Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Does not compute. "Religion" is not a religion.

MrGeezer

I left it open for your choice...

Well then I'm sure you don't need me to explain to you how Christianity (for example)encompasses a set of beliefs.

Because you can't?

People can't be saved by good works alone, and Jesus died on the cross for our sins.

There, that's two beliefs of a religion.

Now, you know damn well that this differs from atheism, as this is a basis for Christian rules. Now, I'm not gonna sit around listing the beliefs of different religions while you already know what I'm telling you. I just listed a set of beliefs, and I'm done unless you're going somewhere with this.

Don't sweat it....I've won my case. Those beliefs by the way are one and the same....so no difference.

Five times the coward now. :lol:

You didn't address anything because you failed to answer the statements that dispute your ideas. For instance, the Atheistic Hindus that believe in the supernatural. Almost all of your stereotypical viewpoints have been shot down but you won't address them under the belief that if you don't address them, the don't exist.

Well they do exist, and your continual avoidance of them and the talking points just show how you are nothing more than a mindless teenager who believes more than he has learned. I want a point by point refutation not some idiotic attempt in your mind at having done so.

This is the last time I'll ask you to answer the talking points until you actually answer them, if not this will be another argument you will have lost by virtue of running away from anything you cannot address.

Atrus

Ok...five times in a row where you refused to respond to what I've already said about both of those points.:roll:

Seriously dude...read the thread. Asked and answered. Give it a rest.

[QUOTE="Atrus"]

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

LJS9502_basic

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

that doesnt make any sense, you know it, I know it, evryone does.

Following that logic, families are a religion, ideologies are religions, etc., etc...

[QUOTE="jts31689"]A religion is "a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally helnd by a group of people often codified as rayer, ritual and religious law."
I love that quote too, and how atheism fits that definition as well.moptopskate

haha nice.

wheres that in atheism?? Might as well say schools are religion, hospitals too. They fit the definition after all.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Atrus"]

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

kalossimitar

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

that doesnt make any sense, you know it, I know it, evryone does.

Following that logic, families are a religion, ideologies are religions, etc., etc...

Families no...idealogies..yes.

You never answered my question about you saying "when atheism started".

When people started to become intelligent enough to think about stuff like that they didn't believe in a god or have religion...

[QUOTE="kalossimitar"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Atrus"]

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

LJS9502_basic

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

that doesnt make any sense, you know it, I know it, evryone does.

Following that logic, families are a religion, ideologies are religions, etc., etc...

Families no...idealogies..yes.

families are social institution sharing common beliefs. So, yes, you said families are religion, try to be consistant. So are schools, from your definition. Even States.

[QUOTE="kalossimitar"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Atrus"]

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

LJS9502_basic

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

that doesnt make any sense, you know it, I know it, evryone does.

Following that logic, families are a religion, ideologies are religions, etc., etc...

Families no...idealogies..yes.

Oh what if the family all believes that apples taste good, now they're a religion right!:D I think I understand now!

Not my problem LJS. There's a difference between arguing something on a message board and reality. No matter how much of a fool you are and show yourself to be, reality will continue to prove you wrong.

It's not up to me to prove to some mindless teenager too high on his own religious belief of what reality is about. You're just fodder for those that are better suited to reality. All that you have shown is that LJS is a coward for continually avoiding points raised in various threads. This is merely the second time overall you've done so and not likely the last.

Atrus

I've never had a discussion with you where you don't force your OPINION as correct and everyone else as wrong...no matter the proof. I've proven my side with the court case. You have done nothing but reiterate your opinion as usual. The reality of today has proven me right.Check the link again dude. Court rules atheism a religion. The thing about words and ideas is that they change. Atheism has changed from the early days a few hundred years back. Atheists were isolated then and unique...no more. It has evolved into shared ideas and beliefs.

I'm far from a teenager..though I'd guess your are not so far off one....or still one.

I addressed those points...who is avoiding the answer? Oh yeah...atrus...guess that makes you what you so wish me to be. Now since you haven't made any points.....have no proof.....I'm done with you. I asked you several pages ago when I addressed your points to discuss something new.

Guess you don't have anything new to discuss. 'night.

