Atheism.... why are you doing this?

this funny thing happened to me at school today

so, I was in a debate with this girl over evolution.

she said there was evidence of intelligent design

I asked her to produce this evidence

she said that the bacterial flagellum is too complex to have evolved.

before I got a chance to tell her that the individual parts that make up the flagellum have or once had a function, she just said that she was not gonna listen to me

religious dogmatism at its finest

I'll be honest, I consider myself to be a pretty knowledgeable, but I read that article and most of it didn't make any sense to me at all. It's not because it's poorly written or anything like that, it's because I don't have the proper background necessary in order to make sense out of what I'm reading. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you do either.

I'm sure you're saying to yourself, well then how do you know it isn't correct? The answer is I really don't, but I also don't know if it's wrong either. What I do know is that it is a single source, that comes from a website that clearly has a bias towards showing the historical accuracy of the bible.

The authors of that website look at the evidence, and they draw conclusions from that evidence. I can show you other sources that look at that same evidence and draw a completely different conclusion. There just isn't any kind of general consensus as to the historical accuracy of the Bible with regards to the Exodus because there simply isn't enough data to work with.

Decessus

I understand a good bit of it, but I know what you're saying.

Believe it or not, that site is very unbiased. It actually has a page that shows the attempts to show how religion is all psychological and blah blagh blah, and even has a POSITIVE review of The God Delusion.

Perhaps, but I found this to be very interesting.

[QUOTE="lord_mordain"]

grrrr.....

If I could, I'd shoot both of you!!!!

But alas....

They do not make guns that work over the internet....

So I will have to just stare at you both very very angrily!!!

Silver_Dragon17

:|

:|

:|

:|

:|

:|

:|

:|

:|

:|

:|

You blinked.:|

MY EYES WERE DRY DAMN IT!!!!

I haven't slept much.....

I understand a good bit of it, but I know what you're saying.

Believe it or not, that site is very unbiased. It actually has a page that shows the attempts to show how religion is all psychological and blah blagh blah, and even has a POSITIVE review of The God Delusion.

Perhaps, but I found this to be very interesting.

Silver_Dragon17

I'm not saying it's not interesting. From what I did understand, there seem to be some good points brought up. However, it would be foolish to come to any kind of conclusion based solely on that single source. Especially when I'm not an historian or an archaeologist and can't be sure how accurate much of that information really is.

[QUOTE="TMontana1004"][QUOTE="ALTER_duo"][QUOTE="TMontana1004"][QUOTE="ALTER_duo"][QUOTE="TMontana1004"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]I am a teapot atheist because I don't believe in any theistic god, supernatural intelligence, afterlife, or anything beyond the natural universe. This is a belief gathered due to the sheer lack of evidence for those beliefs that I reject. [QUOTE="antonius05"]Yah, but would you really rather beleive in dying and nothing after that then heaven and hell? ( i think i just answered my own question but w/e).ALTER_duo

Because people are getting dumber by the minute.Bubba-louiy

[QUOTE="Greedo_What"]Because not havinga religion = the new cool thing to do. First NES, then Backstreet boys... Now it's Atheism!Bubba-louiy

Religon threads....why did you make one?-Rail_Man-

lmao ur final response is so true

but the others werent?

no not necessarily...

how so?

What I am trying to say is that those statements aren't necessarily false -- I just don't think they are true. Unfortunately I will never know until death.

yea i couldnt have put it better myself. i mean i know that sounds like a pathetic excuse and that im completely condricting myself but we wont know the entire truth until we die its a fact. BELIEVE IT!

On the other hand, if there really is nothing after death, then we won't know anything will we?

