Why didn't YOU buy Sin and Punishment?

[QUOTE="intro94"]It would be meaningless if the 20 guys who post in gamespot buy a game if nobody else did.JordanElek

[QUOTE="JordanElek"][QUOTE="intro94"]It would be meaningless if the 20 guys who post in gamespot buy a game if nobody else did.intro94

well i didnt see that way. it usually goes the other way in these kind of posts you know. But yeah, if you want my personal opinion(sorry its part of my career to study the market so its a sort of habit), im waiting for a price drop.For my tastes, im sure i will replay it, but i still can bring me to buy it just yet while in 2 or 3 months it will drop.Im not in a hurry for this game.intro94

I want to but I'm trying to buy less games. I'm failing big time though :cry:

Hardcore Sin and Punishment fans (like the OP) failed to petition to get it released in my country. The question isn't 'why haven't I bought it', the question is 'why haven't the fans helped us to get it'... so_hai

well mostly since i wanted mario galaxy 2, though this game is my next buy though

Hardcore Sin and Punishment fans (like the OP) failed to petition to get it released in my country. The question isn't 'why haven't I bought it', the question is 'why haven't the fans helped us to get it'... so_hai

The subject header of this thread seems like a loaded question.

I bought it after reading a bit on the development and seeing some gameplay. This game reminds me a lot of Einhander, which is why I picked it up a few days after reading about it. I think I got it a few days after it was released.

Personally, I don't see the point of owning a game (or anything for that matter), or even having something around that was given to me unless I'm going to get use out of it while it is in my home.

My girlfriend and I have recently given away an unused NES and Super NES in their boxes, because we didn't have the balls to untie the controllers and use them. They were collecting dust with my unused Lazer Tag game kits in their boxes, which also were given to the same recipient who got the NES and SNES. I have several Playmates TMNT figures that are carded that are in a box at my moms house that need to go. Lots and lots of cool junk that I need to purge, I don't have the space in my house that is being occupied by Transformers, old skateboards, artwork and the NES that gets used with way too many games that I have nowhere to put.

So, I can totally understand why someone who has too much junk relinquishes any opportunity for buying more. I went to a couple of Game Stop stores today, looking for some games to take advantage of their used sale and I reluctantly put two games back on the shelf (Monster Hunter 3 and WarioWare Smooth Moves). I left the store empty handed because I couldn't find a third title for the buy 2 get 1 deal that was anywhere near the price of the other two, that I wanted.

I think a better question to ask some folks here would be; If you aren't one to replay a game, why not save the money, time and space and rent? (subscription online or locally)

For the majority of people whining about core games, Sin and Punishment 2 is TOO "hardcore." Honestly, I didn't buy it nor will I buy it in the foreseeable future because of one reason: difficulty. I don't play games for the challenge and this series and this developer are known for making brutally hard games. You compare this to Starfox, I love Starfox, Starfox never kicked my ass with a titanium boot.

Okay, here are a few more ways to think about the length if you don't care at all about high scores:

If you play through the game once with each character mode (Kachi, Isa, and Kachi + Isa) on only one difficulty setting, you'll get about 16-20 hours, depending on the difficulty. Each character has a different charge shot, so you have to approach the game in a different way. It's not like a totally different experience, but it does make you play differently.

If you play through the game with only one of the characters on each of the difficulty settings, you'll get about 22-26 hours. The bosses are affected the most by difficulty settings, as they'll have different "phases" and more health. The regular enemies also have a little bit more health, more of them appear, and some new ones appear as well.

If you play through each character mode on each difficulty setting, you'll get about 50-60 hours. And that's just as far as I know. There may be more modes that I don't know about.

And if you care about high scores, you could easily rack up 100 hours.

Calling this a five-hour game is like calling SMB3 an eleven-minute game. But I couldn't even guess how many dozens of hours I put into that game back in the day.

JordanElek

And what if you play through the game once with one character on one difficulty? :P

I don't have 40 bucks to waste on 20 hours of a game. I never buy new games, I refuse to pay 40 dollars for a CD with the game copied onto it. The massive prices were okay back in the cartridge days, when the games costed quite a bit to manufacture, so you had to pay a lot to get them. But making games nowadays costs a matter of cents. Unless it is a title like Brawl, or the new Metroid, I won't pay so much out of my pocket in these trying times for a game. I'll wait till the price goes WAY down or just buy it used.

