atheist, agnostic or religious?

[QUOTE="xMOBSTER23x"][QUOTE="Silverbond"]

 

Apparently, God always was.

Silverbond

There's no logic or science for that to make any sense. There are so many other theories people can come up with, why does "God" always have to be the only one?

I never said I agreed with that.

I never said I thought you did. Just making a point.

Anyone who does not claim to know absolutely whether a deity exists is agnostic. (aka strong a/theist)

Putting agnostic into its own category does not make sense in this regard. Gnosticism and agnosticism are  claiming to know or not being able to know, while theism and atheism are beliefs in the existence or nonexistence of deities.

Many of you are agnostic theists or agnostic atheists.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"] there is no difference, every creation in this world has a creator even if this creation doesn't mean anything or silly, it doesn't matter how big or small the creation is, what matters most is my point, there is a creator for every creation.

Why must the creator be intelligent?

Because the universe, humans and all creatures are complicated, the more complicated the creation is, the more intelligent the creator must be.

The creator of a table is not like the creator of a car or a theory.

HAZE-Unit

As for the claim that the more complicated something is, the more intelligent the creator must be... prove it.

Ok so you are saying it is usually and obvious for you things within the universe have a creator yet at the same time it is not obvious for you there is something created you, me and the universe? thats why in my OP I said it's that simple, if you believe and agree with me on the usually then why you believe with the so called spontaneous, there is no coincidences, a car cannot appear suddenly with out any reason, there is a manufacturer which "created" the car, the same thing goes for the cat, there is something created the cat, we have minds so we could think and ask, there must be a creator? if a car does have then there must be a creator for this cat also?

Let me do the honor to prove it, just like I said, a creator of a table is not as intelligent/complicated as creator of something more complicated, let alone the unviverse.

I'm not quite sure what I am at this point. I want to belive, but can't bring my self to do it. Cube_of_MooN

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Oh, usually, things within this universe have a creator. But in quantum physics, even nothingitself is unstable: a cat could suddently appear in front of you. It needs no creator. The universe, similarly, could have been spontaneous. Unless you can prove otherwise?

As for the claim that the more complicated something is, the more intelligent the creator must be... prove it.

Funky_Llama

Ok so you are saying it is usually and obvious for you things within the universe have a creator yet at the same time it is not obvious for you there is something created you, me and the universe? thats why in my OP I said it's that simple, if you believe and agree with me on the usually then why you believe with the so called spontaneous, there is no coincidences, a car cannot appear suddenly with out any reason, there is a manufacturer which "created" the car, the same thing goes for the cat, there is something created the cat, we have minds so we could think and ask, there must be a creator? if a car does have then there must be a creator for this cat also?

Let me do the honor to prove it, just like I said, a creator of a table is not as intelligent/complicated as creator of something more complicated, let alone the unviverse.

Ask yourself this question , why do a universe exists?

The universe is one of the biggest proofs of existing deity, a god. and the overall meaning of the universe is the management.

Management necessarily requires the existence of organized systems. And the universe is a very orginized basis because it shows a good arrangement, installation and purpose in everything. Which indicates a sane might that orginized this systems. This organism is God.

All of you who chose Atheist, need to join our Union.  Now.  

Thanks :D

All of you who chose Atheist, need to join our Union.  Now.  

 

Thanks :D

SimpJee

I second this sentiment.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

 

Ok so you are saying it is usually and obvious for you things within the universe have a creator yet at the same time it is not obvious for you there is something created you, me and the universe? thats why in my OP I said it's that simple, if you believe and agree with me on the usually then why you believe with the so called spontaneous, there is no coincidences, a car cannot appear suddenly with out any reason, there is a manufacturer which "created" the car, the same thing goes for the cat, there is something created the cat, we have minds so we could think and ask, there must be a creator? if a car does have then there must be a creator for this cat also?

Let me do the honor to prove it, just like I said, a creator of a table is not as intelligent/complicated as creator of something more complicated, let alone the unviverse.

 

HAZE-Unit

Ask yourself this question , why do a universe exists?

The universe is one of the biggest proofs of existing deity, a god. and the overall meaning of the universe is the management.

Management necessarily requires the existence of organized systems. And the universe is a very orginized basis because it shows a good arrangement, installation and purpose in everything. Which indicates a sane might that orginized this systems. This organism is God.

