What do you want to see in LoZ Wii?

"After Ganon was defeated it turned out his taint was infused upon the triforce, thus Link sets out to find the lore and items to purge the triforce... Sure enough when you purge it Ganon's essence comes back and you can kill him." - You keep all the same characters, but at least you get a different plot.

Or: "The gods created more than Hyrule and now one of their worlds has fallen to darkness. Good has been wiped completely from it's face thus the Gods have came back to hyrule in search of the Legendary Hero Link and prophetess Zelda...." - this at least gives you a method of keeping the characters but giving them a valid reason to find new races, challenges, environments and even provides a method for the God's themselves to become characters.

I guess it is "The Legend of Zelda" and legends only keep getting retold with maybe some twists based on the story teller. I would rather see it become a series though...

As for quests, please keep side quests to a minimum, but increase secrets. Side quests are like the hero saying: "yeah I could get to saving the world, but instead let me fish until I get the big one! Then haul it back to the village I just left 2 hours ago and give it to the old grandma in hopes she gives me something for my quest..." where as secrets are where the hero finds things along the way and just happens to put them to good use as they travel toward the climax. The difference IMO is huge. Less side quests, more main plot driven secrets please.

Of course with this being a LoZ Wii game, make sure the remote can be intricately involved in the puzzles and gameplay.

I'm all for something other than 'Link you're the chosen one', Zelda the damsel, and Ganon (or 'Ganondork' because Ganon was just too NES) the bad guy. Am I the only one that liked the fact Zelda II continued a/the story? I'm not saying go back to *that* story line, but really, is Hyrule always destined for the same thing or can Nintendo do something different? And different doesn't count when it is nothing more than different tricks to move along the same story line. Change the real plot. For example:

"After Ganon was defeated it turned out his taint was infused upon the triforce, thus Link sets out to find the lore and items to purge the triforce... Sure enough when you purge it Ganon's essence comes back and you can kill him." - You keep all the same characters, but at least you get a different plot.

Or: "The gods created more than Hyrule and now one of their worlds has fallen to darkness. Good has been wiped completely from it's face thus the Gods have came back to hyrule in search of the Legendary Hero Link and prophetess Zelda...." - this at least gives you a method of keeping the characters but giving them a valid reason to find new races, challenges, environments and even provides a method for the God's themselves to become characters.

I guess it is "The Legend of Zelda" and legends only keep getting retold with maybe some twists based on the story teller. I would rather see it become a series though...

As for quests, please keep side quests to a minimum, but increase secrets. Side quests are like the hero saying: "yeah I could get to saving the world, but instead let me fish until I get the big one! Then haul it back to the village I just left 2 hours ago and give it to the old grandma in hopes she gives me something for my quest..." where as secrets are where the hero finds things along the way and just happens to put them to good use as they travel toward the climax. The difference IMO is huge. Less side quests, more main plot driven secrets please.

Of course with this being a LoZ Wii game, make sure the remote can be intricately involved in the puzzles and gameplay.

raahsnavj

I know what your saying and they need a new conflict instead of Ganondorf taking over and Link teaming up with Zelda to save the day. But what you are saying is still too close to the same deal that they always do.

I mentioned it earlier, it involves a bad guy, maybe like the God of Chaos who is mad at the three goddesses who made hyrule. He causes chaos by seperating all the good races of Hyrule and unites all the evil ones. The dungeons would function as a way to get the other races like the Zoras to help fight with the Hyleans. The King of hrule is overwhelmed by this god's army which is slowly taking over town by town. Link actually helps fight in the wars. I mean real time battles where one army lines up on one side and the other on the other side of the field. Then they charge. Link will usually be surrounded by smarm of enemies. Of course the battles will get more sophisticated and will take place in towers and suck and castles. Also they get harder as each side gets different types of troops.

See the traditonal Zelda playing is still there but there is also a new side to it.

