Abortion ****

I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

It's a joke man... obviously my humour levels are phailing...

Stumpt25

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"] It's totally naturalStumpt25

That's the naturalistic fallacy. Fail.

You can't exactly ejaculate a baby naturally can you? Stumpt25

:?

.....YOU CAN EJACULATE A BABY?

my perspective on life is changed forever

I never said you could. The levels of failure you exude are bordering on the intoxicating.

It's a joke man... obviously my humour levels are phailing...

Oh, they are.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Few facts for you people, by day 21 the baby's heart starts to beat in a regular fashion and they often have a blood type different than the mother. Day 21...

At 6 weeks they can detect brain waves coming from the babies.

After day 1, or fertilization, absolutely nothing is added to the baby but oxygen, nutrition, and time.

9-12 weeks the baby has unique fingerprints that are evident and never change.

That is all just early pregnancy. No, not human at all.

Funky_Llama

None of the things you list here logically lead to abortion being wrong.

It's a seperate human being and you're killing them. Nothing wrong at all.

And movement! Babies move in the womb early in the pregnancy also.

I totally agree with what the TC said 100%, good post by the way. :D

Anyway, I think religion has to play a really big part in this. Because, like me, I believe that we, unlike animals, have a soul within us. But if you're not religious I guess you would just think that it would be like getting rid of a load of cells and there is no big deal. So I think that religion plays a major part in whether you consider abortion moral or immoral. Unless there is an extremely good medical reason to abort the baby, you've got yourself into this situation, deal with the consequences. It's not fair to be selfish, you don't know how you would feel if the baby was born. You'd rather kill it just in case you think you wouldn't be able to support it properly?

The levels of failure you exude are bordering on the intoxicating.

Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]

totalmachine

Dude I agree with everything you said. Abortion is one of the most stupidest things to have happened to this planet. We should all work together to make a better world for each other.

[QUOTE="lettuceman44"]I agree with your post.ShadowofTulkas

I'll second that.

I totally agree with what the TC said 100%, good post by the way. :D

Anyway, I think religion has to play a really big part in this. Because, like me, I believe that we, unlike animals, have a soul within us. But if you're not religious I guess you would just think that it would be like getting rid of a load of cells and there is no big deal. So I think that religion plays a major part in whether you consider abortion moral or immoral. Unless there is an extremely good medical reason to abort the baby, you've got yourself into this situation, deal with the consequences. It's not fair to be selfish, you don't know how you would feel if the baby was born. You'd rather kill it just in case you think you wouldn't be able to support it properly?

Lansdowne5

I'm not TOTALLY failing

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Funky_Llama

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Few facts for you people, by day 21 the baby's heart starts to beat in a regular fashion and they often have a blood type different than the mother. Day 21...

At 6 weeks they can detect brain waves coming from the babies.

After day 1, or fertilization, absolutely nothing is added to the baby but oxygen, nutrition, and time.

9-12 weeks the baby has unique fingerprints that are evident and never change.

That is all just early pregnancy. No, not human at all.

Chutebox

None of the things you list here logically lead to abortion being wrong.

It's a seperate human being and you're killing them. Nothing wrong at all.

And movement! Babies move in the womb early in the pregnancy also.

Me? I'm not killing them. As far as I'm aware. Anyway, they're not seperate human beings.

THEY MOVE? THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING! :roll:

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

The levels of failure you exude are bordering on the intoxicating.

Stumpt25

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]

totalmachine

Dude I agree with everything you said. Abortion is one of the most stupidest things to have happened to this planet. We should all work together to make a better world for each other.

[QUOTE="lettuceman44"]I agree with your post.ShadowofTulkas

I'll second that.

I totally agree with what the TC said 100%, good post by the way. :D

Anyway, I think religion has to play a really big part in this. Because, like me, I believe that we, unlike animals, have a soul within us. But if you're not religious I guess you would just think that it would be like getting rid of a load of cells and there is no big deal. So I think that religion plays a major part in whether you consider abortion moral or immoral. Unless there is an extremely good medical reason to abort the baby, you've got yourself into this situation, deal with the consequences. It's not fair to be selfish, you don't know how you would feel if the baby was born. You'd rather kill it just in case you think you wouldn't be able to support it properly?

