Atheists who live a good life donot deserve paradise just cuz of that!

This whole argument contrdicts Atheism.linkinpark494

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Being a muslim you are supposed to pray 5 times a day at different times.You have to perform wudu as well before every prayer using water.In this day and age with how busy and fast the world is,it is quite a task to offer all of your prayers everyday.

Then once a year,you have to observe fast everyday for a whole month.You have to abide by any unholy things during your fast or it wont have much meaning.

You also have to give obligatory charity called zakat once a year.There is a set guideline on that.

You are also not supposed to lie unless in extreme circumstances.You are not allowed to eat unbuthured animals,any intoxication is forbidden,all meat eating animals are forbidden.

You are not allowed to be friends with your opposite sex,you arent allowed to be physical with a member of the opposite sex unless you are married to them.

Tough eh now is it?

Thinker_reborn

Restrictive, not tough. There's a major difference.

I would rather use the term "more restritive" than tougher, but whatever floats your boat.

Just keep in mind though that you're voluntarily making your life more restrictive than it needs to be. Whether or not you think it makes you "tougher" is irrelevant, because many things in life can make living a chore as well. It's tough living life as a religious person, but it's also tough living life as a blind man or a paraplegic.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Satan creates these wants and that's our test.Thinker_reborn

So Satan is an intentional entity in God's so-called plan? God created Satan with the full intent of him trying to overthrow him, thereby sending him to Hell and using him as a punching bag for all the "don'ts" that God had threatened humanity with?

I know that, but you make it seem like God had it as his inner intentions all along to exile Satan from heaven. After all, God is omniscient, is he not? He would have known before-hand that he would bring about the ultimate evil upon his previously-perfect creation of a universe.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="SpaceMoose"] Why?

 

SpaceMoose

Why must there be every reason of His doings.He is God afterall no?

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Cuz He wanted to?Thinker_reborn

Why must there be every reason of His doings.He is God afterall no?

I just have a simple question for you TC.
Would a priest, who has dedicated his entire life to god and follows the customs of christianity but also happens to be a pedophile/ephibophile deserve a better paradise, than an athiest who spends his entire life helping people through charities, donations and general community work?
If thats the case, then I would never want to be part of the religion you are describing. It would seem that the God you are describing is a narcissist. He cares more about whether people praise him than the quality of their life. He puts worship over deeds, and thats very troubling :?II_Seraphim_II

Now this is getting ridiculous.Are you saying that an average athesist spends his "entire life" in charities,donations and community work?:lol:............:roll:

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]No God allowed satan to influence the human mind.Thinker_reborn

Satan actually challenged God and God said that you will not be able to lead my true believers astray.

jobs book is a story, not a fact. its what you can call... a description that following Gods way will ultimatedly lead to happiness.

then again, if youre not referring to jobs book, just ignore all this :D

Who knows?

 

Why must there be every reason of His doings.He is God afterall no?

Thinker_reborn

So you're saying God has no qualms sending a good person to an eternity of torture, upon reasons he created but doesn't know the meaning behind? I'm atheist but I think you're putting an extremely poor argument up for this.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Who knows?

 

Why must there be every reason of His doings.He is God afterall no?

AirGuitarist87

So you're saying God has no qualms sending a good person to an eternity of torture, upon reasons he created but doesn't know the meaning behind? I'm atheist but I think you're putting an extremely poor argument up for this.

I always hear this silly argument that atheists who live a good life and are good human beings should also go to paradise.Now why should they?What have they done to deserve it?

They lived a life their own way and they were good cuz they wanted to be.That way life was most enjoyable for them so they didnt sacrifice much by being good.And since when was religion only asking you to be good and not murder,rape etc?

You are also supposed to sacrifice the worldy pleasures that God has forbidden you like no sex before marriage,not eating/drinking stuff which is prohibited,spending some of your precious time in worshipping God and attending religious worships and I could go on with this.