[QUOTE="Atrus"]

Not my problem LJS. There's a difference between arguing something on a message board and reality. No matter how much of a fool you are and show yourself to be, reality will continue to prove you wrong.

It's not up to me to prove to some mindless teenager too high on his own religious belief of what reality is about. You're just fodder for those that are better suited to reality. All that you have shown is that LJS is a coward for continually avoiding points raised in various threads. This is merely the second time overall you've done so and not likely the last.

LJS9502_basic

I've never had a discussion with you where you don't force your OPINION as correct and everyone else as wrong...no matter the proof. I've proven my side with the court case. You have done nothing but reiterate your opinion as usual. The reality of today has proven me right.Check the link again dude. Court rules atheism a religion. The thing about words and ideas is that they change. Atheism has changed from the early days a few hundred years back. Atheists were isolated then and unique...no more. It has evolved into shared ideas and beliefs.

I'm far from a teenager..though I'd guess your are not so far off one....or still one.

I addressed those points...who is avoiding the answer? Oh yeah...atrus...guess that makes you what you so wish me to be. Now since you haven't made any points.....have no proof.....I'm done with you. I asked you several pages ago when I addressed your points to discuss something new.

Guess you don't have anything new to discuss. 'night.

Lol, I love how he run away to go sleep and says someone is avoiding the answer when he didnt reply back to my reply regarding his definition of religion

[QUOTE="Atrus"]

Not my problem LJS. There's a difference between arguing something on a message board and reality. No matter how much of a fool you are and show yourself to be, reality will continue to prove you wrong.

It's not up to me to prove to some mindless teenager too high on his own religious belief of what reality is about. You're just fodder for those that are better suited to reality. All that you have shown is that LJS is a coward for continually avoiding points raised in various threads. This is merely the second time overall you've done so and not likely the last.

LJS9502_basic

Atheism has changed from the early days a few hundred years back. Atheists were isolated then and unique...no more. It has evolved into shared ideas and beliefs.

The early days.. Are you talking about the middle ages or what?

ATHEISTS DONT SHARE ANY ******* IDEAS OTHER THAN THAT OF NOT BELIEVING IN GOD(s).

I thought caps might attract your attention, did it work?:)

Lol, I love how he run away to go sleep and says someone is avoiding the answer when he didnt reply back to my reply regarding his definition of religion

kalossimitar

Haven't gone to sleep....if I've answered a question and he hasn't read it that doesn't mean I'll continue to answer him over and over. I responded to someone recently.....if it wasn't you I didn't see your post.

[

The early days.. Are you talking about the middle ages or what?

ATHEISTS DONT SHARE ANY ******* IDEAS OTHER THAN THAT OF NOT BELIEVING IN GOD(s).

I thought caps might attract your attention, did it work?:)

MindFreeze

Dude......I presented my evidence. The law agreed with me. Now your opinion and caps aren't going to change that.

Atheism has changed though....

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kalossimitar"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Atrus"]

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

kalossimitar

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

that doesnt make any sense, you know it, I know it, evryone does.

Following that logic, families are a religion, ideologies are religions, etc., etc...

Families no...idealogies..yes.

families are social institution sharing common beliefs. So, yes, you said families are religion, try to be consistant. So are schools, from your definition. Even States.

Here, now, answer

[QUOTE="MindFreeze"][

The early days.. Are you talking about the middle ages or what?

ATHEISTS DONT SHARE ANY ******* IDEAS OTHER THAN THAT OF NOT BELIEVING IN GOD(s).

I thought caps might attract your attention, did it work?:)

LJS9502_basic

Dude......I presented my evidence. The law agreed with me. Now your opinion and caps aren't going to change that.

Atheism has changed though....

Atheism has always been the belief that there are no gods. You are just judging certian atheists that share ideas on evolution etc. which are probably most on this board but that doesn't mean at all that all atheists believe in the Big Bang Theory or Evolution Theory.

Law agreed with you? The guy wanted a little group but couldn't because he had to have a religion, so the judge decided to rule atheism as a religion. People did not believe in gods in the beginning of human intelligence. Now by definition that would be an atheist right? THEN came religions. Hmm..

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MindFreeze"][

The early days.. Are you talking about the middle ages or what?

