john macain will win because hes ....... well i cant say or else i would get modded
Barack Obama VS John McCain (Poll)
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="bradleybhoy"][QUOTE="kool-aids"][QUOTE="Rikusaki"]So you are saying that...
Getting out of Iraq is not change?
Lowering taxes for the poor is not change?
A universal healthcare system is not change?
Giving teachers higher pay is not change?
Raising the minimun wage is not change?
Putting an end to the failed economic policys of Bush is not change?
Then what is change?
falconclan
1.Thats change yes, but for good or bad?
2. Change yes, but for good or bad?
3. Thats horrible, the rich have to pay higher taxes so bums can feed off of the Gov't.
4.Teachers do NOT need higher pay, they work 8 months out of the year, and still make damn good money.
5.Change, but for good or bad?
6. Rising taxes, wastefull gov't spending and socialized healthcare is good change?
Wasteful government spending? The government's wasted enough money funding the Iraq War and floating big business with substantial grants.
Socialised Healthcare? Yah that's good change chief.
Socialized heathcare is proven to be the best healthcare system in the world. Look at:
Canada
Japan
Germany
France
Britain
Any of you watch the movie "sicko"?
You should see it. It shows how terrible our system is.
Any grain of integrity this statement once had was ruined by the line that had Sicko in it. Michael Moore, Really? You think its bad now, wait till we have Socialised healthcare then wait till you need a new organ of some sort.michael is one the most centrist, knowledgeable, and intellectual figures of the 21st century. what's wrong with his facual documentary?
[QUOTE="fidosim"]New theory: Rikusaki = one of Obama's daughters?bman784
The people who keep ragging on him aren't showing a whole lot of maturity. He (or she) is overly enthusiastic and probably overly enamored (just a bit creepy), but gracious. If you think he's that bad just ignore him. Browsing through this thread I could swear I saw three solid pages of people ragging on him.
hi! do u like oba-a-b-bama too?
sorry im nervous :oops:
[QUOTE="Rikusaki"]Socialized heathcare is proven to be the best healthcare system in the world. Look at:
CanadaThaT-Masta
Canada? That is an awful example. They have one of the worst healthcare systems...
lol ok then look at:
Japan! Highest life expectancy rate in the world.
I bet you were going to say because he was white, and if that was it, whatever man. I don't believe race is going to turn many voters off, especially the young ones.john macain will win because hes ....... well i cant say or else i would get modded
Norg
[QUOTE="ThaT-Masta"][QUOTE="Rikusaki"]Socialized heathcare is proven to be the best healthcare system in the world. Look at:
CanadaRikusaki
Canada? That is an awful example. They have one of the worst healthcare systems...
lol ok then look at:
Japan! Highest life expectancy rate in the world.
Life expectancy has little to do with healthcare surprisingly. American's are fat, and getting fatter.[QUOTE="Norg"]I bet you were going to say because he was white, and if that was it, whatever man. I don't believe race is going to turn many voters off, especially the young ones.john macain will win because hes ....... well i cant say or else i would get modded
falconclan
i hate to disagree with you, but I believe you're wrong ... the idea of demographics played a key role in the primaries....questions like "how many blacks are in this state?" and "how many women?".... we are still a very racist and prejudiced nation...we're getting there, but sadly not as fast as most people let on
Sicko is made by none other than Michael Moore(correct me if im wrong), he is a left wing nut that shouldnt be taken seriously. Also, in canada, there medicare is getting worser, and people are starting to wait longer to get it.
kool-aids
Just because his political views are different doesn't mean he is a "nut".
I could call Bill O' Riley a right wing nut, but I don't.
