

Prime example of a pretty great scene, not often do games go out of the way to suggest the possible murder of a child in front of her grandfather.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I think FFX is the best story for reasons outside of characters. If you stop being an idiot, I will tell you those reasons.

Valknut4

Tell me, all ears. Ps I reported you for all the personal attacks, Warned you one to many times.

Personal attacks are not actually against the TOU, so you're out of luck (and reporting me pretty much proves that you're pretty hot under the collar).

But I will give you a few examples of what I think are rich themes in FFX:

For instance, I think Sin is an interesting antangonist because he is not the usual villain intent on taking over the world. He is instead an emodiment of choas and uncertainty. The people of Spira can't pinpoint why Sin is in their lives and why he causes so much destruction and won't go away, so they blame themselves. This, in my estimation, is richer than a villain whose motives are spelled out in more black and white terms. Like I said, I appreciate how the people of Spira feel that they are responsible for Sin because of the way that they live their lives. To me, that is more mult-faceted than standard "good versus evil" paradigms.

I also think the story handles religion well. I think the story intelligenly shows show authority masquerades as the hope for the people while actually feeding into cycles that prolong Spira's suffering. I also think it's interesting how Yevon is actually, on some level, driving Sin's rebirth with a process that people think its designed to get rid of him. In this way, Yevon is more responsible for Sin while allowing the people to think they are.

I like how they handled Tidus's daddy issues. Where they could have went with a simple "Jecth was so mean" motivation for Tidus' hatred, they actually implied that Tidus was mad at him because of not getting attention from his mother. That was an interesting pyschological twist to a plotline that could have been simplistic and trite and one-sided.

I also think it flirts with gnostcism and utilitarianism atleast as well as the Xeno games flirt with various philosophies.

Stuff like that is why I like FFX's story. I think it has alot to unpack and I tend to gravitate to stories that are simple, but have alot to unpack.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

Final Fantasy has done darker things, it's just that for better or worse Final Fantasy X is a very light hearted game, I mean, even the villains are kinda suck (I'm sorry, but Seymour is not menacing in any way, shape or form)

rilpas

Well, I'm not sure Seymour is actually supposed to be all that menacing.

I don't really see FFX as all that light hearted. It seems pretty serious to me. There's not really too much humor and the themes it deals with are not at all light hearted.

it's themes are serious, but the way it handles them... heh.

hence why I see it as a light hearted game

Well, what do you think of the way that FFVI handles its serious themes and events?

[QUOTE="Valknut4"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I think FFX is the best story for reasons outside of characters. If you stop being an idiot, I will tell you those reasons.

GreySeal9

Tell me, all ears. Ps I reported you for all the personal attacks, Warned you one to many times.

Personal attacks are not actually against the TOU, so you're out of luck (and reporting me pretty much proves that you're pretty hot under the collar).

But I will give you a few examples of what I think are rich themes in FFX:

For instance, I think Sin is an interesting antangonist because he is not the usual villain intent on taking over the world. He is instead an emodiment of choas and uncertainty. The people of Spira can't pinpoint why Sin is in their lives and why he causes so much destruction and won't go away, so they blame themselves. This, in my estimation, is richer than a villain whose motives are spelled out in more black and white terms. Like I said, I appreciate how the people of Spira feel that they are responsible for Sin because of the way that they live their lives. To me, that is more mult-faceted than standard "good versus evil" paradigms.

I also think the story handles religion well. I think the story intelligenly shows show authority masquerades as the hope for people while actually feeding into cycles that prolong Spira's suffering.

I like how they handled Tidus's daddy issues. Where they could have went with a simple "Jecth was so mean" motivation for Tidus' hatred, they actually implied that Tidus was mad at him because of not getting attention from his mother. That was an interesting pyschological twist to a plotline that could have been simplistic and trite and one-sided.

I also think it flirts with gnostcism and utilitarianism atleast as well as the Xeno games flirt with various philosophies.

Stuff like that is why I like FFX's story. I think it has alot to unpack.

Why am I seeing censor bypassing, trolling, and flaming on the site?
Read the announcement. Each forum has its own set of rules. The Legacy forum expects respect. If another user is being disrespectful, you can return the behavior.

Oh so I should just be a dou.che bag like you. Nah I figure being an adult is the true way to defeating dou.che bags. Fair enoguh to each their own. Report has been sent either way.

So why is Tidus the main character an not Yuna?