Well I truely respect everyones decision in life, but like all of my friends have converted to atheism, I for one am not going to convert, but I am also not that kind of person who beleives every single thing in the bibile and reads the bible 24/7 and beleive in creationism, but I do not see the point of atheism. Can anyone tell me why is this happening? Its like the whole world is being over run with people without a belief of a afterlife.antonius05

In my opinion this would classify you as a good person. I'm an athiest and I'm quite against christianity, but only because they relentlessly restrict my rights because "its not against gods will". If you believe in religeon but let over people believe what they want to believe and are open minded about the world around you that makes you the best kind of christian.

okay well i'm Jewish, though i'm questioning my beliefs and if anything i'm probably Agnostic.

the thing most people hate about religion is how a lot of extremists of certain religions try to shove their beliefs down others' throats. basically part of the reason alot of people are athiest is because of that, but then if an athiest tries to preach his beliefs on everyone else chances are he's contradicting himself. . i respect all peoples' beliefs, but what i don't respect is when people of certain religions try to tell everyone else that their only acceptable religion is their own.

if i was God, i would be perfectly happy if someone believed in me in general. i wouldn't send someone to hell for not picking the 'correct' religion.

okay well i'm Jewish, though i'm questioning my beliefs and if anything i'm probably Agnostic.

the thing most people hate about religion is how a lot of extremists of certain religions try to shove their beliefs down others' throats. basically part of the reason alot of people are athiest is because of that, but then if an athiest tries to preach his beliefs on everyone else chances are he's contradicting himself. . i respect all peoples' beliefs, but what i don't respect is when people of certain religions try to tell everyone else that their only acceptable religion is their own.

if i was God, i would be perfectly happy if someone believed in me in general. i wouldn't send someone to hell for not picking the 'correct' religion.

Ms_Lockheart

Well, I'd say what bothers me most about religion, is that many ask you give up pleasures in this world on the false promise of pleasures in the next. Some so extreme they blow themselves up. And for what? What if they were wrong? You miss out on all the good times you could have had while you were here. Mormon's and they're crazy standard issue underwear and no caffeine... Islam and they're praying 402 times a day and covering their women from head to finger to toe.... Every religion asks sacrifice, and for nothing but a promise in return.

If there is a God, I just hope he's not a dick. I made my decision the best I could based on what I could comprehend with the tools he gave me, and if there's one thing I'm certain of, if he's there, no religion or man has any idea what he's about, what he wants, or why he does it. He'd be beyond our comprehension.

Because your friends are believing in what is logical.needled24-7

You mean not logical.

okay well i'm Jewish, though i'm questioning my beliefs and if anything i'm probably Agnostic.

the thing most people hate about religion is how a lot of extremists of certain religions try to shove their beliefs down others' throats. basically part of the reason alot of people are athiest is because of that, but then if an athiest tries to preach his beliefs on everyone else chances are he's contradicting himself. . i respect all peoples' beliefs, but what i don't respect is when people of certain religions try to tell everyone else that their only acceptable religion is their own.

if i was God, i would be perfectly happy if someone believed in me in general. i wouldn't send someone to hell for not picking the 'correct' religion.

Ms_Lockheart

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]Because your friends are believing in what is logical.jd7-03

You mean not logical.

[QUOTE="Ms_Lockheart"]

okay well i'm Jewish, though i'm questioning my beliefs and if anything i'm probably Agnostic.

the thing most people hate about religion is how a lot of extremists of certain religions try to shove their beliefs down others' throats. basically part of the reason alot of people are athiest is because of that, but then if an athiest tries to preach his beliefs on everyone else chances are he's contradicting himself. . i respect all peoples' beliefs, but what i don't respect is when people of certain religions try to tell everyone else that their only acceptable religion is their own.

if i was God, i would be perfectly happy if someone believed in me in general. i wouldn't send someone to hell for not picking the 'correct' religion.

antonius05

Case in point.

"I am christian, and I do beleive Christians going to heaven (not catholics, meh their own little religion)"

Immediately contradicted by:

"but I can't prove it because I have never been to heaven, so who knows how it works out, we won't find out untill we die."

You say the words, but you have no idea what they mean.

How do you know you're going to Heaven? Or that Catholics aren't? How do you know you aren't going to hell because you were a part of a religion at all, and God detest people claiming they know his intentions and law?

The point is, and you said it, you know nothing. Might as well not think about religion or God at all, let alone defend a belief in a religious structure, and just wait to find out.

