Best Metal ever...

i think Pantera is the best of the best the cream of the crop when it comes to METAL !!! Norg

I'm a fan of Pantera but you have to admit that alot of their songs sound alike

This metalcore and numetal discussion will go on forever. Can we just conclude that it's not metal and move on with it? Why do you guys care?GodLovesDead

Just because its a fusion genre doesnt mean it still cant fall under the same umbrella as all the other metal genres.freek666

Then, again, wouldn't that mean that it can also fall under Hardcore at the same time? So wouldn't that mean if you put the entire sub-genre under metal, then how is it still considered Hardcore? If that were to be the case, then how would the more heavily hardcore influenced bands still be considered metal since all metalcore bands would be considered metal? If the reverse were to take effect, then how would the more metal influenced bands be considered Hardcore? Why can't it just be its own genre?

If it's considered hardcore and metal at the same time, that would mean that it does not pre-dominantly fall under either genre, so while it's basically both, it would end up as a fusion genre. That's pretty much what metalcore is, so it's basically its own genre. I don't see how this is something that's completely unacceptable and considered to be a black and white view. What I'm trying to get at is how it's possible for all metalcore to be lumped together as a sub-genre of metal if there's so many different variants and disambiguations of metalcore that draw strong influences from both genres of metal and hardcore. I don't get how a band like Opeth should even be in this discussion, as it's much more clear that they have a heavier influence in metal, rather than its folk and progressive roots. Though I found that it was more progressive metal than rock, but Opeth is the sort of band that's easy to see as metal, due to its strong influence and sound. Metalcore on the other hand simply doesn't meet the same criteria for me. It's all opinion, I know, but then again, so is pretty much everything else in life. What I want to see is how every band in metalcore can be a part of it, and still be considered a sub-genre of metal, if there's a good deal of metalcore bands that sound more hardcore than metal, and are even sometimes classified as hardcore.

Blood-Scribe

If all metalcore is in fact metalcore, it can all be considered metal and it can all be considered hardcore. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that. You are thinking in black and white, because you're still saying that a band can't be both hardcore and metal at the same time.

The point I was trying to make with Opeth is that bands can very easily transcend genres, and it's not always that simple. You're underestimating Opeth's influence from 70's progressive rock. I'd argue that they employ more progressive rock in their music these days than metal by far. But you'd have to be familiar with that kind of music more to understand.

[QUOTE="skullkrusher13"][QUOTE="elite_destroyer"]

i all ready told you ive picked up magazines such as hit parader. they called Killswitch Engaged, which is infact what you called a Metalcore band, a underground metal band. this was the January 2004 Copy i believe. elite_destroyer

not only are you using a magazine as an example (which are innaccurate most of the time because they are naive and only look at bands on major record labels) but you are using a magazine FROM 2004. Wow.

The bottom line is if a band is on the metal archives, its metal.

haha your joking right? a published magazine isnt as offical as a dumb website that doesnt even look official?

that was the funniest thing I've read all day, metalarchives is the most trusted source for metal on the internet, any person who knows anything about non-mallcore "metal" knows that.

Do you know how magazines work? They have to sell copies. To sell copies, they have to talk about mainstream music, and I can bet the editors don't know crap about real metal because no real metalhead would want to work for company that only talks about popular trendy music (in the U.S. mostly metalcore is the "in" music).

Hardcore itself falls under the metal umbrella, so thats why it isnt removed because of its Hardcore influences.

[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"]

If it's considered hardcore and metal at the same time, that would mean that it does not pre-dominantly fall under either genre, so while it's basically both, it would end up as a fusion genre. That's pretty much what metalcore is, so it's basically its own genre. I don't see how this is something that's completely unacceptable and considered to be a black and white view. What I'm trying to get at is how it's possible for all metalcore to be lumped together as a sub-genre of metal if there's so many different variants and disambiguations of metalcore that draw strong influences from both genres of metal and hardcore. I don't get how a band like Opeth should even be in this discussion, as it's much more clear that they have a heavier influence in metal, rather than its folk and progressive roots. Though I found that it was more progressive metal than rock, but Opeth is the sort of band that's easy to see as metal, due to its strong influence and sound. Metalcore on the other hand simply doesn't meet the same criteria for me. It's all opinion, I know, but then again, so is pretty much everything else in life. What I want to see is how every band in metalcore can be a part of it, and still be considered a sub-genre of metal, if there's a good deal of metalcore bands that sound more hardcore than metal, and are even sometimes classified as hardcore.

