Here's a hypothetical scenario for those who think Jones is innocent here: A man meets an unstable murderer in a public street. He knows the man is an unstable murderer. The unstable murderer tells the man, "If you flip me the bird, I'm gonna kill as many people as I can." In response, the man flips the unstable murderer the bird and moons him simply because he likes to. The unstable murderer kills ten people, gets caught and goes to jail. The man who provoked him goes home and makes a video of him flipping the bird to send to the unstable murderer in prison. Despite the fact that he did nothing illegal, is the man without blame?
Terry Jones: Herp derp gonna burn a Koran and piss off people who can attack our soldiers. Afghan Militants: Herp derp pissed off at American guy in Florida; gonna attack UN building in Afghanistan.
So its fine to kill thousands of people for oil, but not 7 for a religious conviction?
It doesnt matter. It doesnt justify the death of anyone. Those Muslims deserved to be killed.
RadecSupreme
Americans have killed more Muslims then Muslims have killed westerners. So your logic dictates that Westerners deserve to die.
Who started the conflict tell me? Who committed 9/11? Who started the invasion of Kuwait? And I am not talking about who has killed more militants, I am talking about who has killed more innocent people. I think we know that answer.
using the same logic people are using to blame this guy who burned the book, we can blame the Islamic extremism, if it were not for these extremists than he never would have had the thought to burn the book.
What if those Muslims burned Bibles and Terry Jones started killing people? Would it be their fault? :lol:
Dalo12345
Why shy away from reality? Why try to add a mythological situation to justify what others did? And no, Terry Jones would be to blame. He would be considered an unstable and illogical man just like those muslims.
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Terry Jones is a horrible man for knowingly provoking terrorists, but the ones responsible for the killing are the killers. Still, Jones is not without blame.Dalo12345
You really think they wouldn't have killed people anyway?
What they would have done anyway is not an excuse to provoke them further.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]i wish i could kill a bunch of people and blame someone 10,000 miles away, and have people actually believe me and defend my absurd stance. RadecSupreme
People are not defending the killers, murder is awful in any circumstance. However this Jones guy is equally as bad.
He isnt equally as bad at all. He didnt commit any crime. Do you not comprehend this?
The book burning was a symbolic act. It was done in order to anger a deeply religious people. It was also shameless self promotion by Mr. Jones. He got exactly what he wanted, people getting killed because of his actions is exactly what he wanted to happen. I think religious zealots are all misguided, in this instance that applies to both Jones and the Muslims.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"] People are not defending the killers, murder is awful in any circumstance. However this Jones guy is equally as bad.tenaka2
He isnt equally as bad at all. He didnt commit any crime. Do you not comprehend this?
The book burning was a symbolic act. It was done in order to anger a deeply religious people. It was also shameless self promotion by Mr. Jones. He got exactly what he wanted, people getting killed because of his actions is exactly what he wanted to happen. I think religious zealots are all misguided, in this instance that applies to both Jones and the Muslims.
haha, so we should just sat qiuet and be scared little puppies because they threaten our life? Their religion deserves no respect if it advocates more death to innocent people. Terry Jones could provoke them all they want, they need to learn to control themselves or face justice. Its their own actions. Everybody makes their choices, no one "forces" them to do it.
since so many people are dying, U.S. should just capture and execute terry jones to prevent further loss of life.
Harisemo
This is the same kind of logic that leads to "lets make women cover themselves from head to foot so they don't provoke the rapists in our midst."
whats wrong with that logic?
It is anti-thetical to the notion of individual freedom that we have here in the USA. Not sure where you live, but here we treat women as equals, not property.
It doesnt matter. It doesnt justify the death of anyone. Those Muslims deserved to be killed.
RadecSupreme
muslims did that in reaction. now terry jones, who lit the fire which lead to the awful reaction, should be sacrificed to save lives of other innocent people.
Should African Americans have stopped their civil rights movement simply because racist people threatened to lynch and kill them? I have not found any logic in any of your posts.
theres a difference between civil rights movement and doing something solely to piss off someone.
It doesnt matter. It doesnt justify the death of anyone. Those Muslims deserved to be killed.
RadecSupreme
Americans have killed more Muslims then Muslims have killed westerners. So your logic dictates that Westerners deserve to die.
Who started the conflict tell me? Who committed 9/11? Who started the invasion of Kuwait? And I am not talking about who has killed more militants, I am talking about who has killed more innocent people. I think we know that answer.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki say hello. However if you think 9/11 was the start of the troubles in the middle east your slightly of the mark.
muslims did that in reaction. now terry jones, who lit the fire which lead to the awful reaction, should be sacrificed to save lives of other innocent people.
