Abortion

Remind me not to sleep at your house.

racer8dan

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

Remind me not to sleep at your house.

Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="alexside1"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

.. Many would say they are already dead.. When a person is brain dead.. They are more or less already dead, and medical machines are keeping the husks that of their body alive.

sSubZerOo

:| We don't take those people off life support... wstfld clearly meant that, as in people who are brain dead.. Or are so brain damaged that they are not self aware anymore.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

Remind me not to sleep at your house.

racer8dan

Unless you're lucid dreaming, yes, you technically are.

racer8dan

"Unconsciousness is when a person is unable to respond to people and activities. Often, this is called a coma or being in a comatose state. Being asleep is not the same thing as being unconscious. A sleeping person will respond to loud noises or gentle shaking -- an unconscious person will not."

From Wikipedia:

"Unconsciousness, more appropriately referred to as loss of consciousness or lack of consciousness, is a dramatic alteration of mental state that involves complete or near-complete lack of responsiveness to people and other environmental stimuli. Being in a comatose state or coma is an illustration of unconsciousness. Fainting due to a drop in blood pressure and a decrease of the oxygen supply to the brain is an illustration of a temporary loss of consciousness. Loss of consciousness must not be confused with altered states of consciousness, such as delirium (when the person is confused and only partially responsive to the environment), normal sleep, hypnosis, and other altered states in which the person responds to stimuli."

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

Unless you're lucid dreaming, yes, you technically are.

Engrish_Major

"Unconsciousness is when a person is unable to respond to people and activities. Often, this is called a coma or being in a comatose state. Being asleep is not the same thing as being unconscious. A sleeping person will respond to loud noises or gentle shaking -- an unconscious person will not."

From Wikipedia:

"Unconsciousness, more appropriately referred to as loss of consciousness or lack of consciousness, is a dramatic alteration of mental state that involves complete or near-complete lack of responsiveness to people and other environmental stimuli. Being in a comatose state or coma is an illustration of unconsciousness. Fainting due to a drop in blood pressure and a decrease of the oxygen supply to the brain is an illustration of a temporary loss of consciousness. Loss of consciousness must not be confused with altered states of consciousness, such as delirium (when the person is confused and only partially responsive to the environment), normal sleep, hypnosis, and other altered states in which the person responds to stimuli."

What about deep sleepers?

racer8dan

And my answer would be the exact same.. Yes.. the burden always on the woman in the situation.. Not the man.. This is not a equal rights thing, because the woman has far greater burden then the man.. Regardless if the woman wants it or not, the man needs to pay.. If not the man should not have had sex.. Now before you go that "this is unfair!".. Your damn right it is, because what the woman has to go through biologically isn't fair either.. If we were to some how give supposed equal rights on the situation, the woman comes out short handed every time.. The fact of the matter is the woman has to put in far more effort into this.. The man does not a simple climax, something he can produce multiple times a day.. While the woman has to deal with a radical and painful condition 9 months that effects them physically, socially and mentally... I am sorry but the guys that think that they are "losing" something from this for when a fetus of theirs gets aborted.. Oh well? Its not like you did much to get the woman pregnant.. The real toil is the 9 months it self, and the raising of the child not the conception.. The conception is the easiest part.. If it wasn't we would not have so many unwanted burdens in this field... Thats my opinion.. The amount of effort a man puts in such things is always secondary compared to the woman.. If this weren't the case men would never have burden from unwanted pregenancies... And women would always have the burden.. This isn't fair to child or woman.. Imo.

sSubZerOo

So, in short, women should have complete freedom in choosing whether or not to have a child. However, men should have no freedom. They should not be compensated if a woman decides to abort their child, but they should be forced to support a child they don't want. This to you is fair, yes?

I don't care, as long as the biological father can request them on children he doesn't want.

I just do not understand how people can be prolife. Prolife sounds nice, but c'mon...it might as well be Pro-forcing-people-to-do-things-they-dont-want-to-do

Prochoice is exactly that...choice. It allows people to do what they wish, and figure out the moral dilemna for themselves (which is their problem, and no one else's).

Prolife is oppression, plain and simple, and is only appropriate in fascist states.

If girls stopped being the whores they are today, not ever girl is like that, then we would all be good. To bad that will never happen, just use a condom or take the pill, not hard, this is not a pun.

If you are raped I think that you have the right for one though, as long as you were drunk in public and flashing everyone who walked by you or something like that.