Somebody who doesnt even have the heart to rape,rob or murder cannot be considered good for not doing such activities cuz he never had a choice.If someone geniounly finds peace and happiness in helping a poor and needy person then again they are not necessarily good for doing that cuz they did it for their own selfish reason.

Anyways while good athesists dont deserve the deepest fires of hell,they certainly dont deserve paradise either!! Thinker_reborn

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

I always hear this silly argument that atheists who live a good life and are good human beings should also go to paradise.Now why should they?What have they done to deserve it?

They lived a life their own way and they were good cuz they wanted to be.That way life was most enjoyable for them so they didnt sacrifice much by being good.And since when was religion only asking you to be good and not murder,rape etc?

You are also supposed to sacrifice the worldy pleasures that God has forbidden you like no sex before marriage,not eating/drinking stuff which is prohibited,spending some of your precious time in worshipping God and attending religious worships and I could go on with this.

Somebody who doesnt even have the heart to rape,rob or murder cannot be considered good for not doing such activities cuz he never had a choice.If someone geniounly finds peace and happiness in helping a poor and needy person then again they are not necessarily good for doing that cuz they did it for their own selfish reason.

Anyways while good athesists dont deserve the deepest fires of hell,they certainly dont deserve paradise either!! usaaaaaa

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Who knows?

 

Why must there be every reason of His doings.He is God afterall no?

biBLioTek

So you're saying God has no qualms sending a good person to an eternity of torture, upon reasons he created but doesn't know the meaning behind? I'm atheist but I think you're putting an extremely poor argument up for this.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"] Why?biBLioTek

Satan actually challenged God and God said that you will not be able to lead my true believers astray.

jobs book is a story, not a fact. its what you can call... a description that following Gods way will ultimatedly lead to happiness.

then again, if youre not referring to jobs book, just ignore all this :D

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Who knows?

 

Why must there be every reason of His doings.He is God afterall no?

biBLioTek

So you're saying God has no qualms sending a good person to an eternity of torture, upon reasons he created but doesn't know the meaning behind? I'm atheist but I think you're putting an extremely poor argument up for this.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Who knows?

 

Why must there be every reason of His doings.He is God afterall no?

AirGuitarist87

So you're saying God has no qualms sending a good person to an eternity of torture, upon reasons he created but doesn't know the meaning behind? I'm atheist but I think you're putting an extremely poor argument up for this.

And secondly you will get to meet God before going to paradise or hell.He will question you so dont worry you will have your say.

since ive never read the quaran (sorry if spelled wrong), i cant really debate much about this, but from what i learned from my friends that are muslims, its the overall perspective that counts. eating pig meat isnt a oneway ticket to hell, but being a generally bad person, to CHOOSE to do acts of evil is. therefore, i gotta say your arguments towards "atheist doesnt deserve to get to paradise" is an elitist attitude that provokes many.... and if i remember correctly, pride isnt valued in the islamic mindset.

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"][QUOTE="Silenthps"] .... i wasn't talking about what your talking about I was talking about what he was. Someone who understands the law of love wouldn't say that. And if you understood it you wouldn't have made that post either. Silenthps

Since the only way to save a life is the Gospel of Jesus I guess next time I see a house fire with people trapped inside I'll throw the bible at it. And then pray instead of calling the fire department. And instead of giving blood I'll just send them copies of the good book. That'll help when the surgery requires a blood transfusion right? I guess all these times I've been helping people out I was doing it the hard way tch who woulda thought it could be so easy as to hand someone a bible...

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Who knows?

 

Why must there be every reason of His doings.He is God afterall no?

Thinker_reborn

So you're saying God has no qualms sending a good person to an eternity of torture, upon reasons he created but doesn't know the meaning behind? I'm atheist but I think you're putting an extremely poor argument up for this.