Harisemo
Should African Americans have stopped their civil rights movement simply because racist people threatened to lynch and kill them? I have not found any logic in any of your posts.
theres a difference between civil rights movement and doing something solely to piss off someone.
Piss people off? Do you know what Terry Jones reason is or are you simply stating what you think it is? I do not appreciate the man, but he is putting to light what Muslims are capable of doing because of a book.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"] Americans have killed more Muslims then Muslims have killed westerners. So your logic dictates that Westerners deserve to die.tenaka2
Who started the conflict tell me? Who committed 9/11? Who started the invasion of Kuwait? And I am not talking about who has killed more militants, I am talking about who has killed more innocent people. I think we know that answer.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki say hello. However if you think 9/11 was the start of the troubles in the middle east your slightly of the mark.
The U.S. was already at war with Japan for years. They werent at war with Afghanistan during 9/11.
muslims did that in reaction. now terry jones, who lit the fire which lead to the awful reaction, should be sacrificed to save lives of other innocent people.
Harisemo
Should African Americans have stopped their civil rights movement simply because racist people threatened to lynch and kill them? I have not found any logic in any of your posts.
theres a difference between civil rights movement and doing something solely to piss off someone.
we have the freedom to do as we wish with our property in this country as long as it does not endanger others, and making a little camp fire does not endanger others. we do not have the ability to control others as that would make them slaves and not free.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"] Americans have killed more Muslims then Muslims have killed westerners. So your logic dictates that Westerners deserve to die.tenaka2
Who started the conflict tell me? Who committed 9/11? Who started the invasion of Kuwait? And I am not talking about who has killed more militants, I am talking about who has killed more innocent people. I think we know that answer.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki say hello. However if you think 9/11 was the start of the troubles in the middle east your slightly of the mark.
Why are you mentioning the nuclear bombs? I am speaking off the Middle East...... 9/11 started the recent conflict in Afghanistan. I know exactly about the earlier conflicts in the middle east such as Israel/Palestine, the Russian occupation of Afghanistan and the war for Kuwait. But that would be offtopic just like your mention of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
haha, so we should just sat qiuet and be scared little puppies because they threaten our life? Their religion deserves no respect if it advocates more death to innocent people. Terry Jones could provoke them all they want, they need to learn to control themselves or face justice. Its their own actions. Everybody makes their choices, no one "forces" them to do it.
RadecSupreme
Threaten your lives?
Well yes I suppose with the current military occupation buy Muslims forces across the United states does put your life in danger, along with the daily aircraft bombings, lack of power and water and the ever looming threat of civil war it must make you pretty scared.
Why are you mentioning the nuclear bombs? I am speaking off the Middle East...... 9/11 started the recent conflict in Afghanistan. I know exactly about the earlier conflicts in the middle east such as Israel/Palestine, the Russian occupation of Afghanistan and the war for Kuwait. But that would be offtopic just like your mention of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
RadecSupreme
It was in response to 'who has killed more innocent people'.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"] People are not defending the killers, murder is awful in any circumstance. However this Jones guy is equally as bad.tenaka2
He isnt equally as bad at all. He didnt commit any crime. Do you not comprehend this?
The book burning was a symbolic act. It was done in order to anger a deeply religious people. It was also shameless self promotion by Mr. Jones. He got exactly what he wanted, people getting killed because of his actions is exactly what he wanted to happen. I think religious zealots are all misguided, in this instance that applies to both Jones and the Muslims. Exactly why can't people make the difference between an act that is intended solely to provoke some terrorist to kill people and not subjecting ourselves to the will of extremists beats me.
Piss people off? Do you know what Terry Jones reason is or are you simply stating what you think it is? I do not appreciate the man, but he is putting to light what Muslims are capable of doing because of a book.
[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]haha, so we should just sat qiuet and be scared little puppies because they threaten our life? Their religion deserves no respect if it advocates more death to innocent people. Terry Jones could provoke them all they want, they need to learn to control themselves or face justice. Its their own actions. Everybody makes their choices, no one "forces" them to do it.
tenaka2
Threaten your lives?
Well yes I suppose with the current military occupation buy Muslims forces across the United states does put your life in danger, along with the daily aircraft bombings, lack of power and water and the ever looming threat of civil war it must make you pretty scared.
You mention all of that yet you fail to mention the reason behind all of it. Shows your bias.