So I guess the millions of galaxies which have absolutely no chance of ever baring carbon-based lifeforms due to cosmic radiation, immense black holes, etc. are all examples of an organized universe as well? You can't take one side of the story and ignore the rest: "three kids in my flat died today due to a fire, but what a miracle it is that the fire didn't claim my life!" kind of thinking.

And as to your rhetorical question, there is no why. It just is. The universe doesn't care if it exists or not, similarly to its indifference to your existence.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]:roll: Prove that the universe couldn't have come to exist spontaneously.MindFreeze

Ask yourself this question , why do a universe exists?

The universe is one of the biggest proofs of existing deity, a god. and the overall meaning of the universe is the management.

Management necessarily requires the existence of organized systems. And the universe is a very orginized basis because it shows a good arrangement, installation and purpose in everything. Which indicates a sane might that orginized this systems. This organism is God.

So I guess the millions of galaxies which have absolutely no chance of ever baring carbon-based lifeforms due to cosmic radiation, immense black holes, etc. are all examples of an organized universe as well? You can't take one side of the story and ignore the rest: "three kids in my flat died today due to a fire, but what a miracle it is that the fire didn't claim my life!" kind of thinking.

And as to your rhetorical question, there is no why. It just is. The universe doesn't care if it exists or not, similarly to its indifference to your existence.

I was talking about our universe and I will bring an example of how orginized our universe is.

The eye, for instance, is complete than all examination instruments ever produced, in compatibility for the light laws, as it has nerves widespread across its retina to sense lights and colors and the light enters the eye from the iris, and it constricts if light increased and widen if decreased, the iris operates automatically, without submission to the will, for the sole proprose for eyesight adjustment.

If light enters a hole, it is not enough to draw pictures and clear visual fee, but must be passed in order to develop convex break-ray and congregate in the center.These two conditions are provided in the eye.

I could go on explaining about how the eyes works but I think you got the picture of what I meant by my original post and this is only one example of millions of other examples.

That being said I will go back to your original question and I hope my answer pleases you also.

Astronomical evidence of the existence of a creator of a great sane might capable are too many to mention. But I recall that Watching the greatness of this universe, the divine life of celestial which can not be counted, the turn-around uniformly Astronomy in one century after century and it's speed, and the balancing Between the two driving forces of gravity in space is something extraordinary.

Maybe this whole universe is created to protect us from alot of dangers. ;)

I was talking about our universe and I will bring an example of how orginized our universe is.

The eye, for instance, is complete than all examination instruments ever produced, in compatibility for the light laws, as it has nerves widespread across its retina to sense lights and colors and the light enters the eye from the iris, and it constricts if light increased and widen if decreased, the iris operates automatically, without submission to the will, for the sole proprose for eyesight adjustment.

If light enters a hole, it is not enough to draw pictures and clear visual fee, but must be passed in order to develop convex break-ray and congregate in the center.These two conditions are provided in the eye.

I could go on explaining about how the eyes works but I think you got the picture of what I meant by my original post and this is only one example of millions of other examples.

That being said I will go back to your original question and I hope my answer pleases you also.

Astronomical evidence of the existence of a creator of a great sane might capable are too many to mention. But I recall that Watching the greatness of this universe, the divine life of celestial which can not be counted, the turn-around uniformly Astronomy in one century after century and it's speed, and the balancing Between the two driving forces of gravity in space is something extraordinary.

Maybe this whole universe is created to protect us from alot of dangers. ;)

HAZE-Unit

:roll: Prove that the universe couldn't have come to exist spontaneously.Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

I was talking about our universe and I will bring an example of how orginized our universe is.

The eye, for instance, is complete than all examination instruments ever produced, in compatibility for the light laws, as it has nerves widespread across its retina to sense lights and colors and the light enters the eye from the iris, and it constricts if light increased and widen if decreased, the iris operates automatically, without submission to the will, for the sole proprose for eyesight adjustment.

If light enters a hole, it is not enough to draw pictures and clear visual fee, but must be passed in order to develop convex break-ray and congregate in the center.These two conditions are provided in the eye.

I could go on explaining about how the eyes works but I think you got the picture of what I meant by my original post and this is only one example of millions of other examples.