Lansdowne5

I'm not TOTALLY failing

Oh, you are. There's just no shortage of people who don't realise that.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Funky_Llama

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Few facts for you people, by day 21 the baby's heart starts to beat in a regular fashion and they often have a blood type different than the mother. Day 21...

At 6 weeks they can detect brain waves coming from the babies.

After day 1, or fertilization, absolutely nothing is added to the baby but oxygen, nutrition, and time.

9-12 weeks the baby has unique fingerprints that are evident and never change.

That is all just early pregnancy. No, not human at all.

Funky_Llama

None of the things you list here logically lead to abortion being wrong.

It's a seperate human being and you're killing them. Nothing wrong at all.

And movement! Babies move in the womb early in the pregnancy also.

Me? I'm not killing them. As far as I'm aware. Anyway, they're not seperate human beings.

THEY MOVE? THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING! :roll:

You need to look up pregnancy because I can tell you're not knowledgeable about the subject, no offense of course.

They are separate from the mother, it's a fact no one can deny.

And I didn't you mean personally killing them, surely you know that...

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

Funky just loves to attack people using his scarecrow backfire. :lol:

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

:lol: Uh, no, I think you'll find that 'straw man' and 'fail' have totally different meanings. You're not too good at debating, are you? :lol:

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"PannicAtack

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

It's just a fact though.... Liberal people generally are FOR abortion...

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Lansdowne5

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

Funky just loves to attack people using his scarecrow backfire. :lol:

:roll: Read his 'argument'. It's quite obviously a straw man. You're defending the indefensible.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Funky_Llama

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

Funky just loves to attack people using his scarecrow backfire. :lol:

:roll: Read his 'argument'. It's quite obviously a straw man. You're defending the indefensible.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Few facts for you people, by day 21 the baby's heart starts to beat in a regular fashion and they often have a blood type different than the mother. Day 21...

At 6 weeks they can detect brain waves coming from the babies.

After day 1, or fertilization, absolutely nothing is added to the baby but oxygen, nutrition, and time.

9-12 weeks the baby has unique fingerprints that are evident and never change.

That is all just early pregnancy. No, not human at all.

Chutebox

None of the things you list here logically lead to abortion being wrong.

It's a seperate human being and you're killing them. Nothing wrong at all.

And movement! Babies move in the womb early in the pregnancy also.

Me? I'm not killing them. As far as I'm aware. Anyway, they're not seperate human beings.

THEY MOVE? THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING! :roll:

You need to look up pregnancy because I can tell you're not knowledgeable about the subject, no offense of course.

They are separate from the mother, it's a fact no one can deny.

And I didn't you mean personally killing them, surely you know that...

:lol: Ad hominem.

They're not separate from the mother. They really aren't.

And yes, I know that you didn't mean me personally.

Given his track record... >_>PannicAtack

Ah, I see what you did there. :P

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Funky_Llama

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

:lol: Uh, no, I think you'll find that 'straw man' and 'fail' have totally different meanings. You're not too good at debating, are you? :lol:

lol. insulting me... nice to see that you practice what you preach.

Straw man = A logic fallacy involving the purposeful misrepresentation of an argument in order to strike it down. = My arguement fails

They may not have the same definitions but they insinuate the same things. Can you just give at least ONE logical arguement about your opinion on abortion? Cause you can't exactly same i'm a bad debater when you haven't once discussed the topic title.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

It's just a fact though.... Liberal people generally are FOR abortion...

For abortion =/= abortions are great.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Few facts for you people, by day 21 the baby's heart starts to beat in a regular fashion and they often have a blood type different than the mother. Day 21...

At 6 weeks they can detect brain waves coming from the babies.

After day 1, or fertilization, absolutely nothing is added to the baby but oxygen, nutrition, and time.

9-12 weeks the baby has unique fingerprints that are evident and never change.

That is all just early pregnancy. No, not human at all.

Funky_Llama

None of the things you list here logically lead to abortion being wrong.

It's a seperate human being and you're killing them. Nothing wrong at all.

And movement! Babies move in the womb early in the pregnancy also.

Me? I'm not killing them. As far as I'm aware. Anyway, they're not seperate human beings.