Short on money. Sold some games. Did I try Persona 3 Portable - which'd apparently last me 100+ hours if I played through with both characters, or Sin & Punishment 2, a quality looking game that looked like a cross between an arcade shooter and a good Star Fox game, BUT, if it's anything like the original, I'd get stuck at a point where an enemy was hiding behind a load of pillars, keep running out of time and eventually lose interest. Yeah I'm not that hardcore, and I'm not massively into racking up high scores, so it'd just be a game I played every now and again when I felt like playing that sort of game, which is basically what I do with the original.

Persona interested me more, and it'd last me longer, so I went with that. I hated having to import it, as I wanted them to release it in Europe so I could support any effort to get more such games to be released over here, but whatever. I do intend to get S&P2 at some point, as it looks cool, one of the few "buy this or gaming dies!!!!" games that actually appeals to me, but I'm guessing it'll either cost a fortune on ebay by then, or it'll be in the bargain bins, so my support won't be worth much in either case. :P

Short on money. Sold some games. Did I try Persona 3 Portable - which'd apparently last me 100+ hours if I played through with both characters, or Sin & Punishment 2, a quality looking game that looked like a cross between an arcade shooter and a good Star Fox game, BUT, if it's anything like the original, I'd get stuck at a point where an enemy was hiding behind a load of pillars, keep running out of time and eventually lose interest. Yeah I'm not that hardcore, and I'm not massively into racking up high scores, so it'd just be a game I played every now and again when I felt like playing that sort of game, which is basically what I do with the original.

Persona interested me more, and it'd last me longer, so I went with that. I hated having to import it, as I wanted them to release it in Europe so I could support any effort to get more such games to be released over here, but whatever. I do intend to get S&P2 at some point, as it looks cool, one of the few "buy this or gaming dies!!!!" games that actually appeals to me, but I'm guessing it'll either cost a fortune on ebay by then, or it'll be in the bargain bins, so my support won't be worth much in either case. :P

midisurfmind

To your credit, Persona 3 is one of the best games of all time so I guess you can be forgived :P

For the majority of people whining about core games, Sin and Punishment 2 is TOO "hardcore." Honestly, I didn't buy it nor will I buy it in the foreseeable future because of one reason: difficulty. I don't play games for the challenge and this series and this developer are known for making brutally hard games. You compare this to Starfox, I love Starfox, Starfox never kicked my ass with a titanium boot.

Master_Hermes

For the majority of people whining about core games, Sin and Punishment 2 is TOO "hardcore." Honestly, I didn't buy it nor will I buy it in the foreseeable future because of one reason: difficulty. I don't play games for the challenge and this series and this developer are known for making brutally hard games. You compare this to Starfox, I love Starfox, Starfox never kicked my ass with a titanium boot.

Master_Hermes

Neither will S&P unless you start on Hard. When I said before that you'll get your ass handed to you on your first playthrough, I meant in terms of score. I only died two or three times on my first playthrough on Easy, and there's unlimited continues and plenty of checkpoints (unlike the first game), so you'll never feel defeated and want to give up.

If you love Star Fox for its gameplay, you'll love S&P. The main difference in terms of gameplay is that you don't spend much time dodging immovable objects like in SF. Everything you dodge in S&P is either an enemy or a projectile, so there isn't any precise flying through tunnels or anything like that. In terms of structure, the main difference is that there are 8 sequential levels in S&P, as opposed to the branching paths of Star Fox 64. Other than that, the two games are VERY similar.

And what if you play through the game once with one character on one difficulty? :PGabuEx

Then you'll either say "I'm glad I rented that instead of buying it" or "I'm going to play through it again RIGHT NOW because I KNOW that I can do better."

I think of it like a sports game. You don't buy Madden to play one game (or even one season). Either you like football and you buy it to play a ton of it, or you don't buy it at all. It's the same here. If you like the genre, then you're not just going to play through it once. You'll either play a ton of it, or you won't buy it in the first place.

I don't have 40 bucks to waste on 20 hours of a game. I never buy new games, I refuse to pay 40 dollars for a CD with the game copied onto it. The massive prices were okay back in the cartridge days, when the games costed quite a bit to manufacture, so you had to pay a lot to get them. But making games nowadays costs a matter of cents. Unless it is a title like Brawl, or the new Metroid, I won't pay so much out of my pocket in these trying times for a game. I'll wait till the price goes WAY down or just buy it used.

Shadowtails9000

I don't have 40 bucks to waste on 20 hours of a game. I never buy new games, I refuse to pay 40 dollars for a CD with the game copied onto it. The massive prices were okay back in the cartridge days, when the games costed quite a bit to manufacture, so you had to pay a lot to get them. But making games nowadays costs a matter of cents. Unless it is a title like Brawl, or the new Metroid, I won't pay so much out of my pocket in these trying times for a game. I'll wait till the price goes WAY down or just buy it used.