ATHEISTS DONT SHARE ANY ******* IDEAS OTHER THAN THAT OF NOT BELIEVING IN GOD(s).

I thought caps might attract your attention, did it work?:)

MindFreeze

Dude......I presented my evidence. The law agreed with me. Now your opinion and caps aren't going to change that.

Atheism has changed though....

Atheism has always been the belief that there are no gods. You are just judging certian atheists that share ideas on evolution etc. which are probably most on this board but that doesn't mean at all that all atheists believe in the Big Bang Theory or Evolution Theory.

Law agreed with you? The guy wanted a little group but couldn't because he had to have a religion, so the judge decided to rule atheism as a religion. People did not believe in gods in the beginning of human intelligence. Now by definition that would be an atheist right? THEN came religions. Hmm..

Dude, I study Law, and Im smart enough to know that judges may give crap. Thats not even an argument, if you knew the number of crappy judgments.....even more with the Common Law where judges create the Law= one person decides whats good, whats bad, etc., as long as he has arguments, even if not the bests.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

I've never had a discussion with you where you don't force your OPINION as correct and everyone else as wrong...no matter the proof. I've proven my side with the court case. You have done nothing but reiterate your opinion as usual. The reality of today has proven me right.Check the link again dude. Court rules atheism a religion. The thing about words and ideas is that they change. Atheism has changed from the early days a few hundred years back. Atheists were isolated then and unique...no more. It has evolved into shared ideas and beliefs.

I'm far from a teenager..though I'd guess your are not so far off one....or still one.

I addressed those points...who is avoiding the answer? Oh yeah...atrus...guess that makes you what you so wish me to be. Now since you haven't made any points.....have no proof.....I'm done with you. I asked you several pages ago when I addressed your points to discuss something new.

Guess you don't have anything new to discuss. 'night.

Atrus

You've shown yourself to be an incompetent. Atheism didn't arise a few hundred years ago, the earliest recorded Atheists were Nastika Hindus and Chinese philosphers several thousand years ago. But like most of your arguments, you base your case on your opinions and lack of education, and have no shame for your own mindless assumptions.

You didn't address the points, I asked for specific point by point refutations not your belief that you've done so because your beliefs are nonsense and your actions nothing short of cowardly. Everything I have ever said I can support with evidence, you on the other hand have been unable to refute any argument whether by me or anyone else. You're just the crazy guy on the corner of the street, a Ted Haggard who is uninterested in facts as with his own unfounded beliefs.

Atheism as a world view is not that old. I'm referring to more modern times. The term atheism in English derived in the late 1500's...to which I was referring. That is hundreds of years...not thousands.

I answered your OPINION....where is your proof.

Fact....all atheists believe that a deity of any kind does NOT exist...or they by definition CANNOT be called atheists.

Fact...all atheists, therefore, cannot believe a diety created the world and thus, the world was created through natural law/natural events.

Fact....all atheists believe a deity did NOT create man.

Seems to be a set of similiar beliefs...anyone of which an atheist doesn't believe then he is not BY DEFINITION athests.

And again...the courts ruled atheism a religion...I think that ends this discussion. What used to be an individual belief has in fact become accepted by a large enough percentage of the population to qualify as a shared belief....belief system...vis a vis....a god/gods/deity is not responsible for the world. A god/gods/deity does not meet you in the afterlife. Death is nothing but the absence of life.

Basically, if you want to look at what you perceive as a belief system for religion...and pull it apart point by point...one can clearly state the opposite is a belief system for atheists.

I cant believe this is still going, im off to go drink or something.

Anyway, basic, you use the court case to make your argument for you because you have none and never will.

You give athiests a bad name, you are a coward and full of yourself, niether of which is good incase you have the false notion it is. Your arguments are mindless and unsupported, and your statements laughable. I suggest if you wish to make a decent argument in the future that you have a little more knowledge on the subject matter and debate as an intellectual, not as some high school know it all. And if you arent a teenager, i suggest you grow up, and do it fast.

I think it all depends on the atheist if it becomes a religion or not. Atheism has two different meanings.. someone who believes there is no god.. that would mean that the person has faith in his or her beliefs. Claiming that there is no god does label you as a religious person, in a sense. However, you can also not believe in a god. That would mean that you're not claiming to know that there is no god, it would imply that you don't see a god.