Episode_666

If all metalcore is in fact metalcore, it can all be considered metal and it can all be considered hardcore. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that.

The point I was trying to make with Opeth is that bands can very easily transcend genres, and it's not always that simple. You're underestimating Opeth's influence from 70's progressive rock. I'd argue that they employ more progressive rock in their music these days than metal by far. But you'd have to be familiar with that kind of music more to understand.

Going by what you're saying, I still don't see how its difficult to see how metalcore/metalcore/metalcore/metalcore can just be considered its own genre.

And as for the point on Opeth, I honestly don't listen to much progressive rock from the 70's, but I've been listening to Opeth for a few years now. And I've seen many examples in which a band transcends a genre, just not really between Metal and 70s Progressive Rock.

Which is making quite a mockery of what metal originally was...

qubert27

That's complete ****. Have you ever heard of Venom?

[QUOTE="elite_destroyer"][QUOTE="skullkrusher13"][QUOTE="elite_destroyer"]

i all ready told you ive picked up magazines such as hit parader. they called Killswitch Engaged, which is infact what you called a Metalcore band, a underground metal band. this was the January 2004 Copy i believe. skullkrusher13

not only are you using a magazine as an example (which are innaccurate most of the time because they are naive and only look at bands on major record labels) but you are using a magazine FROM 2004. Wow.

The bottom line is if a band is on the metal archives, its metal.

haha your joking right? a published magazine isnt as offical as a dumb website that doesnt even look official?

that was the funniest thing I've read all day, metalarchives is the most trusted source for metal on the internet, any person who knows anything about non-mallcore "metal" knows that.

Do you know how magazines work? They have to sell copies. To sell copies, they have to talk about mainstream music, and I can bet the editors don't know crap about real metal because no real metalhead would want to work for company that only talks about popular trendy music (in the U.S. mostly metalcore is the "in" music).

give me the link to metal archives cause the one i was on was not 100% accurate at all. and just cause they have a big record company on there side means there mainstream? lol. thats like say Black Sabbath is mainstream when they are one of metals gods!

[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"]

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]This metalcore and numetal discussion will go on forever. Can we just conclude that it's not metal and move on with it? Why do you guys care?elite_destroyer

Well, I don't think they'd want that. I honestly don't see how it's metal, and I want to see why it should be considered metal.

BECAUSE THE FACT THAT THEY USE METAL TECHNIQUES IN THERE PLAYING STYLE??!?! God, honestly you must be one of teh dumbest people on earth to not understand that

BECAUSE THE FACT THAT THEY USE HARDCORE TECHNIQUES IN THEIR PLAYING STYLE??!?! God, honestly you must be one of "teh" dumbest people on earth to not understand that

Am I doing this right?

Mockery aside, that's the point I'm getting across, they use both Metal and Hardcore playing techniques, so I don't see how it can be considered just metal, or just hardcore. But then again, as you say, I must be one of the dumbest people on earth.

Also, Pantera is worse than AIDS. They're a bunch of redneck idiots who single-handedly destroyed 99% of metal to this day. Dimebag wasn't an exceptional guitarist by any means, and Phil Anselmo has only gone on to be a total douche bag and plague the world with one of the worst bands to ever exist, Superjoint Ritual.Episode_666

ok ok ok seriousllly!!

Almost ANY band will say something about Pantera influencing them. exceptional, just like Hendrix and Paige right?

Going by what you're saying, I still don't see how its difficult to see how metalcore/metalcore/metalcore/metalcore can just be considered its own genre.