I don't think it's fair to say that anyone is 'for' abortion. No one is in the streets screaming for people to abort fetuses for the fun of it. The thing that has to be recognized is that a child is a severe strain on life. I look at it from the stand-point of "why ruin two lives?" If you have a woman that is not receiving any sort of support from the male in the relationship, you will have a woman and a newborn child living in a rut. The woman will be working all the time just to make ends meet and the child will suffer because of it. This will sometimes create a 'broken' child that has no real moral compass because there was no one in his / her life to instill such a thing. It's a tough decision. A decision that should be left to those that are in the situation. The simple solution of "drop it off at an orphanage" simply doesn't cut it. No one knows, until they're in the situation, just how hard it could be to know your child is living with someone else. I don't beleive that abortion is wrong. The fetus could not live outside of the body until the third trimester and late-term abortions are, rightfully, illegal. However, anything in the early terms of pregnancy should remain legal, as there is nothing really formed in there. In essence, up until about 6 - 8 weeks you are aborting what looks like a tadpole. A mass of cells. NOT a baby. It's a very hard thing to really put in order, which is why it should always be left to the person / people who are in the situation. No one should interfere with it. Now, for the people that use it as a form of birth control.... That is a whole different story.BrianB0422

yeah, I'm with this guy

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Prove God exists and then we can continue this line of thought.

worlock77

Don't be silly. No one can do that.

I will quote my last sentence:

Regardless if God exists or not I believe that the responsibility of such actions falls on the shoulders of many more people then just the mother who wants to abort her pregnancy.

How so?

The responsibility effects the father, both families involved andthe doctor (s) involved. You can connect the dots on just how it effects them. I believe a life is created the moment the egg is fertilized. So to end a pregnancy is to end a life. Yes the body isn't fully developed, the brain isn't functioning, etc...but it's still a life. A very fragile life, but a life none the less.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

Don't be silly. No one can do that.

I will quote my last sentence:

Regardless if God exists or not I believe that the responsibility of such actions falls on the shoulders of many more people then just the mother who wants to abort her pregnancy.

zmbi_gmr

How so?

The responsibility effects the father, both families involved andthe doctor (s) involved. You can connect the dots on just how it effects them. I believe a life is created the moment the egg is fertilized. So to end a pregnancy is to end a life. Yes the body isn't fully developed, the brain isn't functioning, etc...but it's still a life. A very fragile life, but a life none the less.

Sure there's a few more people involved, but those people have choses to be involved (or not involved, as is often the case with the father). Sure it's life. We end life all the time. What makes this fetus an exception?

Sure it's life. We end life all the time. What makes this fetus an exception?

worlock77

That's what I've been saying. It's not like the little f***ers are going to form a resistance and fight back.

I'm against it. Why kill someone because you're not ready for the responsibility?

I'm against it. Why kill someone because you're not ready for the responsibility?

lowkey254

I'm against it. Why kill someone because you're not ready for the responsibility?

lowkey254

Why carry them to term and then try to raise them if you're not ready for the responsibility?

[QUOTE="lowkey254"]

I'm against it. Why kill someone because you're not ready for the responsibility?

worlock77

Why carry them to term and then try to raise them if you're not ready for the responsibility?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lowkey254"]

I'm against it. Why kill someone because you're not ready for the responsibility?

racer8dan

Why carry them to term and then try to raise them if you're not ready for the responsibility?

Which doesn't address the question in the least.

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

How so?

worlock77

The responsibility effects the father, both families involved andthe doctor (s) involved. You can connect the dots on just how it effects them. I believe a life is created the moment the egg is fertilized. So to end a pregnancy is to end a life. Yes the body isn't fully developed, the brain isn't functioning, etc...but it's still a life. A very fragile life, but a life none the less.

Sure there's a few more people involved, but those people have choses to be involved (or not involved, as is often the case with the father). Sure it's life. We end life all the time. What makes this fetus an exception?

Generalize much? If I were a betting man (which I am) I'd put money down that most teen pregnancies that end in abortion are by teen girls who decided to not inform the father. Then there is the other side of the coin where the father would like to keep the child, but since the mother has the final call they get to decide the fate.

There is a big difference from ending the life of a fetus who's done nothing wrong compared to ending the life of an inmate on death row or an enemy in war, etc... Yes we end life all the time, but that is not the discussion here. That bit on info doesn't challenge the fact that ending the life of a fetus is wrong or not. I guess that is the direction you were trying to steer this conversation, but maybe I'm wrong?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lowkey254"]

I'm against it. Why kill someone because you're not ready for the responsibility?

racer8dan

Why carry them to term and then try to raise them if you're not ready for the responsibility?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

The responsibility effects the father, both families involved andthe doctor (s) involved. You can connect the dots on just how it effects them. I believe a life is created the moment the egg is fertilized. So to end a pregnancy is to end a life. Yes the body isn't fully developed, the brain isn't functioning, etc...but it's still a life. A very fragile life, but a life none the less.

zmbi_gmr

Sure there's a few more people involved, but those people have choses to be involved (or not involved, as is often the case with the father). Sure it's life. We end life all the time. What makes this fetus an exception?