And secondly you will get to meet God before going to paradise or hell.He will question you so dont worry you will have your say.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Bourbons3"] So someone who is evil, yet considers himself to love god, deserves to go to heaven over an atheist who donates billions of dollars to charity and saves hundreds of millions of lives over several years?euphzilla03

Since the only way to save a life is the Gospel of Jesus I guess next time I see a house fire with people trapped inside I'll throw the bible at it. And then pray instead of calling the fire department. And instead of giving blood I'll just send them copies of the good book. That'll help when the surgery requires a blood transfusion right? I guess all these times I've been helping people out I was doing it the hard way tch who woulda thought it could be so easy as to hand someone a bible...

EDIT: btw, you sound like a good person :D

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Bourbons3"] So someone who is evil, yet considers himself to love god, deserves to go to heaven over an atheist who donates billions of dollars to charity and saves hundreds of millions of lives over several years?euphzilla03

Since the only way to save a life is the Gospel of Jesus I guess next time I see a house fire with people trapped inside I'll throw the bible at it. And then pray instead of calling the fire department. And instead of giving blood I'll just send them copies of the good book. That'll help when the surgery requires a blood transfusion right? I guess all these times I've been helping people out I was doing it the hard way tch who woulda thought it could be so easy as to hand someone a bible...

I always hear this silly argument that atheists who live a good life and are good human beings should also go to paradise.Now why should they?What have they done to deserve it?

They lived a life their own way and they were good cuz they wanted to be.That way life was most enjoyable for them so they didnt sacrifice much by being good.And since when was religion only asking you to be good and not murder,rape etc?

You are also supposed to sacrifice the worldy pleasures that God has forbidden you like no sex before marriage,not eating/drinking stuff which is prohibited,spending some of your precious time in worshipping God and attending religious worships and I could go on with this.

Somebody who doesnt even have the heart to rape,rob or murder cannot be considered good for not doing such activities cuz he never had a choice.If someone geniounly finds peace and happiness in helping a poor and needy person then again they are not necessarily good for doing that cuz they did it for their own selfish reason.

[QUOTE="euphzilla03"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]a. everyone is evil b. donating billions to charity means nothing c. There's no such thing as saving a life since we all die anyway. The only way to truly save a life is to give them the gospel of Jesus Christ. And lastly, the law of love is to love God with all your heart and same for your neighbors. If you love God, then out of love you wouldn't sin. Evidence of your love for God is measured by your works. Therefore your statement wouldn't really work since it would just mean that person really doesn't love God. But anyways, the original post i quoted said "People who are self-motivated to do good don't deserve paradise but people who do it out of fear of a higher power do?" Which is BS since people don't do it out of fear of a higher power but out of love of a higher power and love of our neighbors. But also out of fear, but not the fear your thinking of, the best way to describe it would be respect. Kind of like how we love our parents yet at the same time know not to cross them. biBLioTek

Since the only way to save a life is the Gospel of Jesus I guess next time I see a house fire with people trapped inside I'll throw the bible at it. And then pray instead of calling the fire department. And instead of giving blood I'll just send them copies of the good book. That'll help when the surgery requires a blood transfusion right? I guess all these times I've been helping people out I was doing it the hard way tch who woulda thought it could be so easy as to hand someone a bible...

EDIT: btw, you sound like a good person :D

edit: and im not a good person

Meh, Ill live how I want. God can bite my shiny metal ass. DJ_Novakain

[QUOTE="biBLioTek"][QUOTE="euphzilla03"]

Since the only way to save a life is the Gospel of Jesus I guess next time I see a house fire with people trapped inside I'll throw the bible at it. And then pray instead of calling the fire department. And instead of giving blood I'll just send them copies of the good book. That'll help when the surgery requires a blood transfusion right? I guess all these times I've been helping people out I was doing it the hard way tch who woulda thought it could be so easy as to hand someone a bible...