Shadowtails9000

But once the ACTUAL GAME is made, it's just a matter of copying CDs to sell. Movies cost MILLIONS to make, but you don't see people paying 50 bucks for DVDs do you? Same concept goes for games, since it's just CDs formatted for the consoles. Absolutely NO REASON as to why a game should cost 40-50 bucks when a BRAND NEW DVD rarely goes for more than 20 bucks. It's not fair to the consumers if they aren't producing expensive cartridges or a reason FOR the price to be so high.

But once the ACTUAL GAME is made, it's just a matter of copying CDs to sell. Movies cost MILLIONS to make, but you don't see people paying 50 bucks for DVDs do you? Same concept goes for games, since it's just CDs formatted for the consoles. Absolutely NO REASON as to why a game should cost 40-50 bucks when a BRAND NEW DVD rarely goes for more than 20 bucks. It's not fair to the consumers if they aren't producing expensive cartridges or a reason FOR the price to be so high.

Shadowtails9000

i did buy it. :-P

[QUOTE="Barbie_Boy"]

story seems very lacking and only got the mindless arcade shooting feeling which I personally dont care about.

sure I liked the first one but the price/time I want to play was alot better

JordanElek

shooters are anything but mindless. they require intense concentration and awareness.

I plan to sometime.That said i dont see a sizeable market for this game on the wii, and there was a distinct lack of promotion, ads and whatnot.The poor sales of S&P2 have lots of reasons.Arcadey shooters arent particularly hot ,specially with relatively unknown characters(railed or not)-RE had the re label going for it.If its sold here its going for 50 bucks.Competing against games with online modes to me is difficult.Replaying a game merely for higher scores isnt that attractive to me.And the core game isnt particularly long.So when you add all the factors, it makes sense.intro94

I downloaded the original on the VC and didn't enjoy at all, and from what I understand this isn't a significant improvement over the first one.meetroid8

[QUOTE="Shadowtails9000"]

But once the ACTUAL GAME is made, it's just a matter of copying CDs to sell. Movies cost MILLIONS to make, but you don't see people paying 50 bucks for DVDs do you? Same concept goes for games, since it's just CDs formatted for the consoles. Absolutely NO REASON as to why a game should cost 40-50 bucks when a BRAND NEW DVD rarely goes for more than 20 bucks. It's not fair to the consumers if they aren't producing expensive cartridges or a reason FOR the price to be so high.

soulreaper-4

I'm not a pirate. I don't believe in stealing. However, I will simply do without a game because the prices are ridiculous these days. Ask anyone, it's even worse since most new games, especially on the Wii, only last 10 to 20 hours. I'm not starting a fight, I'm sticking to my opinion that gaming companies, ESPECIALLY NINTENDO, which is bathing in cash at the moment, should be a bit more reasonable with prices.

BACKLOG. I just sold 11 games last night on eBay, 50% of them which I haven't completed. Even with those sold, I still have 6 games for the Wii that I need to complete, and a couple on Xbox 360. With a full college and work schedule, it's impossible for me to finish all those games. I also want to get Metroid Other M next month and Halo Reach, the following month. It's just too much. I think it's a waste of money to to have games sitting on the shelf collecting dust. This will probably cause me to not buy many games on day one unless they're highly anticipated like Other M and Halo Reach.Elian2530

Becuase it's a an on-rail shooter no matter how you decribe it. There is no free roaming, the level just keeps moving along whether you're ready or not.

Also, it's short game. It doesn't take very long to beat the game. I mean if you're into getting the highest score on an online leaderboard, then that's about as much replay value you get. But alot of people don't care about that.

A rail shooter that's short is only worth a rental (maybe)...but not a $50 purchase.

Tri-Enforcer

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]

Well it looks like the #1 reason is a lack of money, which makes me simultaneously happy and sad. That's better than "it looks boring," which was only the case for a couple of people, because that couldn't be further from the truth. If you know how the game works and know it's a quality game and it still doesn't interest you, then that's a perfectly fine reason for not getting it.

But to everyone on the fence and everyone who thinks it's not worth $50 and everyone who thinks it's too short, at least rent it. Either you'll get enough fun out of it in that time period or it'll suck you in with its enticing challenge of "I DARE you to master me."

And I never expected this game to sell a bazillion copies, but it just seems like the type of game that this forum in particular would be excited about yet isn't talking about at all. It's sad that the main reason is no money, but.... we can blame Nintendo for that. Sandwiching it between Galaxy 2 and Other M wasn't the best move. But there probably never would've been a perfect time to release it, so might as well have been now.