Enjoy yourself with out religious dogma getting in your way.

[QUOTE="jd7-03"]

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]Because your friends are believing in what is logical.mig_killer2

You mean not logical.

We've already been through this.:|

Lord Mordain, I have an answer for you.

1) You quoted me twice

2) Its what I beleive... thats what religion is.....

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="jd7-03"]

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]Because your friends are believing in what is logical.Silver_Dragon17

You mean not logical.

We've already been through this.:|

No, you just claimed that it's illogical and nobody agreed with you.

Lord Mordain, I have an answer for you.

1) You quoted me twice

2) Its what I beleive... thats what religion is.....

antonius05

All I can say is, that is mankind's loss.

[QUOTE="antonius05"]

Lord Mordain, I have an answer for you.

1) You quoted me twice

2) Its what I beleive... thats what religion is.....

lord_mordain

All I can say is, that is mankind's loss.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="jd7-03"]

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]Because your friends are believing in what is logical.Zagrius

You mean not logical.

We've already been through this.:|

No, you just claimed that it's illogical and nobody agreed with you.

All right, why do you not believe in God?

[QUOTE="lord_mordain"][QUOTE="antonius05"]

Lord Mordain, I have an answer for you.

1) You quoted me twice

2) Its what I beleive... thats what religion is.....

antonius05

All I can say is, that is mankind's loss.

And I've made the heads of many Christian and Mormon chuches very silent.

It's not that I don't respect a belief in God, or Gods, or "Higher Being" for that matter.

I just don't respect anyone that thinks they know what God is.

I don't know who or what god is, because I have never been to heaven or met him, but its what I beleive that matters.antonius05

What makes your beliefs matter? What do you use to measure their worth?

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="jd7-03"]

[QUOTE="needled24-7"]Because your friends are believing in what is logical.Silver_Dragon17

You mean not logical.

We've already been through this.:|

No, you just claimed that it's illogical and nobody agreed with you.

All right, why do you not believe in God?

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

[QUOTE="antonius05"]I don't know who or what god is, because I have never been to heaven or met him, but its what I beleive that matters.lord_mordain

What makes your beliefs matter? What do you use to measure their worth?

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

Zagrius

So, you're saying that there is no evidence for God?

[QUOTE="lord_mordain"]

[QUOTE="antonius05"]I don't know who or what god is, because I have never been to heaven or met him, but its what I beleive that matters.antonius05

What makes your beliefs matter? What do you use to measure their worth?

If that's true, why did you make this thread?

I myself have never created this topic, aside from it being over done, it's just not important to me.

It's important to you though, and I suspect, you do in fact question your faith.

You feel guilty cause of it, perhaps you want someone to tell you it's ok, or maybe that it's not ok so you can reaffirm it.

But the thing is, you question it don't you?

Nothing, its just what I beleif, that simple.antonius05

This is fine. However, you should have no reason to practice such beliefs such that it negatively affects other people. There's no difference between you worshipping YWHW or Hanuman the monkey god. Both are about as real as each other, but so long as you keep your private beliefs private, then nobody should know enough to care.

It's when that line is crossed that it becomes a problem. Worship Aliens, Dragons or the great Chtulu. It makes no difference, just don't ever cross a private religion with public state of affairs. Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny come out on their respective holidays and everyone realizes they don't exist, yet it doesn't stop the celebrations. The same should go for equally non-existent Gods, however religious organizations, groups and laymen tend to argue for special exceptions (typically for their own group only).

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

Silver_Dragon17

So, you're saying that there is no evidence for God?

Again, even if it's a supernatural being, not believing it exists because of lack of evidence isn't illogical. There's no reason to believe that God exists. Just because it's supernatural doesn't mean that I have to believe in it just in case. It's only logical to not believe in something that you have no reason to believe. Unless you can provide logical reasons?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

Zagrius

So, you're saying that there is no evidence for God?