Read the boldedsentence of yours.THATS WHAT UNSUCCEsSFUL MEANS!!!!! It was successful (being that you dont know what that means-good sales and reviews) and Ill repeat it again because you addressed it like a 5 year they are making a sequal to the game so it has to of done good. It does not matter if it is on a console or handheld.

sonic_rusher

So you started an argument with me about how Zelda still might be cell-shaded on console, and then you say it doesn't matter whether it's on console or handheld? Wow, that's really smart. :|

Also this handheld is more successful than its console counterparts.

sonic_rusher

Irrelevant.

Still did not address me but give me proof of where they said this game did bad in SALES meaning money. Even if yo can prove it, it basically means nothing because it still sold better than most games because it is one of the best selling games of all time. So what else is there for you to say. Let me hear you actually say something new???? Cause everything else seems to not make sense.

sonic_rusher

Check IGN or something for your proof. I can't remember his exact words, but it was something like "WW sold too poorly in Japan, and not as well as we had hoped elsewhere. If TP had not sold well, then it could've been the last Zelda." Well, TP sold well, so Phantom Hourglass is now on its way. PH is selling VERY well in Japan, so Zelda will obviously be around for a long time. I never said that it was unsuccessful (even though you keep putting words in my mouth), but Nintendo thought so.

[QUOTE="sonic_rusher"]

Read the boldedsentence of yours.THATS WHAT UNSUCCEsSFUL MEANS!!!!! It was successful (being that you dont know what that means-good sales and reviews) and Ill repeat it again because you addressed it like a 5 year they are making a sequal to the game so it has to of done good. It does not matter if it is on a console or handheld.

GamerForca

So you started an argument with me about how Zelda still might be cell-shaded on console, and then you say it doesn't matter whether it's on console or handheld? Wow, that's really smart. :|

Also this handheld is more successful than its console counterparts.

sonic_rusher

Irrelevant.

Still did not address me but give me proof of where they said this game did bad in SALES meaning money. Even if yo can prove it, it basically means nothing because it still sold better than most games because it is one of the best selling games of all time. So what else is there for you to say. Let me hear you actually say something new???? Cause everything else seems to not make sense.

sonic_rusher

Check IGN or something for your proof. I can't remember his exact words, but it was something like "WW sold too poorly in Japan, and not as well as we had hoped elsewhere. If TP had not sold well, then it could've been the last Zelda." Well, TP sold well, so Phantom Hourglass is now on its way. PH is selling VERY well in Japan, so Zelda will obviously be around for a long time. I never said that it was unsuccessful (even though you keep putting words in my mouth), but Nintendo thought so.

I argued that they would neever make another cel shaded zelda game on the console, i know that. I said before that cell shaded zelda was cool but it was only cool as a one time thing on the console. The arguement is about how well WW sold and the 13th best selling game of all time means it sold well. How can you even argue that.

also if you cant back up your words dont say them if you dont want to prove it. Also there is a difference between selling well and Nintendo's expectations. Obviously the series has declined a little but it is still more successfull than most games.

Here's a LINK. So I'm full of BS now, eh? :lol:

Right off the top: "Nintendo manager of software development says Wind Waker nearly killed the franchise"

Here's a LINK. So I'm full of BS now, eh? :lol:

Right off the top: "Nintendo manager of software development says Wind Waker nearly killed the franchise"

GamerForca

Finally you did it but anyway like a said before it still does not mean Wind Waker did bad. There is no way to even justify what you are saying when it is the 13th best selling game of all time. Besides thats BS there is no way in hell they would even drop a franchise that actually rivals with mario franchise. Sorry, we can all read what it says but anyone who knows nintendo in the slightest knows that they would not drop the series. On top of that it said it did bad in Japan, it also sold 2.3 million in North america. Selling bad in japan does not mean it sold bad. So we are right back where we were before, you not making a point. :) good luck.

That's comical. I give you a link from GS in which Nintendo says WW nearly killed the franchise, and you shrug it off as a lie. You know Metroid was dead for about 9 years, right?

But whatever, I've proven my point; there will never be another cell-shaded Zelda on a console.

Finally you did it but anyway like a said before it still does not mean Wind Waker did bad. There is no way to even justify what you are saying when it is the 13th best selling game of all time. Besides thats BS there is no way in hell they would even drop a franchise that actually rivals with mario franchise. Sorry, we can all read what it says but anyone who knows nintendo in the slightest knows that they would not drop the series. On top of that it said it did bad in Japan, it also sold 2.3 million in North america. Selling bad in japan does not mean it sold bad. So we are right back where we were before, you not making a point. :) good luck.