Silenthps

EDIT: btw, you sound like a good person :D

I always hear this silly argument that atheists who live a good life and are good human beings should also go to paradise.Now why should they?What have they done to deserve it?

They lived a life their own way and they were good cuz they wanted to be.That way life was most enjoyable for them so they didnt sacrifice much by being good.And since when was religion only asking you to be good and not murder,rape etc?

You are also supposed to sacrifice the worldy pleasures that God has forbidden you like no sex before marriage,not eating/drinking stuff which is prohibited,spending some of your precious time in worshipping God and attending religious worships and I could go on with this.

Somebody who doesnt even have the heart to rape,rob or murder cannot be considered good for not doing such activities cuz he never had a choice.If someone geniounly finds peace and happiness in helping a poor and needy person then again they are not necessarily good for doing that cuz they did it for their own selfish reason.

In the end all this topic has done is confirm my initial feelings of religion are accurate. All religion is is a way for people to say I'm better than you. And it's not just like it's between believers and non believers etieher. One section will think they're better than the other and will begin to dog on them..

Lets look at it this way the Romans opressed and persecuted christians..being unable to actually do something at the time they made up a series of sins conviniently all the things the romans loved and made them evil and so they set themselves up to be better because they dare not partake in these sins and therefore had an everlasting bliss in the after life. And even though life sucked they were going to get rewarded and yay they are better than the romans.

I tend to believe in a higher being but certainly not the one that is portrayed by organized religions.

In the end all this topic has done is confirm my initial feelings of religion are accurate. All religion is is a way for people to say I'm better than you. And it's not just like it's between believers and non believers etieher. One section will think they're better than the other and will begin to dog on them..

Lets look at it this way the Romans opressed and persecuted christians..being unable to actually do something at the time they made up a series of sins conviniently all the things the romans loved and made them evil and so they set themselves up to be better because they dare not partake in these sins and therefore had an everlasting bliss in the after life. And even though life sucked they were going to get rewarded and yay they are better than the romans.

Lets not forget that polutions came to light as an issue so religous people weighed in claiming poluting to be a social sin(i believe that is the termenology they worded it as.) So evidently Captain Planet and the Planeters are gonna get into heaven.

I tend to believe in a higher being but certainly not the one that is portrayed by organized religions.

euphzilla03

[QUOTE="euphzilla03"]

In the end all this topic has done is confirm my initial feelings of religion are accurate. All religion is is a way for people to say I'm better than you. And it's not just like it's between believers and non believers etieher. One section will think they're better than the other and will begin to dog on them..

Lets look at it this way the Romans opressed and persecuted christians..being unable to actually do something at the time they made up a series of sins conviniently all the things the romans loved and made them evil and so they set themselves up to be better because they dare not partake in these sins and therefore had an everlasting bliss in the after life. And even though life sucked they were going to get rewarded and yay they are better than the romans.

Lets not forget that polutions came to light as an issue so religous people weighed in claiming poluting to be a social sin(i believe that is the termenology they worded it as.) So evidently Captain Planet and the Planeters are gonna get into heaven.

I tend to believe in a higher being but certainly not the one that is portrayed by organized religions.

biBLioTek

I do realize that...though it's still a fact all the seven deadly sins are things that the romans did...The emperors had their pride. The sexual aspects Lust, The feasts Gluttony and so on..while not everyone tries to say they're better than someone else many fanatical ones do..not everyones values are the same. And the tc's post more or less said christians are better than atheists..which is hard to prove..btw I find it funny how fanatical christians pride themselves on it. Does pride not count as a sin if its pride of ones devotions to the lord? I mean theres a twist..