Again, even if it's a supernatural being, not believing it exists because of lack of evidence isn't illogical. There's no reason to believe that God exists. Just because it's supernatural doesn't mean that I have to believe in it just in case. It's only logical to not believe in something that you have no reason to believe. Unless you can provide logical reasons?

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

antonius05

So, you're saying that there is no evidence for God?

Again, even if it's a supernatural being, not believing it exists because of lack of evidence isn't illogical. There's no reason to believe that God exists. Just because it's supernatural doesn't mean that I have to believe in it just in case. It's only logical to not believe in something that you have no reason to believe. Unless you can provide logical reasons?

and what evidence would that be? just wonderin.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

antonius05

So, you're saying that there is no evidence for God?

Again, even if it's a supernatural being, not believing it exists because of lack of evidence isn't illogical. There's no reason to believe that God exists. Just because it's supernatural doesn't mean that I have to believe in it just in case. It's only logical to not believe in something that you have no reason to believe. Unless you can provide logical reasons?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

Zagrius

So, you're saying that there is no evidence for God?

Again, even if it's a supernatural being, not believing it exists because of lack of evidence isn't illogical. There's no reason to believe that God exists. Just because it's supernatural doesn't mean that I have to believe in it just in case. It's only logical to not believe in something that you have no reason to believe. Unless you can provide logical reasons?

I never said you HAVE to believe in something that cannot be proven. But if, by definition, it is unprovable, then yes it is illogical to not believe in for lack of evidence. And then there's this. . .

As for logical reasons to believe, there's Pascal'S Wager, where if you're right, then I won't care, and if I'm right, you're in trouble.

Tell me, what logical reasons are there to NOT believe something that is supernatural? Other than the famous "no evidence" excuse?

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

Silver_Dragon17

So, you're saying that there is no evidence for God?

Again, even if it's a supernatural being, not believing it exists because of lack of evidence isn't illogical. There's no reason to believe that God exists. Just because it's supernatural doesn't mean that I have to believe in it just in case. It's only logical to not believe in something that you have no reason to believe. Unless you can provide logical reasons?

I never said you HAVE to believe in something that cannot be proven. But if, by definition, it is unprovable, then yes it is illogical to not believe in for lack of evidence. And then there's this. . .

As for logical reasons to believe, there's Pascal'S Wager, where if you're right, then I won't care, and if I'm right, you're in trouble.

Tell me, what logical reasons are there to NOT believe something that is supernatural? Other than the famous "no evidence" excuse?

Just because you decided it's illogical doesn't make it so. You don't need reasons to not believe in something, just like you don't need a beverage to not drink. There's no supernatural phenomena which is known to exist. Even if it's super-natural, it could leave physical evidence (for instance, if magic was real, you would be able to see people hurling fireballs and levitating and doing all sorts of crazy things which break the laws of physics, and if those fireballs hit something you would be able to tell that whatever it was was scorched/burned/whatever).

Just because you decided it's illogical doesn't make it so. You don't need reasons to not believe in something, just like you don't need a beverage to not drink. There's no supernatural phenomena which is known to exist. Even if it's super-natural, it could leave physical evidence (for instance, if magic was real, you would be able to see people hurling fireballs and levitating and doing all sorts of crazy things which break the laws of physics, and if those fireballs hit something you would be able to tell that whatever it was was scorched/burned/whatever).

Zagrius

I didn't decide it's illogical; I gave logical reasons as to why it is illogical.

"You don't need reasons to not believe in something" Yes you do.:| Otherwise, it is--surprise!--illogical.;) Unless you want to admit that belief in something without reason is also logical. Then I'll conciede.

It could leave physical evidence? Then that evidence would have to be natural, and thus would be able to be interpreted in many different, natural ways, without the original cause ever being needed.

I never said you HAVE to believe in something that cannot be proven. But if, by definition, it is unprovable, then yes it is illogical to not believe in for lack of evidence. And then there's this. . .

As for logical reasons to believe, there's Pascal'S Wager, where if you're right, then I won't care, and if I'm right, you're in trouble.

Tell me, what logical reasons are there to NOT believe something that is supernatural? Other than the famous "no evidence" excuse?