Billo is just a right wing person...thing.. that is mean to the left wing person thingys... yeahh
[QUOTE="falconclan"][QUOTE="Norg"]I bet you were going to say because he was white, and if that was it, whatever man. I don't believe race is going to turn many voters off, especially the young ones.john macain will win because hes ....... well i cant say or else i would get modded
johnnyv2003
i hate to disagree with you, but I believe you're wrong ... the idea of demographics played a key role in the primaries....questions like "how many blacks are in this state?" and "how many women?".... we are still a very racist and prejudiced nation...we're getting there, but sadly not as fast as most people let on
What do those questions have to do with anything, can they not still disagree with the guy because he's black? I refuse to believe that the American people would shun someone who they thought was better than the other candidate because he is a different color. I would vote for Barrack Obama if I didn't hate his political decisions and disagree with some decisions he's made in life.[QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="ThaT-Masta"][QUOTE="Rikusaki"]Socialized heathcare is proven to be the best healthcare system in the world. Look at:
Canadafalconclan
Canada? That is an awful example. They have one of the worst healthcare systems...
lol ok then look at:
Japan! Highest life expectancy rate in the world.
Life expectancy has little to do with healthcare surprisingly. American's are fat, and getting fatter.then look at:
Germany! People are very happy with their heathcare system!
[QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="ThaT-Masta"][QUOTE="Rikusaki"]Socialized heathcare is proven to be the best healthcare system in the world. Look at:
CanadaThaT-Masta
Canada? That is an awful example. They have one of the worst healthcare systems...
lol ok then look at:
Japan! Highest life expectancy rate in the world.
That's not because of they're healthcare...:roll:
i know!
i just really like japan
[QUOTE="kool-aids"]Sicko is made by none other than Michael Moore(correct me if im wrong), he is a left wing nut that shouldnt be taken seriously. Also, in canada, there medicare is getting worser, and people are starting to wait longer to get it.
Rikusaki
Just because his political views are different doesn't mean he is a "nut".
I could call Bill O' Riley a right wing nut, but I don't.
Billo is just a right wing person...thing.. that is mean to the left wing person thingys... yeahh
WOAH, WOAH WOAH... WOAH. I may just be crazy, but I believe that Bill O'Riley, while very right wing, is still CLEARLY on a different level then Michael Moore. Michael Moore is crazy, I figured that out through watching one of his documentaries.[QUOTE="johnnyv2003"][QUOTE="falconclan"][QUOTE="Norg"]I bet you were going to say because he was white, and if that was it, whatever man. I don't believe race is going to turn many voters off, especially the young ones.john macain will win because hes ....... well i cant say or else i would get modded
falconclan
i hate to disagree with you, but I believe you're wrong ... the idea of demographics played a key role in the primaries....questions like "how many blacks are in this state?" and "how many women?".... we are still a very racist and prejudiced nation...we're getting there, but sadly not as fast as most people let on
What do those questions have to do with anything, can they not still disagree with the guy because he's black? I refuse to believe that the American people would shun someone who they thought was better than the other candidate because he is a different color. I would vote for Barrack Obama if I didn't hate his political decisions and disagree with some decisions he's made in life.again, i'm not saying that it's right...but I don't believe that America is as far progressively in our race relations as people let on... a sad and sorry truth
[QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="kool-aids"]Sicko is made by none other than Michael Moore(correct me if im wrong), he is a left wing nut that shouldnt be taken seriously. Also, in canada, there medicare is getting worser, and people are starting to wait longer to get it.
falconclan
Just because his political views are different doesn't mean he is a "nut".
I could call Bill O' Riley a right wing nut, but I don't.
Billo is just a right wing person...thing.. that is mean to the left wing person thingys... yeahh
WOAH, WOAH WOAH... WOAH. I may just be crazy, but I believe that Bill O'Riley, while very right wing, is still CLEARLY on a different level then Michael Moore. Michael Moore is crazy, I figured that out through watching one of his documentaries.Billo is mean and disrespctful to his guests. I don't like him.
Keith Olberman >>> Bill O' Riley
[QUOTE="Rikusaki"]i know!
i just really like japan
ThaT-Masta
Most of them have great diets and eat very well. But Americans...most of them have awful diets leading them to become fat which leads to alot of health problems.