It can be an outlook on philosophy, that is why the courts labeled it as a religion, but it doesn't have to be that way. An atheist doesn't have to care about the creation of the universe. An atheist doesn't have to avoid faith. There are only two options for every atheist, to believe that there is no god, or to not believe in a god. There's a huge difference between those two definitions and once you understand them, you will understand why atheism can be a religion and why it doesn't have to be.

[QUOTE="MindFreeze"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MindFreeze"][

The early days.. Are you talking about the middle ages or what?

ATHEISTS DONT SHARE ANY ******* IDEAS OTHER THAN THAT OF NOT BELIEVING IN GOD(s).

I thought caps might attract your attention, did it work?:)

kalossimitar

Dude......I presented my evidence. The law agreed with me. Now your opinion and caps aren't going to change that.

Atheism has changed though....

Atheism has always been the belief that there are no gods. You are just judging certian atheists that share ideas on evolution etc. which are probably most on this board but that doesn't mean at all that all atheists believe in the Big Bang Theory or Evolution Theory.

Law agreed with you? The guy wanted a little group but couldn't because he had to have a religion, so the judge decided to rule atheism as a religion. People did not believe in gods in the beginning of human intelligence. Now by definition that would be an atheist right? THEN came religions. Hmm..

Dude, I study Law, and Im smart enough to know that judges may give crap. Thats not even an argument, if you knew the number of crappy judgments.....even more with the Common Law where judges create the Law= one person decides whats good, whats bad, etc., as long as he has arguments, even if not the bests.

Doesn't matter...it's now law. And guess who brought the case? An atheist that perceived his belief as religion. Since he wanted a study group...one can assume he is not alone.

Can you prove that man did not believe in gods from the start? According to some religions...and that is what we have to go one....they certainly did. Besides there would be no need of a word such as atheist if in fact....religion did not already exist. Hmmm...

I cant believe this is still going, im off to go drink or something.

Anyway, basic, you use the court case to make your argument for you because you have none and never will.

You give athiests a bad name, you are a coward and full of yourself, niether of which is good incase you have the false notion it is. Your arguments are mindless and unsupported, and your statements laughable. I suggest if you wish to make a decent argument in the future that you have a little more knowledge on the subject matter and debate as an intellectual, not as some high school know it all. And if you arent a teenager, i suggest you grow up, and do it fast.

Happyphilter

dude, quote or name, we dont know who the hell youre talkin about

[QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

I've never had a discussion with you where you don't force your OPINION as correct and everyone else as wrong...no matter the proof. I've proven my side with the court case. You have done nothing but reiterate your opinion as usual. The reality of today has proven me right.Check the link again dude. Court rules atheism a religion. The thing about words and ideas is that they change. Atheism has changed from the early days a few hundred years back. Atheists were isolated then and unique...no more. It has evolved into shared ideas and beliefs.

I'm far from a teenager..though I'd guess your are not so far off one....or still one.

I addressed those points...who is avoiding the answer? Oh yeah...atrus...guess that makes you what you so wish me to be. Now since you haven't made any points.....have no proof.....I'm done with you. I asked you several pages ago when I addressed your points to discuss something new.

Guess you don't have anything new to discuss. 'night.

LJS9502_basic

You've shown yourself to be an incompetent. Atheism didn't arise a few hundred years ago, the earliest recorded Atheists were Nastika Hindus and Chinese philosphers several thousand years ago. But like most of your arguments, you base your case on your opinions and lack of education, and have no shame for your own mindless assumptions.

You didn't address the points, I asked for specific point by point refutations not your belief that you've done so because your beliefs are nonsense and your actions nothing short of cowardly. Everything I have ever said I can support with evidence, you on the other hand have been unable to refute any argument whether by me or anyone else. You're just the crazy guy on the corner of the street, a Ted Haggard who is uninterested in facts as with his own unfounded beliefs.

Atheism as a world view is not that old. I'm referring to more modern times. The term atheism in English derived in the late 1500's...to which I was referring. That is hundreds of years...not thousands.

I answered your OPINION....where is your proof.

