BREAKING NEWS: House votes to repeal Don't ask Don't tell

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="STurn21"]Get ready to start seeing stories in the news about gays in the military getting the **** kicked out of them. Very masculine men taking showers, sleeping and living with openly gay men is a very very bad idea. Outsiders assume that life in the military is the same as civilian life.Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="STurn21"]

Get ready to start seeing stories in the news about gays in the military getting the **** kicked out of them. Very masculine men taking showers, sleeping and living with openly gay men is a very very bad idea. Outsiders assume that life in the military is the same as civilian life.

Snipes_2

That's not the point. I believe what he's bringing up or hinting at is the connotation with the rhetoric used against gays today as to how such was used against blacks decades ago, not just in regards to the military. I happen to agree.

It's the big reason why I scoff at people of black race who oppose gay marriage. If this isn't a through the looking glass moment, I don't know what is.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Hewkii"] replace gay with "black", "very masculine" with "white" and rewind to 1950. Hey President Truman, how you doing?scorch-62

From militaries that don't have a gay ban: absolutely nothing. This includes nations who actually use their military, like Great Britain and Israel.

DMAngara90

You missed my point.

Unit cohesion is unit loyalty. If gay Soldiers hit on straight Soldiers, there will be A LOT of fights.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Hewkii"] replace gay with "black", "very masculine" with "white" and rewind to 1950. Hey President Truman, how you doing?QuistisTrepe_

That's not the point. I believe what he's bringing up or hinting at is the connotation with the rhetoric used against gays today as to how such was used against blacks decades ago, not just in regards to the military. I happen to agree.

It's the big reason why I scoff at people of black race who oppose gay marriage. If this isn't a through the looking glass moment, I don't know what is.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] Can you give me an instance or two of that happening in the Military during that time?Snipes_2

That's not the point. I believe what he's bringing up or hinting at is the connotation with the rhetoric used against gays today as to how such was used against blacks decades ago, not just in regards to the military. I happen to agree.

It's the big reason why I scoff at people of black race who oppose gay marriage. If this isn't a through the looking glass moment, I don't know what is.

Not effeminate, implied inferiority.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

That's not the point. I believe what he's bringing up or hinting at is the connotation with the rhetoric used against gays today as to how such was used against blacks decades ago, not just in regards to the military. I happen to agree.

It's the big reason why I scoff at people of black race who oppose gay marriage. If this isn't a through the looking glass moment, I don't know what is.

QuistisTrepe_

Not effeminate, implied inferiority.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I'm not sure if the rhetoric is the same. Blacks were not viewed as effeminate.

Snipes_2

Not effeminate, implied inferiority.

I didn't say his example was perfect.;)

A. The "black race" doesn't exist. All homo sapiens sapiens are of the same race.

B. One's level of melanin in their skin is far different than whether or not they have sexual feelings towards other men (or other women in a lesbian's case).

STurn21

Really?

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I'm not sure if the rhetoric is the same. Blacks were not viewed as effeminate.

STurn21

Not effeminate, implied inferiority.

Homophobia is not a problem of "implied inferiority"...

No? Tell me more.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

Not effeminate, implied inferiority.

QuistisTrepe_

I didn't say his example was perfect.;)

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I don't see how "Very Masculine" comes up as Inferior. Snipes_2

I didn't say his example was perfect.;)

Really? How you forgotten that interracial marriage was illegal for a time? Do I need to bring up Jim Crow? Look at things gays cannot do: get married, in many states they can't adopt children, etc. Bigotry is still bigotry, regardless of its basis.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

I didn't say his example was perfect.;)

QuistisTrepe_

Really? How you forgotten that interracial marriage was illegal for a time? Do I need to bring up Jim Crow? Look at things gays cannot do: get married, in many states they can't adopt children, etc. Bigotry is still bigotry, regardless of its basis.

They aren't segregating Gays in the military. They are already among the personnel, they just don't want openly Gay people in there. How could I have missed his point if he made no mention of that. Plus, he also never mentioned equality. Snipes_2

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="STurn21"]

Homophobia is not a problem of "implied inferiority"...

STurn21

No? Tell me more.

Men don't feel uncomfortable showering with or sleeping in extremely close proximity to gay men because they think that gay men are below them. They do not like the fact that the person that they are showering/sleeping with most likely is thinking about them in a sexual manner.

Asking straight men to shower/sleep with gay men is exactly the same as asking straight men to shower/sleep with women.

You're splitting hairs to make a counterpoint, and frankly, it isn't working.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]They aren't segregating Gays in the military. They are already among the personnel, they just don't want openly Gay people in there. How could I have missed his point if he made no mention of that. Plus, he also never mentioned equality. scorch-62

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I still don't see the similarities though. Skin Color is different than Sexual Orientation. I'm fairly certain they are treated differently as well. Snipes_2

Really? How you forgotten that interracial marriage was illegal for a time? Do I need to bring up Jim Crow? Look at things gays cannot do: get married, in many states they can't adopt children, etc. Bigotry is still bigotry, regardless of its basis.

I'm not relating the examples one to one in case you haven't noticed. The examples provided are examples of the same mistreatment of whatever group. Why you find this so difficult to comprehend is beyond me. Like the other poster, please don't start splitting hairs to substitute for making a valid point.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]They aren't segregating Gays in the military. They are already among the personnel, they just don't want openly Gay people in there. How could I have missed his point if he made no mention of that. Plus, he also never mentioned equality. Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

Really? How you forgotten that interracial marriage was illegal for a time? Do I need to bring up Jim Crow? Look at things gays cannot do: get married, in many states they can't adopt children, etc. Bigotry is still bigotry, regardless of its basis.

QuistisTrepe_

I'm not relating the examples one to one in case you haven't noticed. The examples provided are examples of the same mistreatment of whatever group. Why you find this so difficult to comprehend is beyond me. Like the other poster, please don't start splitting hairs to substitute for making a valid point.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]They aren't segregating Gays in the military. They are already among the personnel, they just don't want openly Gay people in there. How could I have missed his point if he made no mention of that. Plus, he also never mentioned equality. scorch-62

You highlighted those exact words in my post and responded to them.Snipes_2

I don't see how "Very Masculine" comes up as Inferior. Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]You highlighted those exact words in my post and responded to them.scorch-62

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]I don't see how "Very Masculine" comes up as Inferior. Hewkii

Gays are not viewed as inferior though. Snipes_2

Do you know what inferiority is?

STurn21

Were you not implying it with your post? Why else would you highlight it and respond?Snipes_2

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="STurn21"]

Do you know what inferiority is?

STurn21

What you just described is discrimination. It has nothing to do with thinking that gays are below regular people.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]Were you not implying it with your post? Why else would you highlight it and respond?scorch-62

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]Gays are not viewed as inferior though. Hewkii

How does that make them inferior? Just because they can't have Sex publicly makes them inferior? Snipes_2

[do not have] the same privileges and rights as the general populace

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"]Gays are not viewed as inferior though. Snipes_2

Lol, I don't know why but I couldn't stop laughing after reading that. No one said they couldn't have sex publicly, they said legally.

I have much less of an issue with the gays being in the military than I do women. Unless gays get their own PT test where they have to do half as much, that is.

But the fact of the matter is that if they kept their same gender sex completely private no one would know and they would not ever be persecuted anyways.

STurn21