GamerForca

Wind Waker did bad in Japan. It didn't even pass the million mark. I don't think it means it's the end of Zelda, but we'll probably see less of it in the coming years.

That's comical. I give you a link from GS in which Nintendo says WW nearly killed the franchise, and you shrug it off as a lie. You know Metroid was dead for about 9 years, right?

But whatever, I've proven my point; there will never be another cell-shaded Zelda on a console.

GamerForca

Well im kinda late but i couldnt help but reply to such a stupid comment. I dont care what the article says, just because it did bad in Japan does not mean it did bad overall AKA 13th best selling game of all time. i also said before that even if you could prove your last desperate attempt at this arguement that it would not matter because it sold great. selling bad in Japan does not mean selling bad in the world.

YOU HAVE NOT PREVEN YOUR POINT. They wont do another cell shaded Zelda because the fans did not like it. They are however making a sequal to this game that is SOOOO unsuccessful *sarcasm* on a system where it is risky they are making it portable.

No metroid was not dead for nine years and dead is the wrong word anyway. Did it ever occur to you that portable games are games too? They made alot of games on all types of portables.

So again you have not proven your point. Also I never said that there was going to be another Cel shaded console zelda game. So your just royally confused.

[QUOTE="GamerForca"]

Finally you did it but anyway like a said before it still does not mean Wind Waker did bad. There is no way to even justify what you are saying when it is the 13th best selling game of all time. Besides thats BS there is no way in hell they would even drop a franchise that actually rivals with mario franchise. Sorry, we can all read what it says but anyone who knows nintendo in the slightest knows that they would not drop the series. On top of that it said it did bad in Japan, it also sold 2.3 million in North america. Selling bad in japan does not mean it sold bad. So we are right back where we were before, you not making a point. :) good luck.

AuthenticM

Wind Waker did bad in Japan. It didn't even pass the million mark. I don't think it means it's the end of Zelda, but we'll probably see less of it in the coming years.

Well maybe but that does not mean im wrong. he is still dead wrong and one day that guy has to come to terms with that.

I would love a for a continuation of the MM style. There does not have to be time travle persay, but more of an emphasis on relations with NPCs and learning about the peoples and communities of the world, their nature, personalities and habits. A removal of the core of the game being focused on dungeon hopping by having more outdoor and cavern style exploration that feels more like I am still in the world and affecting the lives of those in it, not some unseen action that only affects my item screen and personal progress in the game.

Make more of the game occur in the world itself not in some far removed lair. I really enjoyed the Arbiter Grounds in TP because it had more of a purpose and real world standing than the other temples, Sky Temple as well felt a little like that as well. I would not be opposed to having 3 or so max "real" dungeons if they were quite massive and detailed in their design and place in the world.

In a way being a bit more Metroidian in depth and exploration, which in a way would go back to Zelda roots of being open ended and non linear. More than one item would be found in them and not all the areas could be explored in one visit. An intelligent design that though the whole of the dungeon has not been explored, progress has been made and the affects of your actions can be seen in some ways because again these dungeons would have more of a purpose and relation with the real world.

As well I would like the game to be more dynamic in nature, like MM was, evolving and changing with my achievements and actions. Even if it meant a more compact world, I would desire a place where my actions say in freeing a town were not left unchecked. Where the enemy retaliated to my actions and more relations and side quests opened up bringing more depth and richness to the world. All Zeldas have had levels of this, but very few have seemed truly genuine and meaningful to world and not just to my gaining access to a heart piece or rupee. I would really like to see some aggression from the "evil" threatening the world, a tug of war between me and them and not the domino affect that the previous games have generally been.

Most importantly I really want to have Items to have real depth to them, that includes swords and armours. Not some one time use thing that was only really useful in the dungeon it was found in. If that means less Items thats fine, as long I can use them in numerous situations combat or puzzle. This also plays into bosses. I love the old style, but I really would like them to get away from the ABC style of boss fights where you search for their weak spot, probably using the item you found in that dungeon, attack it to stun them and then hit them for real damage, do this three times and fights over.