That being said I will go back to your original question and I hope my answer pleases you also.

Astronomical evidence of the existence of a creator of a great sane might capable are too many to mention. But I recall that Watching the greatness of this universe, the divine life of celestial which can not be counted, the turn-around uniformly Astronomy in one century after century and it's speed, and the balancing Between the two driving forces of gravity in space is something extraordinary.

Maybe this whole universe is created to protect us from alot of dangers. ;)

DeeJayInphinity

:roll: Prove that the universe couldn't have come to exist spontaneously.Funky_Llama

1- I give up, I've explained alot and my head will explode :P

seriously though, what exactly I didn't prove yet, I've answered every question with logical answers :cry:

2- Do you mean Im wrong here also? :cry:

1- I give up, I've explained alot and my head will explode :P

seriously though, what exactly I didn't prove yet, I've answered every question with logical answers :cry:

2- Do you mean Im wrong here also? :cry:

HAZE-Unit

The story of Jesus Christ is a metaphor for the movements of the Sun. Its so blantant. Also, many other prophets have the same story and characteristics as him, yet he is accepted as the one and only, the lamb of god, the light of god. The bible is filled with metaphors and stories that aren't meant to be taken literally, but rather to be read so that you receive a moral. There aren't even any historians around the time of jesus that wrote about him; you think someone that performs miracles will be written about. The Bible's commandments are straight from the Book of the Dead(in ancient Egypt). The continued translations of the Bible have also done it a great injustice, because it has been manipulated as a document to control the people rather than to set them free. Although, this is not to say that God does not exist.

The Plight of these peoples is that they can understand the good things the Bible is telling them, but they cannot see what is metaphorical or false (when literally translated).

"The christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun. "

-Thomas Paine in An Essay on the Origin of Free-Masonry (1803-1805); found in manuscript form after Paine's death and thought to have been written for an intended part III of The Age of Reason. It was partially published in 1810 and published in its entirety in 1818.

The thing is, atheistic people do themselves a greater injustice. You understand the aspects of the Bible and other religions that are false, yet you cannot find those things that are true. It would be very challenging to do yourself a greater harm than this. Instead of pleasing the three (mind, soul, and body), you choose to please the 5 (senses). You are overly based on the here and now, and don't understand metaphysical concepts. You have a very strong grasp of words like impossible and possible - these words that I have no comprehension of. When you deny yourself of your soul and the understanding that you are part of God, you deny yourself of part of your existence, and this is dangerous.

To stand back and watch the arguments fueding between theist and atheists is also a great injustice. You choose not to have much insight at all on the truths and misconceptions of both ideals. The modern agnostic seems like a product of American democracy. People have a right to their opinion so it doesn't matter what they say right? It also makes it easy on you, because you "can't" prove god wrong or right....right? lol.

The thing is, atheistic people do themselves a greater injustice. You understand the aspects of the Bible and other religions that are false, yet you cannot find those things that are true. It would be very challenging to do yourself a greater harm than this. Instead of pleasing the three (mind, soul, and body), you choose to please the 5 (senses). You are overly based on the here and now, and don't understand metaphysical concepts. You have a very strong grasp of words like impossible and possible - these words that I have no comprehension of. When you deny yourself of your soul and the understanding that you are part of God, you deny yourself of part of your existence, and this is dangerous.

OptimusLupus

[QUOTE="Cube_of_MooN"]I'm not quite sure what I am at this point. I want to belive, but can't bring my self to do it. Funky_Llama

 The bible is filled with metaphors and stories that aren't meant to be taken literally, but rather to be read so that you receive a moral.

 

OptimusLupus

The problem becomes of course, decoding which is literal, and which is metaphorical.

[QUOTE="MindFreeze"][QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

Ask yourself this question , why do a universe exists?

The universe is one of the biggest proofs of existing deity, a god. and the overall meaning of the universe is the management.

Management necessarily requires the existence of organized systems. And the universe is a very orginized basis because it shows a good arrangement, installation and purpose in everything. Which indicates a sane might that orginized this systems. This organism is God.

HAZE-Unit

So I guess the millions of galaxies which have absolutely no chance of ever baring carbon-based lifeforms due to cosmic radiation, immense black holes, etc. are all examples of an organized universe as well? You can't take one side of the story and ignore the rest: "three kids in my flat died today due to a fire, but what a miracle it is that the fire didn't claim my life!" kind of thinking.