Blood-Scribe

I mean, it can. Since genres are really just a product of subjective analyses and comparisons, theoretically anything could be a genre in its own right. But it still stands that metalcore bands by their very nature comprise strong elements of both metal AND hardcore, and therefore can be encompassed by both genre labels.

give me the link to metal archives cause the one i was on was not 100% accurate at all. and just cause they have a big record company on there side means there mainstream? lol. thats like say Black Sabbath is mainstream when they are one of metals gods! elite_destroyer

http://www.metal-archives.com/

Yes. Do you know how record companies work? Same as magazines, except instead of selling magazines, they want to sell albums. All companies motivations are profit (except non-profit organizations, dur)

Black Sabbath is mainstream.

again whats your point? just cause they added a twist to the metal genre makes them not metal? elite_destroyer

Basically, yeah, because they also combined that with a twist from hardcore. So that means it's a mix, a fusion if you will. So it's not either, it is its own thing. Is that so hard to get? I can understand if you disagree, and I encourage you to give me good reasons to think otherwise, but I don't see how calling me an idiot is going to get you anywhere here. I just don't see why it can't be its own genre.

BECAUSE THE FACT THAT THEY USE HARDCORE TECHNIQUES IN THEIR PLAYING STYLE??!?! God, honestly you must be one of "teh" dumbest people on earth to not understand that

Am I doing this right?

Mockery aside, that's the point I'm getting across, they use both Metal and Hardcore playing techniques, so I don't see how it can be considered just metal, or just hardcore. But then again, as you say, I must be one of the dumbest people on earth.

Blood-Scribe

I think you did do it right :P

I dont think I ever said it was just metal or just hardcore. But it still falls under metal because hardcore and punk were derived from earlier metal themselves. Even though it doesnt give you the same "feel" that most metal would, thats totally subjective and your opinion. Some people dont get the same feel death metal give them and the same goes for any other genre of metal, but that doesnt mean that they arent any less of a metal genre.

Also I have a question. What was this thread originally about? the best genre or band? Because the title is kinda vague and TC just listed bands.

[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"]

Going by what you're saying, I still don't see how its difficult to see how metalcore/metalcore/metalcore/metalcore can just be considered its own genre.

Episode_666

I mean, it can. Since genres are really just a product of subjective analyses and comparisons, theoretically anything could be a genre in its own right. But it still stands that metalcore bands by their very nature comprise strong elements of both metal AND hardcore, and therefore can be encompassed by both genre labels.

But I don't get why it has to be lumped as either metal or hardcore as a whole, because there's plenty of bands in the genre that draw heavier influences from either side, so then that would mean that if you classify the whole genre under one of those genres, you'd end up classifying bands that are more hardcore than anything into metal, and vice versa if the reverse were to take place, so I don't see how you can say that it's a sub-genre of metal, a sub-genre of hardcore, or a sub-genre of both. I just don't see how it can be anything but its own genre.

[QUOTE="Episode_666"]Also, Pantera is worse than AIDS. They're a bunch of redneck idiots who single-handedly destroyed 99% of metal to this day. Dimebag wasn't an exceptional guitarist by any means, and Phil Anselmo has only gone on to be a total douche bag and plague the world with one of the worst bands to ever exist, Superjoint Ritual.Aoki__

ok ok ok seriousllly!!

Almost ANY band will say something about Pantera influencing them. exceptional, just like Hendrix and Paige right?

The only bands Pantera influenced were already established bands who unfortunately chose to alter their style for the worse (see: Metallica, Sepultura, In Flames), nu-metal bands, and mallcore crap like Lamb of God and Trivium.

[QUOTE="Episode_666"]Also, Pantera is worse than AIDS. They're a bunch of redneck idiots who single-handedly destroyed 99% of metal to this day. Dimebag wasn't an exceptional guitarist by any means, and Phil Anselmo has only gone on to be a total douche bag and plague the world with one of the worst bands to ever exist, Superjoint Ritual.Aoki__

ok ok ok seriousllly!!

Almost ANY band will say something about Pantera influencing them. exceptional, just like Hendrix and Paige right?

Episode_666 You WERE sounding good until you said that.. Dimebag from pantera influenced about 99% of the metal artists up to this day look here and scroll down, and down and down.

[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"]

BECAUSE THE FACT THAT THEY USE HARDCORE TECHNIQUES IN THEIR PLAYING STYLE??!?! God, honestly you must be one of "teh" dumbest people on earth to not understand that

Am I doing this right?