Generalize much? If I were a betting man (which I am) I'd put money down that most teen pregnancies that end in abortion are by teen girls who decided to not inform the father. Then there is the other side of the coin where the father would like to keep the child, but since the mother has the final call they get to decide the fate.

There is a big difference from ending the life of a fetus who's done nothing wrong compared to ending the life of an inmate on death row or an enemy in war, etc... Yes we end life all the time, but that is not the discussion here. That bit on info doesn't challenge the fact that ending the life of a fetus is wrong or not. I guess that is the direction you were trying to steer this conversation, but maybe I'm wrong?

- I didn't realize this was a topic specifically about teens getting abortions. I thought it was about abortion in general.

- I was not steering the topic in any direction. I stated that we end life all the time. What makes a fetus so special here? Yeah, we kill people in our death chambers. We kill enemy combatants. We end the lives thousands of innocents in our wars and callously write them off as "collateral damage". We end the lives of the sick, the hungry, the homeless by our refusal to do anything. We end the lives of animals by the millions in order to sate our lust for meat. We end the lives of millions more animals by our destruction of the environment. We clearly do not hold life to be sacred, so what makes the fetus so worthy of being protected?

You guys really want to control what a woman does with her body, huh? :|

You guys really want to control what a woman does with her body, huh? :|

no_more_fayth

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

You guys really want to control what a woman does with her body, huh? :|

racer8dan

It is HER body. That little thing inside her is using her nutrients and her energy to grow. Just because it has different genetic material doesn't make it any less a part of the womans body. A tape worm has different genetic material than the host, but a person has ever right to remove it as it's the persons body that the thing is living in.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Sure it's life. We end life all the time. What makes this fetus an exception?

Palantas

That's what I've been saying. It's not like the little f***ers are going to form a resistance and fight back.

Vehemently against it.

They say a fetus younger than 24 weeks can't feel pain. Which of course is why an 18-week-old baby is fighting and hitting to get away from the probe. Yeah, sounds pretty 'painless' to me.

Makes me sick. If you don't want the damn baby, ladies, don't go whoring yourself out to your 'boyfriend' who will likely leave you as soon as someone else comes along. There are such things as condoms and the pill. I know, shocking.

Fusionmix

What about cases of rape?
Why should the woman have to carry the fetus for 9 months here she didn't even want to perform the act in the first place?

BuryMe

Lots of people have posed this question. Maybe you can help me out here.

• Why does it matter if a woman was raped or not?
• Why does it matter if she intented to get pregant or not?

What is the fuctional difference between a woman getting raped or a condom breaking? I don't get it. To my thinking, either the little thing is a person, and you shouldn't kill it irregardless of circumstances, or the little thing is not a person, and you can have abortions as a hobby all you like.

Abortion is immoral, period.

Fine with it. In cases of rape, incest, ectopic pregnancy, and teen pregnancy, it's the best option.

Abortion is immoral, period.

CBR600-RR

Morality is subjective, period.

shouldn't kill it irregardless of circumstances,

Palantas

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

Abortion is immoral, period.

redstorm72

Morality is subjective, period.

I doubt it, that's like saying it's right to steal.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

Abortion is immoral, period.

CBR600-RR

Morality is subjective, period.

I doubt it, that's like saying it's right to steal.

Is Robin Hood a hero or a criminal?

I think hero.

So in his case, it was right to steal.

[QUOTE="I"]

...shouldn't kill it irregardless of circumstances...

alexside1

That's ridiculous, we do circumstances all the time in the court of law.

Like self-defense or criminal executions. Lotsa babies in those categories.

You have something to add?

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Morality is subjective, period.

no_more_fayth

I doubt it, that's like saying it's right to steal.

Is Robin Hood a hero or a criminal?

I think hero.

So in his case, it was right to steal.

It's still wrong to steal whatever the circumstance.

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I doubt it, that's like saying it's right to steal.

CBR600-RR

Is Robin Hood a hero or a criminal?

I think hero.

So in his case, it was right to steal.

It's still wrong to steal whatever the circumstance.

So is it wrong to kill in the time of war?

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I doubt it, that's like saying it's right to steal.

CBR600-RR

Is Robin Hood a hero or a criminal?

I think hero.

So in his case, it was right to steal.

It's still wrong to steal whatever the circumstance.

So is it wrong to kill in the time of war?

no_more_fayth

Yes, war is silly.

I would steal as a last resort to feed my family so that they may live...is doing what it takes to feed my family wrong?BreakTheseLinks

Then that's your fault you got yourself into that situation.