And as to your rhetorical question, there is no why. It just is. The universe doesn't care if it exists or not, similarly to its indifference to your existence.

I was talking about our universe and I will bring an example of how orginized our universe is.

The eye, for instance, is complete than all examination instruments ever produced, in compatibility for the light laws, as it has nerves widespread across its retina to sense lights and colors and the light enters the eye from the iris, and it constricts if light increased and widen if decreased, the iris operates automatically, without submission to the will, for the sole proprose for eyesight adjustment.

If light enters a hole, it is not enough to draw pictures and clear visual fee, but must be passed in order to develop convex break-ray and congregate in the center.These two conditions are provided in the eye.

I could go on explaining about how the eyes works but I think you got the picture of what I meant by my original post and this is only one example of millions of other examples.

That being said I will go back to your original question and I hope my answer pleases you also.

Astronomical evidence of the existence of a creator of a great sane might capable are too many to mention. But I recall that Watching the greatness of this universe, the divine life of celestial which can not be counted, the turn-around uniformly Astronomy in one century after century and it's speed, and the balancing Between the two driving forces of gravity in space is something extraordinary.

Maybe this whole universe is created to protect us from alot of dangers. ;)

All you've been doing is ramble on, and honestly I have no clue what you are saying half the time. You tried to explain to me the way an eye works. Well thanks, but that only proves that our eyes work for what they are intented to do. It isn't helping your argument in any way. Saying there is 'so much evidence', but then say the reason you aren't showing it is that there is too much to mention, is also known as BS.

I realize you were talking about our universe. Those galaxies I was talking about are in that same universe.

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"][QUOTE="MindFreeze"]

So I guess the millions of galaxies which have absolutely no chance of ever baring carbon-based lifeforms due to cosmic radiation, immense black holes, etc. are all examples of an organized universe as well? You can't take one side of the story and ignore the rest: "three kids in my flat died today due to a fire, but what a miracle it is that the fire didn't claim my life!" kind of thinking.

And as to your rhetorical question, there is no why. It just is. The universe doesn't care if it exists or not, similarly to its indifference to your existence.

MindFreeze

I was talking about our universe and I will bring an example of how orginized our universe is.

The eye, for instance, is complete than all examination instruments ever produced, in compatibility for the light laws, as it has nerves widespread across its retina to sense lights and colors and the light enters the eye from the iris, and it constricts if light increased and widen if decreased, the iris operates automatically, without submission to the will, for the sole proprose for eyesight adjustment.

If light enters a hole, it is not enough to draw pictures and clear visual fee, but must be passed in order to develop convex break-ray and congregate in the center.These two conditions are provided in the eye.

I could go on explaining about how the eyes works but I think you got the picture of what I meant by my original post and this is only one example of millions of other examples.

That being said I will go back to your original question and I hope my answer pleases you also.

Astronomical evidence of the existence of a creator of a great sane might capable are too many to mention. But I recall that Watching the greatness of this universe, the divine life of celestial which can not be counted, the turn-around uniformly Astronomy in one century after century and it's speed, and the balancing Between the two driving forces of gravity in space is something extraordinary.

Maybe this whole universe is created to protect us from alot of dangers. ;)

All you've been doing is ramble on, and honestly I have no clue what you are saying half the time. You tried to explain to me the way an eye works. Well thanks, but that only proves that our eyes work for what they are intented to do. It isn't helping your argument in any way. Saying there is 'so much evidence', but then say the reason you aren't showing it is that there is too much to mention, is also known as BS.

I realize you were talking about our universe. Those galaxies I was talking about are in that same universe.

I was talking about how organized our universe is and how it works, from small things like the eye then went on and showed you my perspective of what you said about the universe and how it is obvious there is something extraordinary managing all of these things and combining it all together for our sake to see and think and know, was that what you asked me about? correct me if Im wrong.

I was not bsing, just having a great time talking with you guys but you seem in a bad mood or something.

I was talking about how organized our universe is and how it works, from small things like the eye then went on and showed you my perspective of what you said about the universe and how it is obvious there is something extraordinary managing all of these things and combining it all together for our sake to see and think and know, was that what you asked me about? correct me if Im wrong.