I believe that you should be good because you are comfortable with being good. You shouldn't be good just because you want to get into heaven, you should be good for your own choice. If an atheist doesn't believe in heaven, but they are good anyway, doesn't rape or murder, then they are good because they want to just be good, with no motivation. They arn't the phony who just wants to get into heaven. They deserve every right to get into heaven if they get the choice in the end. The religious people who are only good because they dont want to go to hell, I dont think they really deserve paradise......GTA_dude

I dont really understand what you are saying. You tihnk we should be bad? You think we should commit murder and rape? In order to be good? I guess I dont understand your point. I'm just taking it as, you dont think atheist should get into heaven for being good because they arn't doing it for the right reason. I believe that you should be good because you are comfortable with being good. You shouldn't be good just because you want to get into heaven, you should be good for your own choice. If an atheist doesn't believe in heaven, but they are good anyway, doesn't rape or murder, then they are good because they want to just be good, with no motivation. They arn't the phony who just wants to get into heaven. They deserve every right to get into heaven if they get the choice in the end. The religious people who are only good because they dont want to go to hell, I dont think they really deserve paradise...... But you know, its really a case by case situation. If their is a god, then in the end everyone should be judged and should go where god thinks they should belong. It shouldn't be based off how religious they were, it should be based off how they acted, how they treated others, and reason for why they did what they did. By this idea, even a pope or priest could end up in hell, and an atheist or agnostic could end up in heaven, or vise versa. Religions shouldn't determine where you go, your actions should. I'm agnostic btw....GTA_dude

"Every action is judged by it's intentions"

Anyways are you trying to say that if someone has an evil mind but doesnt do evil things for God then he should go to hell?Really?What the hell is the person's fault that he had an evil mind?:|

[QUOTE="GTA_dude"]I dont really understand what you are saying. You tihnk we should be bad? You think we should commit murder and rape? In order to be good? I guess I dont understand your point. I'm just taking it as, you dont think atheist should get into heaven for being good because they arn't doing it for the right reason. I believe that you should be good because you are comfortable with being good. You shouldn't be good just because you want to get into heaven, you should be good for your own choice. If an atheist doesn't believe in heaven, but they are good anyway, doesn't rape or murder, then they are good because they want to just be good, with no motivation. They arn't the phony who just wants to get into heaven. They deserve every right to get into heaven if they get the choice in the end. The religious people who are only good because they dont want to go to hell, I dont think they really deserve paradise...... But you know, its really a case by case situation. If their is a god, then in the end everyone should be judged and should go where god thinks they should belong. It shouldn't be based off how religious they were, it should be based off how they acted, how they treated others, and reason for why they did what they did. By this idea, even a pope or priest could end up in hell, and an atheist or agnostic could end up in heaven, or vise versa. Religions shouldn't determine where you go, your actions should. I'm agnostic btw....Thinker_reborn

"Every action is judged by it's intentions"

Anyways are you trying to say that if someone has an evil mind but doesnt do evil things for God then he should go to hell?Really?What the hell is the person's fault that he had an evil mind?:|

About your quote by the prophet muhammed, Im confused. The prophet seems to support the view we are giving u. Every action is judged by its intentions. That would suggest that a person who is good for the sake of helping others would be judged alot better, than a person who is good due to fear of going to hell. One is geniunley a good person who's sole intention is to help others and the world, and the other is a bad man, who's only intentions are the selfish self preservation of his soul. Who do u think has the better intentions?

People who are self-motivated to do good don't deserve paradise but people who do it out of fear of a higher power do?

You might want to work on that argument. :|

metroidfood

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]

People who are self-motivated to do good don't deserve paradise but people who do it out of fear of a higher power do?

You might want to work on that argument. :|

Hamas-Qassam

So what you are saying is your life should be miserable so your after life is rewarding? Are we back in the middle ages again? :?

Shouldnt someone who is good and expects nothing in return be more justified to go to paradise, than sumone who is only good because he expects sum sort of payment at the end?

People who are self-motivated to do good don't deserve paradise but people who do it out of fear of a higher power do?

You might want to work on that argument. :|

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]

People who are self-motivated to do good don't deserve paradise but people who do it out of fear of a higher power do?

