This on-rail shooter games need to come to a damn stop!

[QUOTE="TaMuK711"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

No it's not, not at all

Jaysonguy

Prove me wrong. The technology is there to provide a good atmosphere for the game, EA just decided against it and took the easy way out.

No it's not

A Wii version of these rail shooter done in the "traditional" sense would have worse graphics, AI, sounds, and physics.

I don't know why you think the Wii is powerful enough to do these things.

This is preposterous.

I love these rail shooters... Every other damn system is flooded with dime a dozen FPS.. why would I want more of the same with worse graphics on the Wii? I bought a Wii because I didn't want to play the same games I already have on a PC/360..

Rail shooters are a huge reason why I look forward to turning on my wii.. a lot of fun with multiple people in the same room.

Why should rail shooters stop coming out? Some people like them.

Just don't buy them.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="TaMuK711"]

Prove me wrong. The technology is there to provide a good atmosphere for the game, EA just decided against it and took the easy way out.

Darth-Samus

No it's not

A Wii version of these rail shooter done in the "traditional" sense would have worse graphics, AI, sounds, and physics.

I don't know why you think the Wii is powerful enough to do these things.

This is preposterous.

If the Wii is at least twice as powerful as the Gamecube, and the GC gave us the best looking and playing game of the last generation coincidentally in Resident Evil 4, then you had better believe that the Wii is more than capable of producing a game that looks and plays twice as good as that game. By example that could be a free roaming third person action game that looks as good as the god darned gorgeous RE: Darkside Chronicles. The Wii deserves much more credit than people give it credit for.

And remember I'm a fan and owner of all the on rails shooters so far.

The Wii is the only console that can support the rail-shooter genre. So no, it should not come to a stop.

If you don't like rail shooters, maybe you should try FPSs like Metroid Prime Trilogy or The Conduit. Or if you hate point-and-shoot controls, try relearning how to fire a gun on PS3/XBox360 using dual analog sticks on their lame excuses for FPSs.

Dead Space Extraction's problem isn't that it's on rails. It's problem is that it's a freakin' movie, not a game.

DSE? Nah - DSE's good. If you want to talk about a game being noninteractive, MGS4 is your target.

DSE? Nah - DSE's good. If you want to talk about a game being noninteractive, MGS4 is your target.

roxlimn

Are you serious? Because of a few long cutscenes, one of the best games this generation is noninteractive compared to a AA ON-RAILS game? Forgive me, I have to go outside and laugh my *** off so I dont disturb people trying to study.

Sure. On-rails games are the best games ever. DSE is the best game to come around this generation. Every other genre of game pales before on-rails shooting.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="TaMuK711"]

Prove me wrong. The technology is there to provide a good atmosphere for the game, EA just decided against it and took the easy way out.

No it's not

A Wii version of these rail shooter done in the "traditional" sense would have worse graphics, AI, sounds, and physics.

I don't know why you think the Wii is powerful enough to do these things.

Games like silent hill say otherwise, stellar lighting and shadow effects. Of course its not going to be 360/ps3 level.. but the on-rails games arent 360/ps3 level either, so why give a lesser graphical experience with less gameplay?

The games are out there displaying what the wii can do with textures and lighting, so yes, they can make a real dead space happen, they are just too lazy to.

They make rail shooters because the Wii is perfect for this kind of game and many enjoy them, I do. They don't care about making TPS games like Resident Evil 4, because they already did that, in 2005, and we are close to 2010 now.

Developers want to expand their franchises. The Wii is not the console of choice for this kind of effort because it limits what the developer can do differently from the past. Resident Evil 5 may be worst than RE4, but they didn't do that on purpose, and there's no reason to believe a Resident Evil "2009" Wii exclusive would be any better.

Check the other systems lineup and pick one with said new TPSs, there's no crime going multiplatform if you enjoy games.

Who wants to play Dead Space Extraction and RE: Dark Side Chronicles being moved automaticly!?

insect13

Lots of people...

I agree there are too many rail shooters, but it isnt like they are bad. At least they are good.

[QUOTE="TaMuK711"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

No it's not, not at all

Jaysonguy

Prove me wrong. The technology is there to provide a good atmosphere for the game, EA just decided against it and took the easy way out.