No healthcare is involved in that.
Also, you shouldn't put Japan on a list because you like them.
i put them on the list because they have socialist healthcare.
many agree that japan has the best healthcare system in the world.
[QUOTE="ThaT-Masta"][QUOTE="Rikusaki"]i know!
i just really like japan
Rikusaki
Most of them have great diets and eat very well. But Americans...most of them have awful diets leading them to become fat which leads to alot of health problems.
No healthcare is involved in that.
Also, you shouldn't put Japan on a list because you like them.
i put them on the list because they have socialist healthcare.
many agree that japan has the best healthcare system in the world.
No, YOU believe they do. Socialist healthcare will not work in America, and we will regret it if we get it.[QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="falconclan"]WOAH, WOAH WOAH... WOAH. I may just be crazy, but I believe that Bill O'Riley, while very right wing, is still CLEARLY on a different level then Michael Moore. Michael Moore is crazy, I figured that out through watching one of his documentaries. ThaT-Masta
Billo is mean and disrespctful to his guests. I don't like him.
Keith Olberman >>> Bill O' Riley
Try to stay on topic.
sorry mister! :(
[QUOTE="BoG_"][QUOTE="bradleybhoy"][QUOTE="BoG_"]GREAT CHANGE! I will no longer need to pay if I destroy my liver through drinking or get lung cancer by smoking or any other self-induced problems! I am free to let my problems rest on all of your shoulders! Responsibility is mine no more! bradleybhoy
So only rich people have the luxury of getting cancer?
Oh wait, I see now how you totally demolished the concept of Socialised Healthcare with your un-assailable argument. :|
Socialized health care is broken. We're Canada's safety net currently, they send patients here because the wait is so long up there. England is an absolute disaster health care wise. Of course, if we want the same people who ruined social security, medicare, and all other public disasters, I guess we deserve it.
No. No it's not.
You might want to look closer to home at the actual problems with the American healthcare system (unless you think it's perfect the way it is) and consider ways to improve it for everyone, or else you can just continue to ignore the issues and deflect debate off by referring to the backwards commies in Europe.
Let me just provide some facts about America's "terrible" healthcare:
In the U.S., the federal government does not guarantee universal health care to all its citizens, but publicly funded health care programs help to provide for the elderly, disabled, the poor, and children.[36] The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act also ensures public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.
According to the United States Census Bureau, just under 60% of U.S. citizens have health insurance related to employment, 27% have government-provided health-insurance; another 9% purchase health insurance directly (there is some overlap in these figures), and 15.8% (47 million) were uninsured in 2006.[22] An estimated 25 percent of the uninsured are eligible for government programs but unenrolled.[21] About a third of the uninsured are in households earning more than $50,000 annually.[22][38] A 2003 report by the Congressional Budget office found that many people lack health insurance only temporarily, such as after leaving one employer and before a new job.
A number of free clinics provide free or low-cost non-emergency care to poor, uninsured patients. The National Association of Free Clinics claims that its member clinics provide $3 billion in services to some 3.5 million patients annually.
In a 2003 survey of hospital administrators conducted in Canada, the U.S., and three other countries, 21% of Canadian hospital administrators, but less than 1% of American administrators, said that it would take over three weeks to do a biopsy for possible breast cancer on a 50-year-old woman; 50% of Canadian administrators versus none of their American counterparts said that it would take over six months for a 65-year-old to undergo a routine hip replacement surgery.
The United States spends more on technology than Canada. In a 2004 study on medical imaging in Canada,[73] it was found that Canada had 4.6 MRI scanners per million population while the U.S. had 19.5 per million. Canada's 10.3 CT scanners per million also ranked behind the U.S., which had 29.5 per million.
Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.
wow, great post (whoever posted the american healthcare statistics, for some reason it wouldn't let me quote)....what most people fail to realize is that "socialist healthcare" will never be implemented, I don't care who's in office...Obama might talk about it to get some cheers from his audience, but anyone who really thinks it's going to happen doesn't know the healthcare/political arena
[QUOTE="falconclan"][QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="kool-aids"]Sicko is made by none other than Michael Moore(correct me if im wrong), he is a left wing nut that shouldnt be taken seriously. Also, in canada, there medicare is getting worser, and people are starting to wait longer to get it.
Rikusaki
Just because his political views are different doesn't mean he is a "nut".
I could call Bill O' Riley a right wing nut, but I don't.
Billo is just a right wing person...thing.. that is mean to the left wing person thingys... yeahh
WOAH, WOAH WOAH... WOAH. I may just be crazy, but I believe that Bill O'Riley, while very right wing, is still CLEARLY on a different level then Michael Moore. Michael Moore is crazy, I figured that out through watching one of his documentaries.Billo is mean and disrespctful to his guests. I don't like him.
Keith Olberman >>> Bill O' Riley
The second you say Keith Olberman is greater than ANYONE, all credibility is lost.
That guy is just a joke.
[QUOTE="Rikusaki"][QUOTE="kool-aids"]Sicko is made by none other than Michael Moore(correct me if im wrong), he is a left wing nut that shouldnt be taken seriously. Also, in canada, there medicare is getting worser, and people are starting to wait longer to get it.
falconclan
Just because his political views are different doesn't mean he is a "nut".
I could call Bill O' Riley a right wing nut, but I don't.
Billo is just a right wing person...thing.. that is mean to the left wing person thingys... yeahh
WOAH, WOAH WOAH... WOAH. I may just be crazy, but I believe that Bill O'Riley, while very right wing, is still CLEARLY on a different level then Michael Moore. Michael Moore is crazy, I figured that out through watching one of his documentaries.Bill O'reilly is just loud, he isnt stupid though.
Bill isnt very right wing either, if people had the capability of thinking rather than emotional banter they would realize this.
Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
BoG_
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.
Capitalism is not less flawed. People have false notions about socialized healthcare, in that it has to be some Marxist state mandated system, which isn't true. Obama proposes subsidies and worker programs that don't make healthcare free, but rather universally affordable, which isn't an existing condition in the capitalist system. It doesn't force anyone to pay for healthcare, but it makes it affordable. That's a step in the right direction. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that the US probably couldn't support free, universal healthcare in its current state, but to deny the feasibility of pursuing affordability and progression towards socialized healthcare isn't productive.
Yay Capitalism!
Yay Capitalism!
KaptainKernal
excuse me...do you have that in diet?
The second you say Keith Olberman is greater than ANYONE, all credibility is lost.
That guy is just a joke.
kool-aids
Conservatives would consider him a joke. Just as liberals consider Limbaugh and O'Reilly to be jokes. Political opinion doesn't necessarily reflect truth.
[QUOTE="BoG_"]Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.bman784
Capitalism is not less flawed. People have false notions about socialized healthcare, in that it has to be some Marxist state mandated system, which isn't true. Obama proposes subsidies and worker programs that don't make healthcare free, but rather universally affordable, which isn't an existing condition in the capitalist system. It doesn't force anyone to pay for healthcare, but it makes it affordable. That's a step in the right direction. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that the US probably couldn't support free, universal healthcare in its current state, but to deny the feasibility of pursuing affordability and progression towards socialized healthcare isn't productive.
the fact that you think America is capitalist really shows how much you know.
And Bill O'Reilly isn't a joke? Olberman is certainly a better journalist than O'Reilly.
And as for healthcare, how many hospitals have gone bankrupt and how many more are going bankrupt due to how many of the uninsured just aren't paying for their emergency medical services? Our system isn't quite broken, yet, but it is rapidly heading there. Why do you think insurance premiums are going up at many times the rate of inflation?
[QUOTE="KaptainKernal"]Yay Capitalism!
johnnyv2003
excuse me...do you have that in diet?