I was not bsing, just having a great time talking with you guys but you seem in a bad mood or something.

HAZE-Unit

Believe in God, don't practice religion though I was born Christian.Tsunami23

Your not born a christian.

[QUOTE="Tsunami23"]Believe in God, don't practice religion though I was born Christian.123625

Your not born a christian.

My parents were Christian, and I was baptized as a baby.  I don't care about technicalities; if you want to be a nitpick then fine, I was raised a Christian.

[QUOTE="OptimusLupus"]

The thing is, atheistic people do themselves a greater injustice. You understand the aspects of the Bible and other religions that are false, yet you cannot find those things that are true. It would be very challenging to do yourself a greater harm than this. Instead of pleasing the three (mind, soul, and body), you choose to please the 5 (senses). You are overly based on the here and now, and don't understand metaphysical concepts. You have a very strong grasp of words like impossible and possible - these words that I have no comprehension of. When you deny yourself of your soul and the understanding that you are part of God, you deny yourself of part of your existence, and this is dangerous.

DeeJayInphinity

To refuse the idea of God is to somewhat refuse the ideas of the metaphysical soul - because it is that very essence that connects you with God. You can't appease the body or mind alone and hope to be whole. The soul isn't something you "believe" in. Half of this argument stems from he corruption of free speech and belief ideals. Its almost like people don't have o work for their ideas and speech, they just have it. They say whatever, and others accept it as ok because it is their opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of America more than anyone can imagine - but the people of the country have corrupted its ideals.

I can't comprehend what goes through the mind when someone says someone who "believes" in the soul...I feel it inside of me and see it around me. It keeps me healthy and protects me from danger. It is as close to me as my skin. Those who appease the 5 have forgotton how to be nourished from respecting the three.

To refuse the idea of God is to somewhat refuse the ideas of the metaphysical soul - because it is that very essence that connects you with God. You can't appease the body or mind alone and hope to be whole. The soul isn't something you "believe" in. Half of this argument stems from he corruption of free speech and belief ideals. Its almost like people don't have o work for their ideas and speech, they just have it. They say whatever, and others accept it as ok because it is their opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of America more than anyone can imagine - but the people of the country have corrupted its ideals.

I can't comprehend what goes through the mind when someone says someone who "believes" in the soul...I feel it inside of me and see it around me. It keeps me healthy and protects me from danger. It is as close to me as my skin. Those who appease the 5 have forgotton how to be nourished from respecting the three.

OptimusLupus

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="OptimusLupus"]

The thing is, atheistic people do themselves a greater injustice. You understand the aspects of the Bible and other religions that are false, yet you cannot find those things that are true. It would be very challenging to do yourself a greater harm than this. Instead of pleasing the three (mind, soul, and body), you choose to please the 5 (senses). You are overly based on the here and now, and don't understand metaphysical concepts. You have a very strong grasp of words like impossible and possible - these words that I have no comprehension of. When you deny yourself of your soul and the understanding that you are part of God, you deny yourself of part of your existence, and this is dangerous.

OptimusLupus

To refuse the idea of God is to somewhat refuse the ideas of the metaphysical soul - because it is that very essence that connects you with God. You can't appease the body or mind alone and hope to be whole. The soul isn't something you "believe" in. Half of this argument stems from he corruption of free speech and belief ideals. Its almost like people don't have o work for their ideas and speech, they just have it. They say whatever, and others accept it as ok because it is their opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of America more than anyone can imagine - but the people of the country have corrupted its ideals.

I can't comprehend what goes through the mind when someone says someone who "believes" in the soul...I feel it inside of me and see it around me. It keeps me healthy and protects me from danger. It is as close to me as my skin. Those who appease the 5 have forgotton how to be nourished from respecting the three.

How does one respond to nonsense? Worse, how does one respond to nonsense when the spout of nonsense will almost assuredly claim that it wasn't nonsense, only my failure to grasp his meaning?

There is no proof of god. There is no proof of the soul. The soul can no more prove the existence of god than Frodo the Hobbit can prove the existence of Gandalf. What freedom of speech has to do with anything, I haven't the foggiest. Again, perhaps it's my inability to translate **** into English. If you see your soul around you in some sort of aura-like manifestation, you should seek professional psychiatric help... immedietely.