[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]haha, so we should just sat qiuet and be scared little puppies because they threaten our life? Their religion deserves no respect if it advocates more death to innocent people. Terry Jones could provoke them all they want, they need to learn to control themselves or face justice. Its their own actions. Everybody makes their choices, no one "forces" them to do it.
RadecSupreme
Threaten your lives?
Well yes I suppose with the current military occupation buy Muslims forces across the United states does put your life in danger, along with the daily aircraft bombings, lack of power and water and the ever looming threat of civil war it must make you pretty scared.
You mention all of that yet you fail to mention the reason behind all of it. Shows your bias.
You keep thinking 9/11 had no reason at all while ignoring the decades the US was in the Middle East messing with the region for oil and strategic reasons prior to the 9/11 attack.
[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]haha, so we should just sat qiuet and be scared little puppies because they threaten our life? Their religion deserves no respect if it advocates more death to innocent people. Terry Jones could provoke them all they want, they need to learn to control themselves or face justice. Its their own actions. Everybody makes their choices, no one "forces" them to do it.
RadecSupreme
Threaten your lives?
Well yes I suppose with the current military occupation buy Muslims forces across the United states does put your life in danger, along with the daily aircraft bombings, lack of power and water and the ever looming threat of civil war it must make you pretty scared.
You mention all of that yet you fail to mention the reason behind all of it. Shows your bias.
I have a bias towards lack of knowledge. Muslims don't have issues with the west because they are evil. They have issues with the West because western governments have been messing around with the their countries for years, stripping the natural resource, imposing puppet regimes often ensuring countries are kept at a 3rd world level so they are easier to exploit.
Piss people off? Do you know what Terry Jones reason is or are you simply stating what you think it is? I do not appreciate the man, but he is putting to light what Muslims are capable of doing because of a book.
Harisemo
so what were the reasons he burned the Quran?
does not matter, if it is his property he has the right to do as he wishes to it, including burning it.
Here's a hypothetical scenario for those who think Jones is innocent here: A man meets an unstable murderer in a public street. He knows the man is an unstable murderer. The unstable murderer tells the man, "If you flip me the bird, I'm gonna kill as many people as I can." In response, the man flips the unstable murderer the bird and moons him simply because he likes to. The unstable murderer kills ten people, gets caught and goes to jail. The man who provoked him goes home and makes a video of him flipping the bird to send to the unstable murderer in prison. Despite the fact that he did nothing illegal, is the man without blame?Theokhoth
I think the situation here is a little more complicated, but to answer your question basically yes. You can't be responsible for what crazy people do or threaten to do when you fail to meet their demands. That may create some unfortunate situations, like the one in question here, but I think the alternative is far worse: You become controlled by crazy people.
Terry Jones is a horrible man for knowingly provoking terrorists, but the ones responsible for the killing are the killers. Still, Jones is not without blame.Theokhoth
What's the distinction between "responsible" and "blame" you're making here?
Way to go Jones. I'd like to see the Patriot Act go after this domestic terrorist. But of course, his color of skin is a few shades too light. Maniacc1
What have he done to be called a domestic terrorist? Burning the quran isn't an illegal act, and it isn't an act of terror. There is no reason to limit freedom of expression for this idiot just because some other idiots in another part kills people. If we do that why not start banning video games because it may cause some idiots to do dumb stuff.
As reprehensible as it is, publicly destroying books (along with other symbolic items, like the American Flag) is constitutionally protected speech.
But, murdering innocent civilians is far more reprehensible. These people had a choice: refuse to rise to his bait and protest peacefully, or go out and kill innocents and (in the pastor's own mind) prove him right.
I will feel no sympathy for the Afghans if the US military comes down hard on them after this.
Why should there be consequences for doing something that's within his rights?
surrealnumber5
I don't think that "rights" means what you think it means.
he burned a book, i burn junk mail all the time how do the two acts differ? i guess i am also responsible for these actions. You are obviously intentionally ignoring the point. The bill of rights is a piece of paper also, do you think that if someone announced they were going to burn it, and then did so that no one in the US would have any issues? Do you think America as a nation would just say 'meh, its just a piece of paper'?
You are obviously intentionally ignoring the point. The bill of rights is a piece of paper also, do you think that if someone announced they were going to burn it, and then did so that no one in the US would have any issues? Do you think America as a nation would just say 'meh, its just a piece of paper'?tenaka2
We regularly get a big dose of images of our flag being burned in the middle east. But I am unaware of a single incident of it resulting in a murderous riot in the USA.