You can only find that in China. Here we only got the good kind.
And Bill O'Reilly isn't a joke? Olberman is certainly a better journalist than O'Reilly.
And as for healthcare, how many hospitals have gone bankrupt and how many more are going bankrupt due to how many of the uninsured just aren't paying for their emergency medical services? Our system isn't quite broken, yet, but it is rapidly heading there. Why do you think insurance premiums are going up at many times the rate of inflation?
ThaSod
if someone cant pay, the bill still does get paid.
we do get taxed for these things you know, every american has a 900 dollar tax every year to cover things like that that.
[QUOTE="ThaSod"]And Bill O'Reilly isn't a joke? Olberman is certainly a better journalist than O'Reilly.
And as for healthcare, how many hospitals have gone bankrupt and how many more are going bankrupt due to how many of the uninsured just aren't paying for their emergency medical services? Our system isn't quite broken, yet, but it is rapidly heading there. Why do you think insurance premiums are going up at many times the rate of inflation?
H8sMikeMoore
if someone cant pay, the bill still does get paid.
we do get taxed for these things you know, every american has a 900 dollar tax every year to cover things like that that.
So who's paying this bill? Too many are completely unpaid, thus the rash of hospital bankruptcies, especially in rural and poor urban areas.
and what is this $900/year tax you are talking about? Medicare? You do know that they are scaling back Medicare payments radically this year, which will lead to many more bankruptcies.
[QUOTE="BoG_"]Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.bman784
Capitalism is not less flawed. People have false notions about socialized healthcare, in that it has to be some Marxist state mandated system, which isn't true. Obama proposes subsidies and worker programs that don't make healthcare free, but rather universally affordable, which isn't an existing condition in the capitalist system. It doesn't force anyone to pay for healthcare, but it makes it affordable. That's a step in the right direction. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that the US probably couldn't support free, universal healthcare in its current state, but to deny the feasibility of pursuing affordability and progression towards socialized healthcare isn't productive.
Well, how flawed both systems are is debatable, and the debate has been exhausted countless times. The problem is that most liberals I talk to want exactly that, total free health care. The evidence is clear in medicare and medicaid that we can't give everyone insurance for such a low price. Things such as cancer would eat the budget in no time, and we couldn't afford to do anything but euthanize many patients on life support. My biggest worry that is if we start small, those few liberals who really do dream of a Marxist state will find ways to get it, just as capitalists abuse public domain to support business.
[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="BoG_"]Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.H8sMikeMoore
Capitalism is not less flawed. People have false notions about socialized healthcare, in that it has to be some Marxist state mandated system, which isn't true. Obama proposes subsidies and worker programs that don't make healthcare free, but rather universally affordable, which isn't an existing condition in the capitalist system. It doesn't force anyone to pay for healthcare, but it makes it affordable. That's a step in the right direction. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that the US probably couldn't support free, universal healthcare in its current state, but to deny the feasibility of pursuing affordability and progression towards socialized healthcare isn't productive.
the fact that you think America is capitalist really shows how much you know.
Please argue instead of being condescending. It makes you look smarter. The healthcare system that we operate under is based on capitalism (you can argue textbook definition semantics of "free market" all you want, but it really doesn't matter; I'm just using the basic understanding of capitalism to describe the current healthcare system), as in the purchase of insurance and the fees that are necessitated by treatment.
[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="ThaSod"]And Bill O'Reilly isn't a joke? Olberman is certainly a better journalist than O'Reilly.
And as for healthcare, how many hospitals have gone bankrupt and how many more are going bankrupt due to how many of the uninsured just aren't paying for their emergency medical services? Our system isn't quite broken, yet, but it is rapidly heading there. Why do you think insurance premiums are going up at many times the rate of inflation?
ThaSod
if someone cant pay, the bill still does get paid.
we do get taxed for these things you know, every american has a 900 dollar tax every year to cover things like that that.