Fact....all atheists believe that a deity of any kind does NOT exist...or they by definition CANNOT be called atheists.

Fact...all atheists, therefore, cannot believe a diety created the world and thus, the world was created through natural law/natural events.

Fact....all atheists believe a deity did NOT create man.

Seems to be a set of similiar beliefs...anyone of which an atheist doesn't believe then he is not BY DEFINITION athests.

And again...the courts ruled atheism a religion...I think that ends this discussion. What used to be an individual belief has in fact become accepted by a large enough percentage of the population to qualify as a shared belief....belief system...vis a vis....a god/gods/deity is not responsible for the world. A god/gods/deity does not meet you in the afterlife. Death is nothing but the absence of life.

Basically, if you want to look at what you perceive as a belief system for religion...and pull it apart point by point...one can clearly state the opposite is a belief system for atheists.

I cant believe this is still going, im off to go drink or something.

Anyway, basic, you use the court case to make your argument for you because you have none and never will.

You give athiests a bad name, you are a coward and full of yourself, niether of which is good incase you have the false notion it is. Your arguments are mindless and unsupported, and your statements laughable. I suggest if you wish to make a decent argument in the future that you have a little more knowledge on the subject matter and debate as an intellectual, not as some high school know it all. And if you arent a teenager, i suggest you grow up, and do it fast.

Happyphilter

I'm the only one in this thread that presented any evidence. And for the record....I linked to several different definitions of religion...some of which included atheism and some of which didn't. I stated all along it depended on the definition in use. And the court case clearly undermines you...and others in this thread. Of course, since no one has any evidence...they insult me. Doesn't change the fact that whether you agree with me or not....I presented the ONLY proof in this thread.

[QUOTE="kalossimitar"][QUOTE="MindFreeze"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MindFreeze"][

The early days.. Are you talking about the middle ages or what?

ATHEISTS DONT SHARE ANY ******* IDEAS OTHER THAN THAT OF NOT BELIEVING IN GOD(s).

I thought caps might attract your attention, did it work?:)

LJS9502_basic

Dude......I presented my evidence. The law agreed with me. Now your opinion and caps aren't going to change that.

Atheism has changed though....

Atheism has always been the belief that there are no gods. You are just judging certian atheists that share ideas on evolution etc. which are probably most on this board but that doesn't mean at all that all atheists believe in the Big Bang Theory or Evolution Theory.

Law agreed with you? The guy wanted a little group but couldn't because he had to have a religion, so the judge decided to rule atheism as a religion. People did not believe in gods in the beginning of human intelligence. Now by definition that would be an atheist right? THEN came religions. Hmm..

Dude, I study Law, and Im smart enough to know that judges may give crap. Thats not even an argument, if you knew the number of crappy judgments.....even more with the Common Law where judges create the Law= one person decides whats good, whats bad, etc., as long as he has arguments, even if not the bests.

Doesn't matter...it's now law. And guess who brought the case? An atheist that perceived his belief as religion. Since he wanted a study group...one can assume he is not alone.

Can you prove that man did not believe in gods from the start? According to some religions...and that is what we have to go one....they certainly did. Besides there would be no need of a word such as atheist if in fact....religion did not already exist. Hmmm...

I stopped reading after that. Just one word: "wow", no wonder it came out of a religious guy's mouth, after all, questioning isnt your strength, to you theists

Edit:WTH, you say atheism is a religion, but from what I hear from other users, youre an atheist, WTF!!??!?!?!??!?!?!

[QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

I've never had a discussion with you where you don't force your OPINION as correct and everyone else as wrong...no matter the proof. I've proven my side with the court case. You have done nothing but reiterate your opinion as usual. The reality of today has proven me right.Check the link again dude. Court rules atheism a religion. The thing about words and ideas is that they change. Atheism has changed from the early days a few hundred years back. Atheists were isolated then and unique...no more. It has evolved into shared ideas and beliefs.

I'm far from a teenager..though I'd guess your are not so far off one....or still one.

I addressed those points...who is avoiding the answer? Oh yeah...atrus...guess that makes you what you so wish me to be. Now since you haven't made any points.....have no proof.....I'm done with you. I asked you several pages ago when I addressed your points to discuss something new.