Lastly the story. This goes hand in hand with my desire for a more dynamic world, with my actions having a greater impact on them and involvement in what goes in it and an enemy that really reacts and does not just lay down for me to defeat them, and also be like MM and portions of other Zelda titles where there is a sense of emergency and immanency of danger and a need for me to achieve my goals because if I do not do it quickly all will be lost.

Aside from those main points, the Zelda formula is one of my favorites and look forward to whatever they have in store for us.

Funny, has anyone mentioned better graphics so far? I loved WW and TP, but I know both of those are GC graphics still. They can start with TP, ad bump mapped ground and walls and enemies, and more specular highlights, and better shadows, and of course more HDR. Make lights look like they are glowing. Sword can have actual reflective shine on it. I have faith in Nintendo's ability to update the game to a better feel of zelda gameplay and story wise (an dif they left it the same i'd still be happy) but music and graphics should feel like a wii game not a GC rehash.Phazevariance

it definitely needs to shake up the formula. i think that nintendo knows that and kinda planned for TP to be the last typical zelda game. here are some things that i think that the new zelda should have:

• new villain( i would really like to see Vaati return, from Minish Cap and Four Sword)
• more dramatic( i liked that idea of having an Aeris-like killing of Zelda)
• break the dungeon formula( that REALLY needs some more variety and change)
• a lot more side quests and secrets ( have quests that actually rewards you with something new and useful, maybe a new costume, or magic, or armor, not just heart pieces)
• less cute, more dark( i really would like to see a fallen link from a previous zelda game, maybe TP zelda)
• going back to that costume idea, like in OOT and MM, have masks, hats,and other costume, just for variation( just a speculation!)

[QUOTE="Phazevariance"]Funny, has anyone mentioned better graphics so far? I loved WW and TP, but I know both of those are GC graphics still. They can start with TP, ad bump mapped ground and walls and enemies, and more specular highlights, and better shadows, and of course more HDR. Make lights look like they are glowing. Sword can have actual reflective shine on it. I have faith in Nintendo's ability to update the game to a better feel of zelda gameplay and story wise (an dif they left it the same i'd still be happy) but music and graphics should feel like a wii game not a GC rehash.enduin

Trust me. This game was beautiful on GC but on Wii it was okay. If they made a ground up LoZ Wii and put more emphasis into the graphics with porgramable shaders like SMG it would look really good. But most importantly they should work on the gameplay which needs revision and the story which needs a monkey wrench in it to stir things up.

Ok. These are the things that I truly miss.

1. Cel shaded graphics or at least something prettier than TP.
OK, TP was detailed, but why so ..unattractive? I respect artistic expression and I think many games lack that. However, in TP some of the characters are straight up ugly - not all. Also enemies look much like in OoT -ug-lee!! They still didn't get the spider webs right either. Some darker sections of the game also look terrible. I think Wind Waker nailed the graphics.

2. Truly open ended world wether on land or sea or sky even.
Just make me feel I'm there and not in some tube or sandbox. Zelda has always been about open ended stuff and not tubes. Those of you who are about to play the OoT-card on me should go back to NES- and SNES aswell as GBC-titles and see how things in Zelda are really done.

3. Less dungeon-oriented
Players love dungeons, but I find them way too difficult with all the puzzle solving. Like in TP Water Temple I never could have got it right without a guide. Still - difficulty really is not the main issue here. I think there still should be as many temples and palaces and stuff but gosh...it somehow just ruins the mood when you feel trapped in some dark place. I even hate the word dungeon...that's a prison and that's what it feels like too. Temples and such dont all have to be "dungeons". Some of them could be more of something you visit, get an item, get out and maybe come back later in the game - like some islands in WW. They do not have to be dark either. How about a really sunny dungeon with the meanest of enemies? Dungeon-oriented thinking just putting things in a box!!