So who's paying this bill? Too many are completely unpaid, thus the rash of hospital bankruptcies, especially in rural and poor urban areas.
its a tax, hence me saying tax.
[QUOTE="kool-aids"]The second you say Keith Olberman is greater than ANYONE, all credibility is lost.
That guy is just a joke.
bman784
Conservatives would consider him a joke. Just as liberals consider Limbaugh and O'Reilly to be jokes. Political opinion doesn't necessarily reflect truth.
As a conservative I consider both of them to be jokes. I once listened to Limbaugh rant about how flourescent lightbulbs threw off his decor. The other one who really gets me is Gingrich. Can anyone take him seriously with his death penalty for abortions? really?
[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="BoG_"]Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.bman784
Capitalism is not less flawed. People have false notions about socialized healthcare, in that it has to be some Marxist state mandated system, which isn't true. Obama proposes subsidies and worker programs that don't make healthcare free, but rather universally affordable, which isn't an existing condition in the capitalist system. It doesn't force anyone to pay for healthcare, but it makes it affordable. That's a step in the right direction. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that the US probably couldn't support free, universal healthcare in its current state, but to deny the feasibility of pursuing affordability and progression towards socialized healthcare isn't productive.
the fact that you think America is capitalist really shows how much you know.
Please argue instead of being condescending. It makes you look smarter. The healthcare system that we operate under is based on capitalism (you can argue textbook definition semantics of "free market" all you want, but it really doesn't matter; I'm just using the basic understanding of capitalism to describe the current healthcare system), as in the purchase of insurance and the fees that are necessitated by treatment.
its really hard to not be condescending when someone believes in socialism. the bottom line is, you people try to say "this country isnt socialists, that one isnt" but every time socialism has ever happened, people suffer.
Medicare isnt capitalist
Being tied to your job for medical insurance isnt capitalist, we dont really have an open market for insurance plans. actually, if there was no insurance the price for doctor visits would go down dramatically, along with procedures. Thats the good thing about capitalism, competition. competition makes everything better.
cosmetic surgery proves this, and you can youtube sick in america to see a great documentary on real health insurance.
youll never admit it though, because you're emotionally attatched to your belief system clearly.
the fact that companies get bailed out (including health insurance companies) totally destroys the idea that this country has a capitalist system.
Obamabots lol...Sorry but Obama supporters are brainwashed. Mark my words-McCain WILL WINSVTCobra006
McCant lol...Sorry but McCain supporters are brainwashed.Mark my words-Obama WILL WIN
[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="BoG_"]Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.H8sMikeMoore
Capitalism is not less flawed. People have false notions about socialized healthcare, in that it has to be some Marxist state mandated system, which isn't true. Obama proposes subsidies and worker programs that don't make healthcare free, but rather universally affordable, which isn't an existing condition in the capitalist system. It doesn't force anyone to pay for healthcare, but it makes it affordable. That's a step in the right direction. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that the US probably couldn't support free, universal healthcare in its current state, but to deny the feasibility of pursuing affordability and progression towards socialized healthcare isn't productive.
the fact that you think America is capitalist really shows how much you know.
Please argue instead of being condescending. It makes you look smarter. The healthcare system that we operate under is based on capitalism (you can argue textbook definition semantics of "free market" all you want, but it really doesn't matter; I'm just using the basic understanding of capitalism to describe the current healthcare system), as in the purchase of insurance and the fees that are necessitated by treatment.
its really hard to not be condescending when someone believes in socialism. the bottom line is, you people try to say "this country isnt socialists, that one isnt" but every time socialism has ever happened, people suffer.
Medicare isnt capitalist
Being tied to your job for medical insurance isnt capitalist, we dont really have an open market for insurance plans. actually, if there was no insurance the price for doctor visits would go down dramatically, along with procedures. Thats the good thing about capitalism, competition. competition makes everything better.
cosmetic surgery proves this, and you can youtube sick in america to see a great documentary on real health insurance.
youll never admit it though, because you're emotionally attatched to your belief system clearly.
the fact that companies get bailed out (including health insurance companies) totally destroys the idea that this country has a capitalist system.