Guess you don't have anything new to discuss. 'night.

LJS9502_basic

You've shown yourself to be an incompetent. Atheism didn't arise a few hundred years ago, the earliest recorded Atheists were Nastika Hindus and Chinese philosphers several thousand years ago. But like most of your arguments, you base your case on your opinions and lack of education, and have no shame for your own mindless assumptions.

You didn't address the points, I asked for specific point by point refutations not your belief that you've done so because your beliefs are nonsense and your actions nothing short of cowardly. Everything I have ever said I can support with evidence, you on the other hand have been unable to refute any argument whether by me or anyone else. You're just the crazy guy on the corner of the street, a Ted Haggard who is uninterested in facts as with his own unfounded beliefs.

Fact....all atheists believe that a deity of any kind does NOT exist...or they by definition CANNOT be called atheists.

Fact...all atheists, therefore, cannot believe a diety created the world and thus, the world was created through natural law/natural events.

Fact....all atheists believe a deity did NOT create man.

Seems to be a set of similiar beliefs...anyone of which an atheist doesn't believe then he is not BY DEFINITION athests.

Those are all just the same but worded a little different. the same thing.

Ex.: Christians believe God created everything, Christians believe God created man, Christians believe God created plants. Etc...

AGAIN for the millionth time, not all atheists believe in the Evolution Theory or the Big Bang Theory.

[

all those facts are still saying just one thing. and that's that atheists don't believe in a deity. re-wording in doesn't change it.dooly420

And had you been here for the entire thread...you'd know I did that since believing in God is exactly one thing as well. That is believing that God exists.

Yet....because atheists don't wish to be called religion they break up the beliefs as thus. Beause really...religion in the conventional sense comes down to belief in God...period.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kalossimitar"][QUOTE="MindFreeze"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MindFreeze"][

The early days.. Are you talking about the middle ages or what?

ATHEISTS DONT SHARE ANY ******* IDEAS OTHER THAN THAT OF NOT BELIEVING IN GOD(s).

I thought caps might attract your attention, did it work?:)

kalossimitar

Dude......I presented my evidence. The law agreed with me. Now your opinion and caps aren't going to change that.

Atheism has changed though....

Atheism has always been the belief that there are no gods. You are just judging certian atheists that share ideas on evolution etc. which are probably most on this board but that doesn't mean at all that all atheists believe in the Big Bang Theory or Evolution Theory.

Law agreed with you? The guy wanted a little group but couldn't because he had to have a religion, so the judge decided to rule atheism as a religion. People did not believe in gods in the beginning of human intelligence. Now by definition that would be an atheist right? THEN came religions. Hmm..

Dude, I study Law, and Im smart enough to know that judges may give crap. Thats not even an argument, if you knew the number of crappy judgments.....even more with the Common Law where judges create the Law= one person decides whats good, whats bad, etc., as long as he has arguments, even if not the bests.

Doesn't matter...it's now law. And guess who brought the case? An atheist that perceived his belief as religion. Since he wanted a study group...one can assume he is not alone.

Can you prove that man did not believe in gods from the start? According to some religions...and that is what we have to go one....they certainly did. Besides there would be no need of a word such as atheist if in fact....religion did not already exist. Hmmm...

I stopped reading after that. Just one word: "wow", no wonder it came out of a religious guy's mouth, after all, questioning isnt your strength, to you theists

Haha yes wow.

LJS, you seriously think people instantly believed in a God right after we gained enough intelligence (through evolution, OH **** you don't believe in that ofcourse! Man was always the same!)

[

Those are all just the same but worded a little different. the same thing.

Ex.: Christians believe God created everything, Christians believe God created man, Christians believe God created plants. Etc...

AGAIN for the millionth time, not all atheists believe in the Evolution Theory or the Big Bang Theory.

MindFreeze

And therefore, atheism is on a par with "religion".....you don't see the logic? And for the millionith time....I never said atheists had to believe in evolution or big bang. I said they didn't believe a god was responsible. Subtle...yet important difference....

[QUOTE="dooly420"][

all those facts are still saying just one thing. and that's that atheists don't believe in a deity. re-wording in doesn't change it.LJS9502_basic

And had you been here for the entire thread...you'd know I did that since believing in God is exactly one thing as well. That is believing that God exists.