THEY MOVE? THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING! :roll:

You need to look up pregnancy because I can tell you're not knowledgeable about the subject, no offense of course.

They are separate from the mother, it's a fact no one can deny.

And I didn't you mean personally killing them, surely you know that...

:lol: Ad hominem.

They're not separate from the mother. They really aren't.

OMGSH... :lol:

:lol: Ad hominem.

They're not separate from the mother. They really aren't.

And yes, I know that you didn't mean me personally.

Funky_Llama

I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong. How can a baby inside the womb have a different blood type, different heart beat and not be separate from the mother?

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Funky_Llama

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

It's just a fact though.... Liberal people generally are FOR abortion...

For abortion =/= abortions are great.

ok, let me rephrase. Most liberals would say:

"an abortion can be a great thing for a woman" (that's a quote from dan barker)

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

:lol: Uh, no, I think you'll find that 'straw man' and 'fail' have totally different meanings. You're not too good at debating, are you? :lol:

lol. insulting me... nice to see that you practice what you preach.

Straw man = A logic fallacy involving the purposeful misrepresentation of an argument in order to strike it down. = My arguement fails

They may not have the same definitions but they insinuate the same things. Can you just give at least ONE logical arguement about your opinion on abortion? Cause you can't exactly same i'm a bad debater when you haven't once discussed the topic title.

Heh... pathetic. Yes, your argument does fail. That doesn't mean that 'straw man' means the same as 'fail', it just means that, as a consequence of the straw man fallacy, your argument fails.

:lol: I haven't once discussed the topic title? I've been hotly debating it since pretty much the start of the thread!

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Stumpt25

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

It's just a fact though.... Liberal people generally are FOR abortion...

For abortion =/= abortions are great.

ok, let me rephrase. Most liberals would say:

"an abortion can be a great thing for a woman" (that's a quote from dan barker)

Dan Barker's opinion =/= most liberals' opinions.

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Funky_Llama

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

:lol: Uh, no, I think you'll find that 'straw man' and 'fail' have totally different meanings. You're not too good at debating, are you? :lol:

lol. insulting me... nice to see that you practice what you preach.

Straw man = A logic fallacy involving the purposeful misrepresentation of an argument in order to strike it down. = My arguement fails

They may not have the same definitions but they insinuate the same things. Can you just give at least ONE logical arguement about your opinion on abortion? Cause you can't exactly same i'm a bad debater when you haven't once discussed the topic title.

Heh... pathetic. Yes, your argument does fail. That doesn't mean that 'straw man' means the same as 'fail', it just means that, as a consequence of the straw man fallacy, your argument fails.

:lol: I haven't once discussed the topic title? I've been hotly debating it since pretty much the start of the thread!

More pathetic that you're getting hysterical because i have an opinion that differs to you. lol

[QUOTE="MagnumPI"] Holy bejesus people take abortion seriously. Stumpt25

Yeh! comon people! It's not like killing living human organisms is a big deal? Just chill ok?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

:lol: Ad hominem.

They're not separate from the mother. They really aren't.

And yes, I know that you didn't mean me personally.

Chutebox

I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong. How can a baby inside the womb have a different blood type, different heart beat and not be separate from the mother?

How is relevate that it has a different blood type and different heart beat?

The baby is physically connected to the mother.Thus they are not seperate.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

:lol: Ad hominem.

They're not separate from the mother. They really aren't.

And yes, I know that you didn't mean me personally.

Funky_Llama

I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong. How can a baby inside the womb have a different blood type, different heart beat and not be separate from the mother?

How is relevate that it has a different blood type and different heart beat?

The baby is physically connected to the mother.Thus they are not seperate.

Yes but people that hold hands are PHYSICALLY connected... doesn't mean they aren't separate people.

i want to continue it later...Stumpt25

Please don't...

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

:lol: Ad hominem.

They're not separate from the mother. They really aren't.

And yes, I know that you didn't mean me personally.

Stumpt25

I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong. How can a baby inside the womb have a different blood type, different heart beat and not be separate from the mother?

How is relevate that it has a different blood type and different heart beat?

The baby is physically connected to the mother.Thus they are not seperate.

Yes but people that hold hands are PHYSICALLY connected... doesn't mean they aren't separate people.