No it's not

A Wii version of these rail shooter done in the "traditional" sense would have worse graphics, AI, sounds, and physics.

I don't know why you think the Wii is powerful enough to do these things.

Jayson i generally love your posts, but im gonna have to disagree with you on this one. the wii is not as weak as everyone thinks. trust me ive programmed for the lovly white box if you know what i mean & in order for me to do that i had to do a lot of reasearch on the dang thing. Now im not saying its an uber powerful console or anything, but it is about 35% stronger than the xbox one. trust me do a little research on the hardware & youll learn a thing or two. BTW forget wikipedia you have to check other sites dedicated to the wii *cough* *cough*.

i'm with ya on that! no more training wheels people! we want to walk in our games! lol

Developers are NOT converting previous TPS and FPS developments on the Wii into rail shooters. NOT. As in, these projects were rail shooters to begin with.

The problem is NOT that rail shooters are being made. The problem is that developers don't want to develop high budget third person and first person shooters for the Wii. Asking them to stop making rail shooters won't magically allocate those resources into first person or third person shooters. Don't live in a fantasy world. Don't be stupid.

There is no reason for rail shooter games to stop. Many people like them and they are profitable. Arguably, the Wii is the best platform for this genre of game, and IMO, there isn't nearly the same choice of good rail shooting as we had before. There needs to be MORE, not less.

What aficionados of third person shooters need to focus on is asking the devs to make good games for them, not stop making good games for other people.

It's pretty simple: buy the games you like, don't buy the games you don't like.

I'm against these, "they should quit making such-and-such type of game" rants , because they go against free-market principles.

Games like DS:E are pointless. I mean, they go 9 minutes withour any action? You've got to be kidding me -- that won't cut it even for a party game (which is the only thing rail shooters are good for). It's no wonder DS:E isn't selling well. The Wii is set up perfectly for real FPss and TPSs. it would be nice to see a developer take advantage of the Wii's strength.

It's pretty simple: buy the games you like, don't buy the games you don't like.

I'm against these, "they should quit making such-and-such type of game" rants , because they go against free-market principles.

aransom

They make rail shooters because the Wii is perfect for this kind of game and many enjoy them, I do. They don't care about making TPS games like Resident Evil 4, because they already did that, in 2005, and we are close to 2010 now.

Developers want to expand their franchises. The Wii is not the console of choice for this kind of effort because it limits what the developer can do differently from the past. Resident Evil 5 may be worst than RE4, but they didn't do that on purpose, and there's no reason to believe a Resident Evil "2009" Wii exclusive would be any better.

Check the other systems lineup and pick one with said new TPSs, there's no crime going multiplatform if you enjoy games.

Tamborific

I've had great times with all of the arcade shooters on the Wii so far, and have started Dead Space: Extraction yesterday. Its awesome. Arcade shooters are great fun and their renaissance on the Wii is a blessing.

Maybe those who complain should get some HotD hand cannons, calibrate for 1:1 aiming, turn the crosshair off and have a good time.

Personally I don't mind on-rail shooters on the Wii. Gives me a reason to play my Wii in the first place in between Nintendo first party releases. I can't get the same shooting experience on another console.

I can't wait for Darkside Chronicles :D

I don't think they should stop because some people like them. I don't find them very appealing though.

On-rails on Wii need to come to a stop! It's getting out of hand!:evil: Who wants to play Dead Space Extraction and RE: Dark Side Chronicles being moved automaticly!? Not me! These games that are on-rails could be so much more without rails! WHY CANT WE MOVE ON ARE OWN?!?!?!?!?!?

insect13

I'm agree, but so far the results have been good, then again, i wouldn't buy more than 2 on rail shooters, i'm planning to buy both RE, but that's all.

ON RAILS GAMES ARE AN INFERIOR GENRE!!! Just look at the poor sales of Dead Space and House of the Dead if you want proof!!. Plus I'd much rather play the real thing than a cop-out...... anyone with a brain would too.umcommon

awww someone's a sad panda. Would you like some bambo with your poor argument, sir?