Mockery aside, that's the point I'm getting across, they use both Metal and Hardcore playing techniques, so I don't see how it can be considered just metal, or just hardcore. But then again, as you say, I must be one of the dumbest people on earth.

freek666

I think you did do it right :P

I dont think I ever said it was just metal or just hardcore. But it still falls under metal because hardcore and punk were derived from earlier metal themselves. Even though it doesnt give you the same "feel" that most metal would, thats totally subjective and your opinion. Some people dont get the same feel death metal give them and the same goes for any other genre of metal, but that doesnt mean that they arent any less of a metal genre.

Also I have a question. What was this thread originally about? the best genre or band? Because the title is kinda vague and TC just listed bands.

The thread was originally about Lamb Of God being my fave band ever. No one should of posted a single thing :|

[QUOTE="Aoki__"]

[QUOTE="Episode_666"]Also, Pantera is worse than AIDS. They're a bunch of redneck idiots who single-handedly destroyed 99% of metal to this day. Dimebag wasn't an exceptional guitarist by any means, and Phil Anselmo has only gone on to be a total douche bag and plague the world with one of the worst bands to ever exist, Superjoint Ritual.elite_destroyer

ok ok ok seriousllly!!

Almost ANY band will say something about Pantera influencing them. exceptional, just like Hendrix and Paige right?

Episode_666 You WERE sounding good until you said that.. Dimebag from pantera influenced about 99% of the metal artists up to this day look here and scroll down, and down and down.

The only reason you think that is because your definition of "metal" includes some of the worst bands on the planet.

The thread was originally about Lamb Of God being my fave band ever. No one should of posted a single thing :|

Aoki__

My god, what have we done...

Also, Pantera is worse than AIDS. They're a bunch of redneck idiots who single-handedly destroyed 99% of metal to this day. Dimebag wasn't an exceptional guitarist by any means, and Phil Anselmo has only gone on to be a total douche bag and plague the world with one of the worst bands to ever exist, Superjoint Ritual.Episode_666

Who cares if they're rednecks?

Episode_666

The only reason you think that is because your definition of "metal" includes some of the worst bands on the planet.

[QUOTE="elite_destroyer"]

[QUOTE="TheTrebe"]Well i dont know if they are considerd metal but Pantera is one of my favorite bandsOPRFWrestler112

How do you not know if Pantera is metal or not? Dimebag influence most of the metal guitarists of the new aged metal scene. You would be mad not to say Pantera is'nt Metal.

Yeah, Dimebag is awesome, but weren't Pantera a glam band for about the first half of their career?

Yeah dude, that was before Pantera sold out. They were awesome before Cowboys from Hell.

[QUOTE="OPRFWrestler112"][QUOTE="elite_destroyer"]

[QUOTE="TheTrebe"]Well i dont know if they are considerd metal but Pantera is one of my favorite bandsClampdown79

How do you not know if Pantera is metal or not? Dimebag influence most of the metal guitarists of the new aged metal scene. You would be mad not to say Pantera is'nt Metal.

Yeah, Dimebag is awesome, but weren't Pantera a glam band for about the first half of their career?

Yeah dude, that was before Pantera sold out. They were awesome before Cowboys from Hell.

I hope you're joking :lol:

So, who likes Sepultura? 8)

[QUOTE="Clampdown79"][QUOTE="OPRFWrestler112"][QUOTE="elite_destroyer"]

[QUOTE="TheTrebe"]Well i dont know if they are considerd metal but Pantera is one of my favorite bandsJuggernaut140

How do you not know if Pantera is metal or not? Dimebag influence most of the metal guitarists of the new aged metal scene. You would be mad not to say Pantera is'nt Metal.

Yeah, Dimebag is awesome, but weren't Pantera a glam band for about the first half of their career?

Yeah dude, that was before Pantera sold out. They were awesome before Cowboys from Hell.

I hope you're joking :lol:

So, who likes Sepultura? 8)

Killswitch Engage is the best metal band there ever was and ever will be. Period.KH-mixerX

Blood-Scribe,let it go this time.Don't want another argument to start.Harshvardhan666

Yeah I know, I'm tired of trying to keep up with everything. I was kind of hoping this thread would sink already.