Madmangamer364

Well, I would say that money appears to be the prime reason for the game not being purchased, but it doesn't appear to be the clear-cut only reason, either. That said, Treasure's games always seem to have this kind of response; beloved by most of those who play the game, the developers' games never appear to have much mainstream appeal, regardless of how well-received they might be by those who play them. In a sense, it's kinda expected that Star Successor is now following suit.

Sure, being sandwhiched between Mario and Metroid (especially coming AFTER Mario) was definitely a no-no, even as Nintendo put delays in place to help give it a chance, but I doubt the game would have flew off store shelves if it was alone. Truth be told, I just don't think the game itself has that kind of outward appeal that could generate the buzz to become a runaway success. The fact that it's a sequel to a series that's still relatively unknown here in the states also doesn't help, but even in Japan, the game didn't perform too well. It's not one particular thing I can put my finger on, but it's just that 'feeling' where you're pretty much sure of something, and it was the 'feeling' of this game coming and going without much noise that has been pretty vivid for some time now.

personally i don't think metroid will sell very well either. it might sell 1 million, but i doubt it will attract the mainstream crowd. metroid prime 2 was the most returned game in my local game store. it's still a niche series even in japan. i'm suprised nintendo still lets those guys make metroid games. but along with S&P2 it's little presents for the 'hardcore'. :-P just_nonplussed

Hey, not once have I said that the Metroid series is one that appeals greatly to the mainstream, but even so, I still think it's leagues ahead of the S&P series in terms of popularity and will reflect that commercially. With Other M drifting away from the first person perspective to a more traditional-type Metroid experience and with Team Ninja practically replacing Retro Studios, I do think the game has a chance of doing better globally than the Prime series did. In any case, I'm not expect system-selling numbers for Other M, either, but its buzz makes S&P2 look really almost non-existent by comparison.

[QUOTE="soulreaper-4"][QUOTE="Shadowtails9000"]

But once the ACTUAL GAME is made, it's just a matter of copying CDs to sell. Movies cost MILLIONS to make, but you don't see people paying 50 bucks for DVDs do you? Same concept goes for games, since it's just CDs formatted for the consoles. Absolutely NO REASON as to why a game should cost 40-50 bucks when a BRAND NEW DVD rarely goes for more than 20 bucks. It's not fair to the consumers if they aren't producing expensive cartridges or a reason FOR the price to be so high.

Shadowtails9000

I'm not a pirate. I don't believe in stealing. However, I will simply do without a game because the prices are ridiculous these days. Ask anyone, it's even worse since most new games, especially on the Wii, only last 10 to 20 hours. I'm not starting a fight, I'm sticking to my opinion that gaming companies, ESPECIALLY NINTENDO, which is bathing in cash at the moment, should be a bit more reasonable with prices.

[QUOTE="soulreaper-4"][QUOTE="Shadowtails9000"]

But once the ACTUAL GAME is made, it's just a matter of copying CDs to sell. Movies cost MILLIONS to make, but you don't see people paying 50 bucks for DVDs do you? Same concept goes for games, since it's just CDs formatted for the consoles. Absolutely NO REASON as to why a game should cost 40-50 bucks when a BRAND NEW DVD rarely goes for more than 20 bucks. It's not fair to the consumers if they aren't producing expensive cartridges or a reason FOR the price to be so high.

Shadowtails9000

I'm not a pirate. I don't believe in stealing. However, I will simply do without a game because the prices are ridiculous these days. Ask anyone, it's even worse since most new games, especially on the Wii, only last 10 to 20 hours. I'm not starting a fight, I'm sticking to my opinion that gaming companies, ESPECIALLY NINTENDO, which is bathing in cash at the moment, should be a bit more reasonable with prices.

New games for the NES costed $42 dollars.

New games for the NES costed $42 dollars.

soulreaper-4

Keep in mind that that's $42 at the time, too. Taking inflation into account, and assuming that that magazine was from 1989 (I can't see a date on it, but Blades of Steel and Castlevania II were both released in North America in December 1988, so 1989 seems like a reasonable assumption), those new games would today cost between $68 and $77. Video games today are actually cheaper today than they were at that time.

Like most of the people here, it's because I don't have the money. If I did, I would have went out and bought weeks ago because I love these types of games. I've been trying to get off GameFly so that I can at least play it, but I haven't had any luck so far. At this point I'm tempted to start trading some games in to see if I can get enough cash to buy it.

I applaud this forum! It's purpose, composition and execution of its absolutely sound and excellent point. Kudos Jordan!