When someone holds hands with someone they're not dependant on them for their survival, nor are they connected to them in the same way as a baby is to its mother.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

:lol: Ad hominem.

They're not separate from the mother. They really aren't.

And yes, I know that you didn't mean me personally.

Funky_Llama

I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong. How can a baby inside the womb have a different blood type, different heart beat and not be separate from the mother?

How is relevate that it has a different blood type and different heart beat?

The baby is physically connected to the mother.Thus they are not seperate.

They are connected through the placenta, but they are two different people with different finger prints, differnt blood types, different heart beats.

They are two separate beings. It's a fact.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

:lol: Ad hominem.

They're not separate from the mother. They really aren't.

And yes, I know that you didn't mean me personally.

Chutebox

I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong. How can a baby inside the womb have a different blood type, different heart beat and not be separate from the mother?

How is relevate that it has a different blood type and different heart beat?

The baby is physically connected to the mother.Thus they are not seperate.

They are connected through the placenta, but they are two different people with different finger prints, differnt blood types, different heart beats.

They are two separate beings. It's a fact.

That's just begging the question.

When someone holds hands with someone they're not dependant on them for their survival, nor are they connected to them in the same way as a baby is to its mother.

Funky_Llama

When a mother is nursing they are "connected" and the baby is dependant on the milk for survival.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Stumpt25"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]I used to totally buy into the whole liberal "abortions are great"Funky_Llama

Straw man.

You can't just keep on saying "fail" and not giving any arguements.... that's the ULTIMATE fail...

I think you need your reading classes. It doesn't say 'fail', it says, 'straw man'.

I would say fail at this point, but apparently that would be the 'ULTIMATE' fail.

sigh. "Straw man" is just another way of saying fail.

DEFINITION:

Funky just loves to attack people using his scarecrow backfire. :lol:

:roll: Read his 'argument'. It's quite obviously a straw man. You're defending the indefensible.

I defend the fact that you say it is indefensible. No argument is ever indefensible. And anyway, did I ever say it was not a straw man argument? Or even defend his argument? All I said was that you love to keep saying to people that their argument doesn't work because it falls into this category or that category. I think you just expect people to submit because you use big, intelligent words. ;)

I defend the fact that you say it is indefensible. No argument is ever indefensible. And anyway, did I ever say it was not a straw man argument? Or even defend his argument? All I said was that you love to keep saying to people that their argument doesn't work because it falls into this category or that category. I think you just expect people to submit because you're intelligent words. :roll:

Lansdowne5

In other words, you're complaining because I point out fallacies. :lol:

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

When someone holds hands with someone they're not dependant on them for their survival, nor are they connected to them in the same way as a baby is to its mother.

Chutebox

When a mother is nursing they are "connected" and the baby is dependant on the milk for survival.

Actually, I would say that, while breastfeeding, the mother and baby aren't seperate. And even if the foetus is 'seperate', which it quite obviously isn't, that doesn't make abortion wrong anyway.

You know talking never got anyone anywhere. So far the gist is

"Yeah, I don't agree nor do I care so I will paraphrase my opinion every way I can."

So I say... If it's broke don't tell us about it, go fix it. :)

[QUOTE="tofu-lion91"]

If you don't use protection then yeh, you shouldn't be allowed to abort. However I'm on the pill and if I got pregnant I'm not financially able to support a baby, nor do I want one so I'd abort.

I think it's less cruel to abort a fetus than bring it up into a world where it won't be loved and well cared for. I stand for pro-choice. I don't want people to ALWAYS abort, I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I stand for giving people a choice.

Chutebox

I hope I don't seem too harsh, but you'd rather kill a baby than say put it up for adoption or find a couple that wants a baby?

i think its interesting that pro life people think we pro choice people dont have any moral ground to stand on

however i think tofu lion is certainly in the right here if your activly trying not to get pregnant and it happens by accident anyways its ok to abort.

also i dont think you should be allowed to have a countable stance on the issue unless you have been in a position where you had to decide on this kind of thing before

Abortion is a terrible thing, and I am ashamed that my country allows it. The US played a big role in ending the Holocaust, yet we allow abortion to continue, which is just as bad as the Holocaust. dunamistheou

I invoke Godwin's Law.