ON RAILS GAMES ARE AN INFERIOR GENRE!!! Just look at the poor sales of Dead Space and House of the Dead if you want proof!!. Plus I'd much rather play the real thing than a cop-out...... anyone with a brain would too.umcommon

I don't like rail shooters any more than the TC, but to call for a genre of game to cease being produced just because he doesn't like it doesn't make any sense.

Do what I do. Don't buy them and don't play them. Just ignore the rail shooters. The fact is that some people like them. I'm not going to try to rain on their parade.

On a similiar note, I don't like the Final Fantasy games. Do I mind that people buy them? Not at all. If a developer makes money selling a game that I do not like, then more power to them. It doesn't affect me in the slightest way, because I simply choose to ignore it.

Now if one of my friends comes over and hooks up his PS1 to my TV to play FF, then we have a problem, because he needs to keep that stuff at his house.

[QUOTE="umcommon"]ON RAILS GAMES ARE AN INFERIOR GENRE!!! Just look at the poor sales of Dead Space and House of the Dead if you want proof!!. Plus I'd much rather play the real thing than a cop-out...... anyone with a brain would too.intro94

I'll even go as far as to say that rail shooters are killing the shooter genre on Wii.umcommon

Not really. They aren't the same genre.

One of the reasons I bought a Wii was for HOTD:OK. I have a PC for FPS'

Having said that spent 2 hours with MP and 2 hours with DSE today.

[QUOTE="intro94"][QUOTE="umcommon"]ON RAILS GAMES ARE AN INFERIOR GENRE!!! Just look at the poor sales of Dead Space and House of the Dead if you want proof!!. Plus I'd much rather play the real thing than a cop-out...... anyone with a brain would too.umcommon

PS:btw i can name it. UC sold 1.3 million over 7 months ago. It was very easy really.

[QUOTE="aransom"]

It's pretty simple: buy the games you like, don't buy the games you don't like.

I'm against these, "they should quit making such-and-such type of game" rants , because they go against free-market principles.

intro94

Ok lets examine that for a second, companies continue to make games that people don't want to play, people just don't buy them like you two say. Obviously if people aren't buying the games, publishers aren't going to be too keen about making more, then you end up with no support. OR Publishers bring games that we want to play like a full on Dead Space or Resident Evil game, people buy it, publishers make money and everyone goes home happy. Now which do you think would be the better option? Unfortunately with things like Extraction and Umbrella Chronicles publishers are trying to get that second half of option two without doing the first part because it cost more.

And I really wish people would stop with the "The Wii is perfect for rail shooters" nonsense, duh, the Wii is perfect for ANY shooter. IR aiming is no better in rail shooters than it is in TPS or FPS.

And I really wish people would stop with the "The Wii is perfect for rail shooters" nonsense, duh, the Wii is perfect for ANY shooter. IR aiming is no better in rail shooters than it is in TPS or FPS.Sepewrath

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]And I really wish people would stop with the "The Wii is perfect for rail shooters" nonsense, duh, the Wii is perfect for ANY shooter. IR aiming is no better in rail shooters than it is in TPS or FPS.JordanElek

...except that on-rails shooters have existed on systems prior to the Wii, and if developers wanted to see it on systems other than the Wii nowadays, there's little stopping them. I understand that the IR functionality of the Wii Remote makes it easier on developers for this type of game, since they don't have to worry about creating their own controllers and such. On the other hand, it's no greater experience than what a well-made FPS or TPS on the system would be. Those who say that "rail shooters are perfect for Wii" are suggesting that it's the only thing the system is capable of, which is totally false. The only thing is that it's easier for developers since they can simply make a rail-shooter game and use the Wii Remote, but as a result, they're stripping Wii owners of the exploration and scale that most FPS and TPS provide and they know that.

As Sepewrath said, it's all about making lesser games that a lot of people don't want to play but wanting to see great sales. It doesn't work that way.

If it really doesn't work that way, then it doesn't and publishers will be encouraged to make "better" games due to the poor sales. Or they can just stop altogether. That's not a problem with the Wii or on-rail shooters - it's a problem with the publisher. They don't want to put good budgeted games on the Wii and are looking for excuses to do so. It's a lose-lose situation for the so-called "hardcore." If they buy the rail shooters, companies make more, and if they don't, companies don't make anything.