You might want to work on that argument. :|

Hamas-Qassam

[QUOTE="Hamas-Qassam"][QUOTE="metroidfood"]

People who are self-motivated to do good don't deserve paradise but people who do it out of fear of a higher power do?

You might want to work on that argument. :|

DeeJayInphinity

[QUOTE="Hamas-Qassam"][QUOTE="metroidfood"]

People who are self-motivated to do good don't deserve paradise but people who do it out of fear of a higher power do?

You might want to work on that argument. :|

II_Seraphim_II

So what you are saying is your life should be miserable so your after life is rewarding? Are we back in the middle ages again? :?

Shouldnt someone who is good and expects nothing in return be more justified to go to paradise, than sumone who is only good because he expects sum sort of payment at the end?

 People who do good just for the idea of helping others are the ones should be rewarded .

And so what if you live miserable in this life ? it only lasts for 60 , 70 ..what, 80 years ? and then you DIE !

But the after life never ends (this is mentioned in every holy book in all the major religions )

Yes , people who do good things , and get rewarded in this life do not deserve to go to paradise , people who do good and except to be rewarded in the after life are the ones who will go to paradise.Hamas-Qassam

[QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"][QUOTE="Hamas-Qassam"] Yes , people who do good things , and get rewarded in this life do not deserve to go to paradise , people who do good and except to be rewarded in the after life are the ones who will go to paradise . Hamas-Qassam

So what you are saying is your life should be miserable so your after life is rewarding? Are we back in the middle ages again? :?

Shouldnt someone who is good and expects nothing in return be more justified to go to paradise, than sumone who is only good because he expects sum sort of payment at the end?

People who do good just for the idea of helping others are the ones should be rewarded .

And so what if you live miserable in this life ? it only lasts for 60 , 70 ..what, 80 years ? and then you DIE !

But the after life never ends (this is mentioned in every holy book in all the major religions )

This post is simply one, giant assumption.

1 - You are assuming that all famous and/or rich people care about is being rich and famous. What about people like Gandhi, Mother Teresa or Steve Irwin; were they selfish individuals just because they were famous?

2 - You assume that only the religious are the ones who "do good just for the idea of helping others" when there are many atheists that I know that take time out of their day to do community service, donate to charity, etc.

3 - How do you know the afterlife never ends? According to many (if not all) of those religious texts, it describes the deity creating the universe around him; this being said, he could just as easily put an end to all of reality as well.

Think a little, please.

[QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"][QUOTE="Hamas-Qassam"] Yes , people who do good things , and get rewarded in this life do not deserve to go to paradise , people who do good and except to be rewarded in the after life are the ones who will go to paradise . Hamas-Qassam

So what you are saying is your life should be miserable so your after life is rewarding? Are we back in the middle ages again? :?

Shouldnt someone who is good and expects nothing in return be more justified to go to paradise, than sumone who is only good because he expects sum sort of payment at the end?

People who do good just for the idea of helping others are the ones should be rewarded .

And so what if you live miserable in this life ? it only lasts for 60 , 70 ..what, 80 years ? and then you DIE !

But the after life never ends (this is mentioned in every holy book in all the major religions )

First, there is no such thing as a good person. My good person test at the bottom proves that. But why don't we look in the mirror and see if we are good.

1. Ever disobeyed your parents? That breaks the 5th commandment.

2. Ever killed someone which includes hate or killing with words? That is the 6th commandment.

3. Ever committed adultery? That includes (Matthew 5) looking at someone with lust which is where adultery starts. (7th commandment)

4. Ever stolen something no matter how small? That is the 8th commandment.

5. Ever lied? That is the 9th commandment.

If you believe in a praradise there has to be someone that created it which means there is a God. He has to be perfect in every way otherwise we are in deep poo. Also, that means perfection is required to get there. Which means you can't break those commandments even once and that is only 5. There are 5 more. Since none of us are perfect we are screwed.