4. More emphasis on side questing and roaming around, MORE VILLAGES
This is really a less dungeon oriented part 2. A true adventure should be out there, not in there. Nowadays Zelda games consist of going from dungeon to dungeon and ALL IN SPECIFIC ORDER. That's linearism! Bad, bad, bad...We should have been out of that titles ago.

5. Less japanese, less real world culture themed
I'm glad we don't see samurai in Zelda but we now have had INDIANS...that's right. There are indians in Twilight Princess. Now explain how that is possible. Even kakakiro music was indian-inspired. That ruined the mood.The japanism I complain about involves things like kiais (Link's kiais in particular), characters' grunts ("hooo", "yooo" in an oriental accent and tone of voice). If fantasy became reality, Hyrule would not likely sound Japanese. Also if you have to have mystisism like energies, gods and stuff, explain them to the western gamer. Don't expect them to be familiar with eastern theology and lore, for crying out loud! Also drop the Japanese sounding names!!! Kakakiro just doesn't feel right! Now you say that they can't drop Kakakiro, cos it's part of the legend and Hyrule has the same places through out its history. Well... you tell me why can't there still be villages and towns like Rauru, Darunia, Ruto and Saria. They are original Zelda town names that do not sound Japanese.

Don't get me wrong. I like Japanese culture and language. It's just that I think a fantasy world like Zelda shouldn't sound too much like it.

last but not least...

6....no gayness!!
It just ruins the mood when all of a sudden a gay like Tingle or a dancer or even a secret admirer of a photographer pops up. In windwaker they were tolerable, but playing TP I realized how unfitting the whole concept was when i bumped into gayish characters. I have nothing against people who are gays by the way. They don't put stress on their gayness when you meet em in the streets. Game characters shouldn't also.

However, they need to be carefull not to turn this into a side-quest mess. Nothing is worse than having to save the world, but have all the time in the world to help every NPC character with their garbage. Come on the hero should be important enough to not waste their time taking out the trash or being messenger boy. Take Morrowind / Oblivion for example: By the time I remembered what the main quest was it was so easy it wasn't even worth playing it... I got 'done' with the game going 'Is that it?' It helped that I had every upgrade imaginable, but really, either make the end boss worth getting the upgrades or leave them out. I hate finding fluff just because it's there. Give me a reason to find it. Another example: Finding all the Gold Skulltula's in OoT. After I got them all I had this amazing swelling of pride until I found out all I get is unlimited money... bah! I had too much money the whole game without having to lift the curse. What a waste...raahsnavj

This is a very good point. A lot of the larger quests in recent LoZ have featured are rather mundane and useless fetch quests that span the whole game and for basically nothing, same goes for many of the smaller quests as well. The Magic Armor in TP was completely worthless yet I spent hours collecting rupees to get it done. This is why I highlighted MM so much in my previous post because it by far had the most side-quests in a Zelda game yet they were, for myself at least, very rewarding. Gaining masks(as well as other items) and unearthing the stories behind them be they comical or dramatic was great, and not only that the masks themselves opened up new paths for me, which literally affected the world and people in it.

In my mind I would like to see the next Zelda to build upon that, where these side quests are not always critical to the completion of the game main game, but are supplementary for the most part and dont just give you some rather worthless item, or in most cases a purple or silver rupee, but actually enrich the experience and affect the world around you changing how people interact with you and even in some cases how you play the game.

In a way thinking about it now, I would like it to take from Fable the idea where your actions in the main quests and side quests shapes the world around you and how you are received by the NPCs of this world. I dont want the game to turn into Fable by any means, but like Molyneux has said, he wants the player to feel loved and in LoZ series this was achieved in MM as well as in OoT and LA a bit. The NPCs really seemed to appreciate and were thankful for the things I did.

And I would like for that to continue. Link, who is an extension of us the player, needs to be able to develop more in the game. To achieve a sense of purpose and place in the world aside from the worn out title of lone savior, wielder of the Triforce of Courage. I would like to see more customization of Link from straight appearance through assortment of equipable items, weapons and armors to these side quests that can gain us prestige and honor among those NPCs it affects that rewards us in a meaningful way. I want Link to step out of the shadows he normally is left in and come out into the world to be recognized.