The problem is, the point I have asserted previously in this thread, is that both systems are very flawed. Pure capitalism would end in disaster just as pure socialism would. I do think that capitalism is the system with fewer flaws, but we've got to find that happy medium to make things work without going to either anarchy or authoritarianism.
You seem to be equally attached to your beliefs, given your unequivocal opinion on the negativity of socialism. Therefore any argument is pointless, seeing as you think that the free market is the be all end all answer to any economic problem, and I differ from that view. That being the case, condescend away. I have a carte blanche to do the same.its really hard to not be condescending when someone believes in socialism. the bottom line is, you people try to say "this country isnt socialists, that one isnt" but every time socialism has ever happened, people suffer.
Medicare isnt capitalist
Being tied to your job for medical insurance isnt capitalist, we dont really have an open market for insurance plans. actually, if there was no insurance the price for doctor visits would go down dramatically, along with procedures. Thats the good thing about capitalism, competition. competition makes everything better.
cosmetic surgery proves this, and you can youtube sick in america to see a great documentary on real health insurance.
youll never admit it though, because you're emotionally attatched to your belief system clearly.
the fact that companies get bailed out (including health insurance companies) totally destroys the idea that this country has a capitalist system.
H8sMikeMoore
[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="BoG_"]Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.BoG_
Capitalism is not less flawed. People have false notions about socialized healthcare, in that it has to be some Marxist state mandated system, which isn't true. Obama proposes subsidies and worker programs that don't make healthcare free, but rather universally affordable, which isn't an existing condition in the capitalist system. It doesn't force anyone to pay for healthcare, but it makes it affordable. That's a step in the right direction. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that the US probably couldn't support free, universal healthcare in its current state, but to deny the feasibility of pursuing affordability and progression towards socialized healthcare isn't productive.
the fact that you think America is capitalist really shows how much you know.
Please argue instead of being condescending. It makes you look smarter. The healthcare system that we operate under is based on capitalism (you can argue textbook definition semantics of "free market" all you want, but it really doesn't matter; I'm just using the basic understanding of capitalism to describe the current healthcare system), as in the purchase of insurance and the fees that are necessitated by treatment.
its really hard to not be condescending when someone believes in socialism. the bottom line is, you people try to say "this country isnt socialists, that one isnt" but every time socialism has ever happened, people suffer.
Medicare isnt capitalist
Being tied to your job for medical insurance isnt capitalist, we dont really have an open market for insurance plans. actually, if there was no insurance the price for doctor visits would go down dramatically, along with procedures. Thats the good thing about capitalism, competition. competition makes everything better.
cosmetic surgery proves this, and you can youtube sick in america to see a great documentary on real health insurance.
youll never admit it though, because you're emotionally attatched to your belief system clearly.
the fact that companies get bailed out (including health insurance companies) totally destroys the idea that this country has a capitalist system.
The problem is, the point I have asserted previously in this thread, is that both systems are very flawed. Pure capitalism would end in disaster just as pure socialism would. I do think that capitalism is the system with fewer flaws, but we've got to find that happy medium to make things work without going to either anarchy or authoritarianism.
the thing is, capitalism CAN be flawed. it really depends on the society.
Socialism is flawed by nature.
[QUOTE="SVTCobra006"]Obamabots lol...Sorry but Obama supporters are brainwashed. Mark my words-McCain WILL WINTjeremiah1988
McCant lol...Sorry but McCain supporters are brainwashed.Mark my words-Obama WILL WIN
That is a bold statement that makes you look brainwashed.:?
The election is still totally up in the air, nobody can be sure who would win.
Also polls can be fudged. Examples: Truman vs Dewey, Bush vs Gore.
Polls sometimes predict the wrong person.
[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]its really hard to not be condescending when someone believes in socialism. the bottom line is, you people try to say "this country isnt socialists, that one isnt" but every time socialism has ever happened, people suffer.