How does one respond to nonsense? Worse, how does one respond to nonsense when the spout of nonsense will almost assuredly claim that it wasn't nonsense, only my failure to grasp his meaning?

There is no proof of god. There is no proof of the soul. The soul can no more prove the existence of god than Frodo the Hobbit can prove the existence of Gandalf. What freedom of speech has to do with anything, I haven't the foggiest. Again, perhaps it's my inability to translate **** into English. If you see your soul around you in some sort of aura-like manifestation, you should seek professional psychiatric help... immedietely.

dsmccracken

To refuse the idea of God is to somewhat refuse the ideas of the metaphysical soul - because it is that very essence that connects you with God. Y

OptimusLupus

Not only is the idea of the soul not unique to Christianity, it is a part of several religions which predate Christianity.

[QUOTE="OptimusLupus"]

To refuse the idea of God is to somewhat refuse the ideas of the metaphysical soul - because it is that very essence that connects you with God. Y

Danm_999

Not only is the idea of the soul not unique to Christianity, it is a part of several religions which predate Christianity.

Further, almost every major tenet of the Christian Bible is shamelessly lifted from other regional religions of the day. From the Virgin birth to the resurrection, all of it comes from sources which predate Jesus.

The bible can't even agree with itself. Christians out there, raise your hands if you think that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Uh... nope. How about that virgin birth? The prophecies that "indicate" that Jesus was the Messiah partially hinged on him being descended from King David (through his father Joseph), yet if it was an immaculate conception, that would mean that Jesus possessed ZERO DNA from Joseph and was therefore not descended from David... prophecy broken. There is so much crap like this in the Bible, it's an embarassment.

As if I am even talking about only Christianity. -.- Christianity is based on so many religions before it anyway...

God isn't some guy that made us and left or made us and watches over us. The idea of God doesn't even have to do with anything concerning the origins of man. God is simply a total being that is "perfect". I think Anselm coined the main definition of God when he called it, "something-that-which-nothing-greater-can-be-thought". If God were to be missing just a single peice of our universe would he be perfect? If we are created in his image, and he is perfect,then our universe in its entirety is composed of everything God is. That isn't to say that God doesn't have more than our universe though, for our universe is infinitly expanding towards greater perfection - towards the idea of God. God is an idea.

There is proof of the soul, you just don't see it yet...you have once seen it. When you are a child you are more sensitive to your surroundings...some children see auras and colors...some have "night terrors". We have relinquished ourselves of the body mind and soul as we aged, and began to appease what is "palpable"...I think this stems from the need to maintain the body and physical existence. The thing is, we spend our entire lives trying to work back towards the three. We seek to love, create and think. Love nourishes the soul, creation nourishes our physical body, and our thoughts and need to have a legacy nourish our minds.

To understand that your soul is as much a part of you as your body and mind is very important, and you will begin to feel it again as soon as you make the step to acknowledge and listen to it. Words like impossible and possible shouldn't have a meaning to you because they don't exist. It should be a question of How?

We grow up and see people as being separate from us. one of the most invigorating things you can feel is when you are the same as someone else. God is the idea of being perfect, but to be perfect he needs all these inividual things present in our universe. Since God is perfect God has at least what we have, but notably more...because we are still growing. This is hard to understand when you view things as being different and separate from each other. How are we really different? We are all made of the same stuff and interconnected by energy and matter, what is it that makes someone and something else a separate being from us? The understanding of that which is essence in you, and that which is essence in me, and everything else is indeed one - is the idea that brings you closer to God. The idea that there is no other. To grasp this concept is to be moving towards God.

Yeah that's nice dude.. still no evidence of a soul.. or a god for that matter.DeeJayInphinity

I am trying to figure out how there isn't evidence for the universal struggle towards perfection....

God is an idea, and since I have just posted the idea... you have evidence thatthe idea exists.

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"]Yeah that's nice dude.. still no evidence of a soul.. or a god for that matter.OptimusLupus

I am trying to figure out how there isn't evidence for the universal struggle towards perfection....

[QUOTE="OptimusLupus"]

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"]Yeah that's nice dude.. still no evidence of a soul.. or a god for that matter.DeeJayInphinity

I am trying to figure out how there isn't evidence for the universal struggle towards perfection....