Silver_Dragon17

That quiz is pretty nonsensical. How exactly is someone supposed to estimate information with regards to totality? Not enough thought was spent on it, which I have to say is a common element in sites like that.

I'd like to also point out that Pascals Wager in effect means that you have to worship all forms of God wherein there is divine punishment to non-believers. Given that several of these punishment religions are exclusive, then by virtue of Pascals Wager, there is no safe choice to be made. Believing in any God has the same consequence as not believing in any God. In addition, the Wager can also be inverted with the same logical truth, thus creating the Atheistic version of the wager.

Furthermore, "no evidence" is not an excuse. It's a legitimate recourse when faced with reality.I serously doubt you believe in everything without evidence, and God is not a special consideration.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Because there's no reason to believe in God. There's a chance that perhaps a god-like being exists which created the universe, but even then it doesn't have to be the one depicted in the Testaments or the Quran. Even then, it doesn't show itself, so there's no reason to believe it's there to show itself.

Silver_Dragon17

So, you're saying that there is no evidence for God?

Again, even if it's a supernatural being, not believing it exists because of lack of evidence isn't illogical. There's no reason to believe that God exists. Just because it's supernatural doesn't mean that I have to believe in it just in case. It's only logical to not believe in something that you have no reason to believe. Unless you can provide logical reasons?

I never said you HAVE to believe in something that cannot be proven. But if, by definition, it is unprovable, then yes it is illogical to not believe in for lack of evidence. And then there's this. . .

As for logical reasons to believe, there's Pascal'S Wager, where if you're right, then I won't care, and if I'm right, you're in trouble.

Tell me, what logical reasons are there to NOT believe something that is supernatural? Other than the famous "no evidence" excuse?

Pascal's wager was made under the idea that there are 2 religions in this world. Christianity, and athiesm. that philosophy doesn't factor in the countless other religions out there.

lets say you're worshipping the wrong god. then you'll end up in some other religion's hell or worse be reincarnated as a dung beetle:(

To me , the thing thats unprovable by atheists is how the world was created.antonius05

[QUOTE="antonius05"]To me , the thing thats unprovable by atheists is how the world was created.mig_killer2

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="antonius05"]To me , the thing thats unprovable by atheists is how the world was created.antonius05

[QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="Anamosa41"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

[QUOTE="Anamosa41"]I mean Battlecry. Although now that you brought it up, why don't you tell me both?Anamosa41

It might be that Battlecry calls for action against corporations and popular trends, but doesn't realize that these things (as well as their right to protest) are protected under the Constitution, and if they don't want their kids being exposed to things they don't deem appropriate, don't let them be exposed.

Then don't watch stuff that you don't want to see. Switch the channel, read something else, get some pop up blockers. :|

You know, some of us don't want all of this god and jesus stuff shoved in OUR faces everyday either, but in a country that has freedom of speech I'm afraid that you and I are going to see and hear things that we don't want to.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

I never said you HAVE to believe in something that cannot be proven. But if, by definition, it is unprovable, then yes it is illogical to not believe in for lack of evidence. And then there's this. . .

As for logical reasons to believe, there's Pascal'S Wager, where if you're right, then I won't care, and if I'm right, you're in trouble.

Tell me, what logical reasons are there to NOT believe something that is supernatural? Other than the famous "no evidence" excuse?

Atrus

That quiz is pretty nonsensical. How exactly is someone supposed to estimate information with regards to totality? Not enough thought was spent on it, which I have to say is a common element in sites like that.

I'd like to also point out that Pascals Wager in effect means that you have to worship all forms of God wherein there is divine punishment to non-believers. Given that several of these punishment religions are exclusive, then by virtue of Pascals Wager, there is no safe choice to be made. Believing in any God has the same consequence as not believing in any God. In addition, the Wager can also be inverted with the same logical truth, thus creating the Atheistic version of the wager.

Furthermore, "no evidence" is not an excuse. It's a legitimate recourse when faced with reality.I serously doubt you believe in everything without evidence, and God is not a special consideration.