It's a problem with the US developers. For some reason, they have this strong aversion to doing anything worthwhile on the Wii. For the immediate future, at least, look to get Wii games from non-American companies. They tend to put more money into their efforts. Monster Hunter Tri looks pretty good. So does Sin and Punishment 2 (also a rail shooter).

I love rail shooters..too many of them??..where?

..there's

RE:UC,

HOTD 2&3,

HOTD:Overkill,

Dead Space: Extraction,

Ghost Squad,

upcoming RE: DC ...

When 3rd party devs chooses not make tps for Wii there's not much you can do abt it or they could just not make any games for the Wii? ...Nintendo themselves can't do much either can they?..or does it come down to pride because Nintendo isn't going to beg for a game?

Ppl who says rail shooters sux what are the alternatives, you can provide or do, when devs simply won't make a tps game? not buying the game? if not buying the game, all they will do is drop support for Wii ..then you will have no games. Then you'd be crying foul again :P

With 2 other consoles & PC around, Wii might be the biggest sellers but its not really the most popular platform to develop for isit?

So far the rail shooter games for Wii has been good & not slacked efforts either.

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]And I really wish people would stop with the "The Wii is perfect for rail shooters" nonsense, duh, the Wii is perfect for ANY shooter. IR aiming is no better in rail shooters than it is in TPS or FPS.Madmangamer364

Those who say that "rail shooters are perfect for Wii" are suggesting that it's the only thing the system is capable of, which is totally false.

That's not at all what I've been suggesting (though I can't speak for others). I think a few developers have seen the rail shooter genre as a stagnant genre that they have the liberty of invigorating on the Wii. Both Capcom and EA (and Sega, somewhat) have created new takes on the genre and, in my opinion, AWESOME new takes on the genre.

Of course the Wii is capable of other genres, but the pointer just BEGS to be used in a light-gun way. It's the first time that the arcade experience of light-gun games can be closely replicated on a home console, which is why we saw a lot of simple arcade ports at first. Now we're seeing developers take on the genre in a new way. It's not just an easy, lazy way out of making a "real" game. There's an obvious place for this genre on the Wii.

If rail shooters sell poorly across the board, then we won't see them any more. It'll be seen as a waste of time to pursue the genre. But obviously some devs saw an opening to expand the genre into something that can be successful, and they've taken it. Now we'll see how well it stands up. Give the new games some time, at least through the holiday season, then we can judge.

That's not at all what I've been suggesting (though I can't speak for others). I think a few developers have seen the rail shooter genre as a stagnant genre that they have the liberty of invigorating on the Wii. Both Capcom and EA (and Sega, somewhat) have created new takes on the genre and, in my opinion, AWESOME new takes on the genre.

Of course the Wii is capable of other genres, but the pointer just BEGS to be used in a light-gun way. It's the first time that the arcade experience of light-gun games can be closely replicated on a home console, which is why we saw a lot of simple arcade ports at first. Now we're seeing developers take on the genre in a new way. It's not just an easy, lazy way out of making a "real" game. There's an obvious place for this genre on the Wii.

If rail shooters sell poorly across the board, then we won't see them any more. It'll be seen as a waste of time to pursue the genre. But obviously some devs saw an opening to expand the genre into something that can be successful, and they've taken it. Now we'll see how well it stands up. Give the new games some time, at least through the holiday season, then we can judge.

JordanElek

I hear ya. I just wish I could believe in your reasoning as to why developers have persued the rail-shooter genre so strongly. It would be much easier to understand if developers were doing this with new or more versatile franchises, but I just can't help but get a sense of laziness from them when I see games like Resident Evil and Dead Space, two franchises that have recently become well established as third person shooters on other systems (and in RE's case, even on the Wii) turn into rail shooters. The pointer screams a lot of other genres that haven't been tapped into even as much as rail shooters, and I don't see an outbreak of any of them right now, and that include the genre these games have made themselves homes in. Maybe they geninuely wanted to take this route, but the fact that most developers and publishers haven't done the Wii justice for most of the gen doesn't make them look good, nor does the fact that developers continue to insist on seeing the Wii and it userbase as something of a rat for 'experiments' and 'tests', which is what these games have also been considered.