Well. I wish I had the power to show you your soul yourself, but that issomething that you will have to accept and it will reveal itself to you. Have you ever noticed by using different outlooks you notice different things - it will come in that sense.

You have accepted the idea of univeral strive towards perfection, that idea of striving towards what is God. Perhaps I can use your appeals to the body to show you the soul....

When you build a castle out of legos...you recognize that there are indeed legos that make up that castle. You don't however, call it a pile of legos....you refer to it as a castle. You have accepted the idea of the castle. Oh! but don't forget about the building blocks of the castle, if you were to accept the castle you can't say legos don't exist.

The soul is a lego that makes up the castle of perfection...You have accepted our strive towards being perfect - you must accept the soul. our souls are growing as well to help build it. We have grown extraordinarily as human beings.

That which is essence in one brick of the castle, is essence in another...they strive to build the castle. Woe is a world where the bricks argue over their petty differences.

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="OptimusLupus"] If you grew up never thinking you had a body, would you have one...or even the evidence? You would pay attention to different values.

 

I am trying to figure out how there isn't evidence for the universal struggle towards perfection....

OptimusLupus

Well. I wish I had the power to show you your soul yourself, but that issomething that you will have to accept and it will reveal itself to you. Have you ever noticed by using different outlooks you notice different things - it will come in that sense.

You have accepted the idea of univeral strive towards perfection, that idea of striving towards what is God. Perhaps I can use your appeals to the body to show you the soul....

When you build a castle out of legos...you recognize that there are indeed legos that make up that castle. You don't however, call it a pile of legos....you refer to it as a castle. You have accepted the idea of the castle. Oh! but don't forget about the building blocks of the castle, if you were to accept the castle you can't say legos don't exist.

The soul is a lego that makes up the castle of perfection...You have accepted our strive towards being perfect - you must accept the soul. our souls are growing as well to help build it. We have grown extraordinarily as human beings.

That which is essence in one brick of the castle, is essence in another...they strive to build the castle. Woe is a world where the bricks argue over their petty differences.

Let me re-valuate, I don't wish to type my entire feelings towards this perception but i will cut it down.

The soul seems to be something more of your desire. The mind is composed of your calculations. The body is your physical image.

Computers do not have desire, they only have calculaion...they have their minds.

Human beings consult their soul whether they see it or not. God is that idea of perfection, while your soul provides the building blocks, the desire to reach that goal. Your life isn't a chance to figure out what to be, or try to be someone, as many people think it is. Your life is a journey to figure out what you already are -what brick you are on the castle of God. You have the innate desires to do certain things, you are built to fill a certain niche. Of course you can mold yourself to do other things, but you are naturally affiliated with others.

Now. you seem to think that without physical evidence of the soul it cannot exist.

The glory of this fallacy is that you have not thought it through all the way. I should have brought this up earlier.

You prove things of phyical existence by looking at the physical world. Technically you cannot prove that your mind exist by looking at the physical world- and same with the soul.

If you can prove that your mind exists by physical evidence - hardcore palpable evidence.....then i will re-evaluate some of my ideas. Have fun.

You're just stalling. You have no evidence in favor of a soul and you're just trying to distract me from that fact right now. tsk tsk tskDeeJayInphinity

Are you having trouble? The fact of the matter i, you cannot prove your mind to exist by palpable evidence....this is why creationist cannot argue intellegent deisgn. Just because things look like they are they are made by an intellegent creator does not ofcourseprove that they are. it simply just means these palpable things exist i our physical world. Likewise you cannot prove that your body exist by only using the mind.

In this sense you cannot prove the soul either by looking at physical evidence, it is something that must be felt to be fully understood. Regardless of whether you see it or not, it will be there aiding you....but to work with it will bring you happiness and joy.

I'llletthe challenge stand for as long as you wish. If someone can prove the mind exists with only physical evidence, I will re-evaluate my ideas. The fact is that you cannot. You are looking in the wrong places for the wrong things. It is time humans reached another level of enlightenmen - the question is not if it is possible but it is How?

I feel rather bad that you have resulted to mocking me after Ihave answered all of your questions with your methods....especailly since you cannot even attempt to answer my question. Someone prove me wrong.

I'm a forumite who likes pointlessly argueing worldviews on the internet. I believe whatever you don't believe because there is no scientific evidence of it.