I don't think anyone is saying the muslims in Afghanistan shouldn't have issues with pastor butthead. But killing people is certainly not justified, especially innocent people that had nothing to do with the original offense.
Can't blame Terry Jones thats just dumb! I don't care if he burned the Quaran, muslims need to get over it, like really lets kill 7 people who have nothing to do with this, because were mad someone burned a book we really care about. A bunch of immature babies whoever protested and caused the deaths of these people.
th3warr1or
He didn't have to burn it. Everyone knows that those people are like that, there was no point to prove. freedom of speech. if he wants to burn the kuran then he can. if the creators of south park wants to make fun of mohamed then they can....who the f are muslims to say other wise....the problem isnt us. its their mentality. yes lets not make fun of mulsims because they are crazy and serious. lets be affriad of them till the end of time....im so sick of this ****....
Just because he didn't physically kill anyone doesn't mean that he is blameless. He did this to inteionally provoke the exact reaction that happen. He holds some guilt in it. Maybe not legally, but morally he does. And I'm so goddamn tired of hateful s***bags hiding behind the 1st amendment. Man up and take some f***ing responsibility you cowards.
I don't think that "rights" means what you think it means.
tenaka2
he burned a book, i burn junk mail all the time how do the two acts differ? i guess i am also responsible for these actions. You are obviously intentionally ignoring the point. The bill of rights is a piece of paper also, do you think that if someone announced they were going to burn it, and then did so that no one in the US would have any issues? Do you think America as a nation would just say 'meh, its just a piece of paper'? if the bll of rights was burned we would still have the knowledge within, there would be no loss.
Just because he didn't physically kill anyone doesn't mean that he is blameless. He did this to inteionally provoke the exact reaction that happen. He holds some guilt in it. Maybe not legally, but morally he does. And I'm so goddamn tired of hateful s***bags hiding behind the 1st amendment. Man up and take some f***ing responsibility you cowards.
worlock77
yes, blame the guy who wanted to show the true colors of muslims. lets not blame the crazy muslims who think they have the right to take the life of random ppl.
Just because he didn't physically kill anyone doesn't mean that he is blameless. He did this to inteionally provoke the exact reaction that happen. He holds some guilt in it. Maybe not legally, but morally he does. And I'm so goddamn tired of hateful s***bags hiding behind the 1st amendment. Man up and take some f***ing responsibility you cowards.
worlock77
and if i called you a poop head would it be my fault if you went out and killed some mid 20's accountants?
Just because he didn't physically kill anyone doesn't mean that he is blameless. He did this to inteionally provoke the exact reaction that happen. He holds some guilt in it. Maybe not legally, but morally he does. And I'm so goddamn tired of hateful s***bags hiding behind the 1st amendment. Man up and take some f***ing responsibility you cowards.
GreatEmpire
yes, blame the guy who wanted to show the true colors of muslims. lets not blame the crazy muslims who think they have the right to take the life of random ppl.
GTFO hippies
Nowhere did I say those Muslims were blamelees. If I intentionally provoke a nest full of hornets am I blameless when those hornets attack someone?
[QUOTE="tenaka2"] You are obviously intentionally ignoring the point. The bill of rights is a piece of paper also, do you think that if someone announced they were going to burn it, and then did so that no one in the US would have any issues? Do you think America as a nation would just say 'meh, its just a piece of paper'?collegeboy64
We regularly get a big dose of images of our flag being burned in the middle east. But I am unaware of a single incident of it resulting in a murderous riot in the USA.
I don't think anyone is saying the muslims in Afghanistan shouldn't have issues with pastor butthead. But killing people is certainly not justified, especially innocent people that had nothing to do with the original offense.
There have been Murderous riots in the US, a guys was beaten to death because a bunch of southern folk thought he looked like Osama bin Laden, I imagine there have been more but I'd have to look it up. And again, no one is defending murder, I'm certainly not.
It is idiotic, and it undoubtlly will fuel anger from the other side. His act was not considered friendly in our world and it is only natural for violence to rise.
Killing innocent people is forbidden, As a muslim, i condemn the acts of killing innocent people.
Nibroc420
That's wrong, and maybe you guys need to do something about it, because it shouldn't be natural for violence to rise just because someone burned your book.
HAHA you're kidding right? Muslim extremists attack us at 9/11. and some pastor thinks it's ok for him to broadcast him burning their most sacred text? He's asking for bloodshed. There's extremists in every religion, and this pastor decided that he had something to prove.
There are more extremists in Islam than any other modern day religion.
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