The saddest part about it all for me is that I would be going nuts for RE: DC if it was an RE4-like experience. Instead, it has been in my opinion reduced to something that I want to have interest in but simply can't. If these games don't sell, I get the feeling that the Wii will be seeing a lot less than more rail-shooters, which is pretty sad when publishers haven't even taken the time to actually look at what the Wii owners desire. It's been my biggest gripe on this system the majority of this gen, especially this year, as everyone seems to want to play the whole 'hardcore' card and not really see the writing on the wall. I'm all for giving a stagnant genre a refreshing new take, but this has felt much more like a cheap way of finding a fanbase on the Wii without putting a top developer into a 2 year development cycle that could make an amazing title. In a way, I actually see this on-rails craze as little different than the mini-game craze the Wii had to deal with prior to this. The only difference now is that I think you have major publishers and developers killing the potential of great games, and that's a problem.

I think a few developers have seen the rail shooter genre as a stagnant genre that they have the liberty of invigorating on the Wii. JordanElek

I think I just threw up a bit. Devs are making rail shooters for Wii because they are too cheap and too stubborn to give Wii owners the real thing, not because they see some incredible opportunity.umcommon

Tell that to the people making the games. Listen to their interviews, watch them talk about their projects. Accusing them of cheapness and stubbornness makes NO sense.

I hear ya. I just wish I could believe in your reasoning as to why developers have persued the rail-shooter genre so strongly. It would be much easier to understand if developers were doing this with new or more versatile franchises, but I just can't help but get a sense of laziness from them when I see games like Resident Evil and Dead Space, two franchises that have recently become well established as third person shooters on other systems (and in RE's case, even on the Wii) turn into rail shooters. ... developers continue to insist on seeing the Wii and it userbase as something of a rat for 'experiments' and 'tests', which is what these games have also been considered.

The saddest part about it all for me is that I would be going nuts for RE: DC if it was an RE4-like experience. ...Madmangamer364

The RE Chronicles games wouldn't make sense as third-person shooters. The reason they work as "chronicles" games is because they take all the puzzles out and quickly move through the familiar areas of the previous games in order to tell the overall story from a different angle. Trying to make that work in an RE4-like experience would be next to impossible. The game would have to be ridiculously long, since each area would have to be fleshed out with things to DO, like solve puzzles and and find your way around. If they just made it all action and all linear, it might as well be a rail shooter anyway. Changing the genre makes sense from a practical perspective.

And yeah, developers do see the Wii as a console to experiment on. At least one developer (don't remember who, and I don't have time to look right now) has articulated this specifically, saying that since the Wii reaches such a new, broad audience, the spectrum of games has to do the same. If they want to reach the traditional gaming audience, they go to the other consoles, not only because that's where most of the traditional base is, but also because the hardware allows for more creativity in most cases. But obviously they also want to reach the giant Wii audience, or at least a significant portion of it, so they're trying different things.

I think the success of Umbrella Chronicles is to blame for Extraction and obviously Darkside Chronicles. It really is an awesome game, and the sales reflect that (so do RE4's sales, I understand). But both devs are using the rail shooter genre to do something different with their franchises - they're both using it to enhance their ability to tell the stories.

[QUOTE="intro94"][QUOTE="aransom"]

It's pretty simple: buy the games you like, don't buy the games you don't like.

I'm against these, "they should quit making such-and-such type of game" rants , because they go against free-market principles.

Sepewrath

Ok lets examine that for a second, companies continue to make games that people don't want to play, people just don't buy them like you two say. Obviously if people aren't buying the games, publishers aren't going to be too keen about making more, then you end up with no support. OR Publishers bring games that we want to play like a full on Dead Space or Resident Evil game, people buy it, publishers make money and everyone goes home happy. Now which do you think would be the better option? Unfortunately with things like Extraction and Umbrella Chronicles publishers are trying to get that second half of option two without doing the first part because it cost more.

And I really wish people would stop with the "The Wii is perfect for rail shooters" nonsense, duh, the Wii is perfect for ANY shooter. IR aiming is no better in rail shooters than it is in TPS or FPS.