As for myself....bought it! Love it. Beaten it. Playing it over and over to attempt to get high scores and dream of taking this "Max" character down!

.....but we all know that's never going to happen :P

Love it.

Darth-Samus

Doesn't that kind of go without saying? :P

[QUOTE="Darth-Samus"]

Love it.

GabuEx

Doesn't that kind of go without saying? :P

Absolutely!

Should have been called Sin & Punishment: Love it a Lot.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Darth-Samus"]

Love it.

Darth-Samus

Doesn't that kind of go without saying? :P

Absolutely!

Should have been called Sin & Punishment: Love it a Lot.

I'm referring to the fact that you specifically love it. ;)

[QUOTE="Darth-Samus"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Doesn't that kind of go without saying? :P

GabuEx

Absolutely!

Should have been called Sin & Punishment: Love it a Lot.

I'm referring to the fact that you specifically love it. ;)

Haha. Well.....yeah. I'll allow it :D

[QUOTE="Shadowtails9000"]

[QUOTE="soulreaper-4"] Movies cost MILLIONS BUT THEY SOLD THE TICKETS TO SEE THEM FOR $25 DOLLARS ALMOST EVERYWHERE. Then after that they sell the store version for $20 on DVD and $30 on Blue Ray. Not that i'm being rude but you sound LIKE ONE OF THOSE PIRATES WHO SOLVE EVERYTHING WITH PIRACY and think that games are created by a copy paste process. If you don't want to pay $50 for games you want then wait some time for a price drop. It isn't unfair to sell games at the price they want to because they aren't food or a necessity.soulreaper-4

I'm not a pirate. I don't believe in stealing. However, I will simply do without a game because the prices are ridiculous these days. Ask anyone, it's even worse since most new games, especially on the Wii, only last 10 to 20 hours. I'm not starting a fight, I'm sticking to my opinion that gaming companies, ESPECIALLY NINTENDO, which is bathing in cash at the moment, should be a bit more reasonable with prices.

New games for the NES costed $42 dollars.

The NES factor was the whole point of my arguement earlier. I said I understood back when games HAD to be expensive because cartridges took a lot of resources to make, and were sold for high amounts to make up for that. However, now that games are released on CDs, one of the cheapest ways to sell a game, it is ridiculous to still keep the prices past 30 bucks for one game. The only company that seems fair with game prices is Steam, without the CDs and whatnot, just selling the actual game for a decent price.

The NES factor was the whole point of my arguement earlier. I said I understood back when games HAD to be expensive because cartridges took a lot of resources to make, and were sold for high amounts to make up for that. However, now that games are released on CDs, one of the cheapest ways to sell a game, it is ridiculous to still keep the prices past 30 bucks for one game. The only company that seems fair with game prices is Steam, without the CDs and whatnot, just selling the actual game for a decent price.

Shadowtails9000

In 2010 dollars, NES games in the 1980s cost $70+, and you're calling that understandable, but now you're saying that anything above $30 is unreasonable for CDs. So I have to ask: how much exactly do you think cartridges cost to produce? To take your logic to its conclusion, you seem to be implying that every cartridge cost like $40 to make.

Regardless, this is classic Econ 101 supply and demand - a $50-$60 price point maximizes the satisfaction of both buyers and sellers in terms of the perceived value the former group receives and the profits the latter group receives. Hence, the games cost $50-$60. You are located in the left tail of the bell curve of buyers and don't feel that games are worth $50-$60, so you don't buy games for that amount. Nothing ridiculous about that, really.

because dead space extraction

[QUOTE="so_hai"]Hardcore Sin and Punishment fans (like the OP) failed to petition to get it released in my country. The question isn't 'why haven't I bought it', the question is 'why haven't the fans helped us to get it'... JordanElek

I don't have time right now. I'm still playing at Super Mario Galaxy 2 when I can.

In Australia. Actually I'm sorry about my comment, I just didn't like the provocative/antagonistic title of this thread. I support quality games when I can afford them, but it's frustrating when the US/EU rub it in our noses. I know in this case it wasn't intentional though.so_hai

because dead space extraction

wazzawazza18

[QUOTE="soulreaper-4"]

New games for the NES costed $42 dollars.

GabuEx

Keep in mind that that's $42 at the time, too. Taking inflation into account, and assuming that that magazine was from 1989 (I can't see a date on it, but Blades of Steel and Castlevania II were both released in North America in December 1988, so 1989 seems like a reasonable assumption), those new games would today cost between $68 and $77. Video games today are actually cheaper today than they were at that time.