I merely threw in the site for giggles. . .

What religions other than Christianity demand mutual worship? As far as I know, Islam relies on good deeds, and Judaism doesn't have a hell. Other religions have reincarnation, etc.

Not with the supernatural. I don't believe in everything without evidence, because most of the things that I can or cannot believe in are of the natural realm, and thus can be scientifically tested. Such as aliens. God most certainly is special.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Just because you decided it's illogical doesn't make it so. You don't need reasons to not believe in something, just like you don't need a beverage to not drink. There's no supernatural phenomena which is known to exist. Even if it's super-natural, it could leave physical evidence (for instance, if magic was real, you would be able to see people hurling fireballs and levitating and doing all sorts of crazy things which break the laws of physics, and if those fireballs hit something you would be able to tell that whatever it was was scorched/burned/whatever).

Silver_Dragon17

I didn't decide it's illogical; I gave logical reasons as to why it is illogical.

"You don't need reasons to not believe in something" Yes you do.:| Otherwise, it is--surprise!--illogical.;) Unless you want to admit that belief in something without reason is also logical. Then I'll conciede.

It could leave physical evidence? Then that evidence would have to be natural, and thus would be able to be interpreted in many different, natural ways, without the original cause ever being needed.

No, you don't need a reason to not believe in something. If you ask a person "do you believe in the boogie-man?" and he says "no", then is he being illogical? It's a supernatural being after all. By your reasoning, everyone is illogical. If that's what you want, then go ahead, claim that there's no logical choice and be done with it. Of course, that means, that being illogical yourself, all your "logical" reasons are also illogical as they come from your illogical mind, making your whole arguement moot.

There is no reason to believe in something that is outside of nature. Would you be surprised if I said that I thought that your reasoning's logic is faulty (not to mention that it limits your omnipotent God as you claim here that it can't leave scientific evidence)?

hmmmm....

I wonder why you haven't answered my last question, antonius05....

[QUOTE="mig_killer2"][QUOTE="antonius05"]To me , the thing thats unprovable by atheists is how the world was created.antonius05

Vacuum Fluctuation

This theory's pretty cool.

[QUOTE="antonius05"]To me , the thing thats unprovable by atheists is how the world was created.mig_killer2

As far as we know, mig, God's existence cannot be proven. Anything that we could possibly use as evidence would be of the natural realm, and thus would be interpreted by natural means, and then God would be discarded from it. It's like something I once saw: A man was talking to a woman about God. The man put a glass of water on the table, and shouted at the cieling "All right God! Knock over this simple glass of water, and I'll believe in you forever!" The woman merely said "Even if He does decide to knock over your water, you will find a rational explaination for it, then claim that God had nothing to do with it." In an outrage, the man stood up. . .and knocked over the glass of water. He looked at the woman for a good few seconds, and left.

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]

Just because you decided it's illogical doesn't make it so. You don't need reasons to not believe in something, just like you don't need a beverage to not drink. There's no supernatural phenomena which is known to exist. Even if it's super-natural, it could leave physical evidence (for instance, if magic was real, you would be able to see people hurling fireballs and levitating and doing all sorts of crazy things which break the laws of physics, and if those fireballs hit something you would be able to tell that whatever it was was scorched/burned/whatever).

Silver_Dragon17

I didn't decide it's illogical; I gave logical reasons as to why it is illogical.

"You don't need reasons to not believe in something" Yes you do.:| Otherwise, it is--surprise!--illogical.;) Unless you want to admit that belief in something without reason is also logical. Then I'll conciede.

It could leave physical evidence? Then that evidence would have to be natural, and thus would be able to be interpreted in many different, natural ways, without the original cause ever being needed.

Sorry bro, even if I don't possess all the knowledge in the universe, why do I need think he exists just because we don't know everything to be known? Not only thats idiotic, but it's also smartassed too. Why believe in him if he has not influence in our reality? You guys are just wasting your lives with false beliefs because your mommies and daddies were taught to believe in god, just like you guys. And you're too stubborn to admit it.