Medicare isnt capitalist
Being tied to your job for medical insurance isnt capitalist, we dont really have an open market for insurance plans. actually, if there was no insurance the price for doctor visits would go down dramatically, along with procedures. Thats the good thing about capitalism, competition. competition makes everything better.
cosmetic surgery proves this, and you can youtube sick in america to see a great documentary on real health insurance.
youll never admit it though, because you're emotionally attatched to your belief system clearly.
the fact that companies get bailed out (including health insurance companies) totally destroys the idea that this country has a capitalist system.
bman784
You seem to be equally attached to your beliefs, given your unequivocal opinion on the negativity of socialism. Therefore any argument is pointless, seeing as you think that the free market is the be all end all answer to any economic problem, and I differ from that view. That being the case, condescend away. I have a carte blanche to do the same.
actually when I was younger I was a pretty hardcore socialist. Until I grew up, and started to see things for what they were. Capitalism makes things harder, but the end result is better.
your argument was pointless from the beginning. I dont like the government, I dont want it in my life. I dont like monopolies, so I dont want government services.
[QUOTE="BoG_"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="BoG_"]Oh man, this health care argument will go the way of all health care arguments. Life expectancy is not high in america! But that is because americans are irresponsible! but watch sicko cuba is awesome! LOL michael moore really? We deserve health care all of us do! No we don't!
The worst part of it is, I think I am to blame.
My personal opinion is that in the end, no matter how you go about it, the health care system will be endlessly flawed. It is a very pessimistic view, but I don't think either way is better. Capitalism is just less flawed in this instance.H8sMikeMoore
Capitalism is not less flawed. People have false notions about socialized healthcare, in that it has to be some Marxist state mandated system, which isn't true. Obama proposes subsidies and worker programs that don't make healthcare free, but rather universally affordable, which isn't an existing condition in the capitalist system. It doesn't force anyone to pay for healthcare, but it makes it affordable. That's a step in the right direction. It's perfectly reasonable to assert that the US probably couldn't support free, universal healthcare in its current state, but to deny the feasibility of pursuing affordability and progression towards socialized healthcare isn't productive.
the fact that you think America is capitalist really shows how much you know.
Please argue instead of being condescending. It makes you look smarter. The healthcare system that we operate under is based on capitalism (you can argue textbook definition semantics of "free market" all you want, but it really doesn't matter; I'm just using the basic understanding of capitalism to describe the current healthcare system), as in the purchase of insurance and the fees that are necessitated by treatment.
its really hard to not be condescending when someone believes in socialism. the bottom line is, you people try to say "this country isnt socialists, that one isnt" but every time socialism has ever happened, people suffer.
Medicare isnt capitalist
Being tied to your job for medical insurance isnt capitalist, we dont really have an open market for insurance plans. actually, if there was no insurance the price for doctor visits would go down dramatically, along with procedures. Thats the good thing about capitalism, competition. competition makes everything better.
cosmetic surgery proves this, and you can youtube sick in america to see a great documentary on real health insurance.
youll never admit it though, because you're emotionally attatched to your belief system clearly.
the fact that companies get bailed out (including health insurance companies) totally destroys the idea that this country has a capitalist system.
The problem is, the point I have asserted previously in this thread, is that both systems are very flawed. Pure capitalism would end in disaster just as pure socialism would. I do think that capitalism is the system with fewer flaws, but we've got to find that happy medium to make things work without going to either anarchy or authoritarianism.
the thing is, capitalism CAN be flawed. it really depends on the society.
Socialism is flawed by nature.
Once again I am a pessimist, as I say that humans, by nature, are also flawed. It is these flaws in nature that create the flaws in capitalism. Also, in your above post, you pointed out a flaw in capitalism, monopolies. Government monopolies are as bad as private ones.
Also, bman, I would like your response to my last post on page 39, I think you may have missed it.
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