Iron Maiden, Helloween, Megadeth, Children of Bodom, Gamma Ray, Judas Priest...

Notice how I'm including bands of different genres?

Killswitch Engage is the best metal band there ever was and ever will be. Period.KH-mixerX

Is that the only metal band you've ever heard?

The Melvins... qubert27

Anyone who hasn't listened to a couple of Melvins' albums is missing out. True, raw and old school metal. Bless you. Plus you have Joy Division in your sig. You automatically win first prize in my book.

not many slayers mentionedmegahaloman64

That's because a lot of the people in here are Metalcore kids

Kids only like metalcore because its unpopular. They want to seem like some sort of unique hardcore individual who doesn't accept the mainstream crap, but instead they just listen to **** bands with little talent with instruments and even worse vocals.

For example, I asked a 16 year old, what he thought of Metallica and he said 'They're s.h.i.t'.

I asked him what bands he likes then and he replies Slipknot, Korn, A7X..' It's crazy.

BUT to be honest. I don't give a crap what music people like, As long as your enjoy it, go on pretending it sounds good. Just don't complain to me when your tired of Metalcore, and I'm still listening to Kill'Em All, Rust In Peace, Ride the Lightning, Peace Sells, Reign in Blood, Cowboys From Hell, Master of Puppets, A Vulgar Display of Power ...And Justice For All

Metallica

The new machine Head album is like art. Its amazing

Killswitch Engage is the best metal band there ever was and ever will be. Period.KH-mixerX

[QUOTE="elite_destroyer"][QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"][QUOTE="elite_destroyer"]

But i still dont understand what you mean by saying that metalcore bands arent metal because of what there influences are.. or am i misunderstanding you again?

Blood-Scribe

Well like I said before, metalcore is highly influenced by Hardcore and has a lot of elements that metal tends to exclude. A lot of fans of metal (at least from what I've seen) tend to dislike metalcore because of the image and style that it has that a lot of people who aren't in the know tend to confuse with metal. It really wouldn't be so bad if a lot of the bands that are classified as metalcore didn't get as much attention from the mainstream and if they weren't constantly mis-labled as metal. It's a bit of a "metal honor" thing, but it's just something that most of us really don't like.

Okay so your not technically saying that metalcore isnt metal but its not pure metal. But what exactally is hardcore? ist that like screamo?

No actually, I am saying that metalcore isn't metal, but at the same time, it isn't hardcore either. It's a fusion genre, so it's pretty much its own thing. It's influenced by both metal and hardcore, but it doesn't fall under either one of those genres. And hardcore is a type of punk rock, though screamo is sometimes an influence in certain metalcore bands, screamo branched off from hardcore.

[QUOTE="elite_destroyer"][QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"]

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]This metalcore and numetal discussion will go on forever. Can we just conclude that it's not metal and move on with it? Why do you guys care?Blood-Scribe

Well, I don't think they'd want that. I honestly don't see how it's metal, and I want to see why it should be considered metal.

BECAUSE THE FACT THAT THEY USE METAL TECHNIQUES IN THERE PLAYING STYLE??!?! God, honestly you must be one of teh dumbest people on earth to not understand that

BECAUSE THE FACT THAT THEY USE HARDCORE TECHNIQUES IN THEIR PLAYING STYLE??!?! God, honestly you must be one of "teh" dumbest people on earth to not understand that

Am I doing this right?

Mockery aside, that's the point I'm getting across, they use both Metal and Hardcore playing techniques, so I don't see how it can be considered just metal, or just hardcore. But then again, as you say, I must be one of the dumbest people on earth.

it's not metal, it's not punk... it just...is :o

anyways, I don't listen to a lot of metal, anymore.

Shadows Fall( Threads of Life is crap), CoB( i have a random bunch of songs, but a few of them really suck so I'm trying to narrow down the album), Scar Symmetry( no dispute here on how awesome they are 8)) and Dillinger Escape Plan( although since it is mathcore, many will argue it's closer to metalcore than real metal. Despite it probably being closer to math metal than generic metalcore :lol: ) and Pantera