Yet....because atheists don't wish to be called religion they break up the beliefs as thus. Beause really...religion in the conventional sense comes down to belief in God...period.

Yeah, but believing in god isn't a religion either.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="dooly420"][

all those facts are still saying just one thing. and that's that atheists don't believe in a deity. re-wording in doesn't change it.MrGeezer

And had you been here for the entire thread...you'd know I did that since believing in God is exactly one thing as well. That is believing that God exists.

Yet....because atheists don't wish to be called religion they break up the beliefs as thus. Beause really...religion in the conventional sense comes down to belief in God...period.

Yeah, but believing in god isn't a religion either.

LOOK! SOMEONE GETS IT!

Doesn't matter...it's now law. And guess who brought the case? An atheist that perceived his belief as religion. Since he wanted a study group...one can assume he is not alone.

Can you prove that man did not believe in gods from the start? According to some religions...and that is what we have to go one....they certainly did. Besides there would be no need of a word such as atheist if in fact....religion did not already exist. Hmmm...

LJS9502_basic

The atheist can perceive his belief as a religion.. that doesn't mean that everyone else must. The court case also doesn't matter. As stated before, it's still just one opinion and the judge's ruling doesn't change the fact that atheism can be a lack of belief.

No, we would need a better source for that information. Of course most religions would say that man believed in god from the start, they have an agenda. You would need unbiased proof that man believed in god from the very beginning. In my opinion, I can see why that would be true. Man has always created stories for how we came to be, a supernatural power isn't a hard concept to understand. It's very simple. A powerful being, above everything we know (nature) created everything. I would have to assume that the first people who pondered their origins believed in that since they didn't understand evolution or the possibility of life originating from non-living chemical reactions.

Atheist wouldn't have been around if theism wasn't here in the first place, that's very true.. but the meaning of atheism doesn't die off if theism does. It means you don't believe in a supernatural entity. That means that if all religions in the world died off and were forgotten about, everyone would become an atheist. It doesn't mean atheism would suddenly cease to exist. Of all people, I would expect you to understand this, I find it shocking that you would actually bring that up.

[QUOTE="kalossimitar"]

I stopped reading after that. Just one word: "wow", no wonder it came out of a religious guy's mouth, after all, questioning isnt your strength, to you theists

MindFreeze

Haha yes wow.

LJS, you seriously think people instantly believed in a God right after we gained enough intelligence (through evolution, OH **** you don't believe in that ofcourse! Man was always the same!)

Words and meanings change and adapt with life. Atheism has become to some a religion. Period. You can't state otherwise as that would be false.

Am I religious? I haven't expressed a personal belief in this thread...other than that atheism has become a religion.

Actually people believed in God prior to believing in evolution so I don't know where you are going with that. Nonetheless, man has believed in various forms that "something" exists out there for as long as man has existed. If you have proof to the contrary....present it now.

The atheist can perceive his belief as a religion.. that doesn't mean that everyone else must. The court case also doesn't matter. As stated before, it's still just one opinion and the judge's ruling doesn't change the fact that atheism can be a lack of belief.

No, we would need a better source for that information. Of course most religions would say that man believed in god from the start, they have an agenda. You would need unbiased proof that man believed in god from the very beginning. In my opinion, I can see why that would be true. Man has always created stories for how we came to be, a supernatural power isn't a hard concept to understand. It's very simple. A powerful being, above everything we know (nature) created everything. I would have to assume that the first people who pondered their origins believed in that since they didn't understand evolution or the possibility of life originating from non-living chemical reactions.

Atheist wouldn't have been around if theism wasn't here in the first place, that's very true.. but the meaning of atheism doesn't die off if theism does. It means you don't believe in a supernatural entity. That means that if all religions in the world died off and were forgotten about, everyone would become an atheist. It doesn't mean atheism would suddenly cease to exist. Of all people, I would expect you to understand this, I find it shocking that you would actually bring that up.

DeeJayInphinity

I stated several times in this thread....some not all atheists. I also stated that meanings change and original meanings become blurred. Actually if theism died off....atheism would be forgotten as well since there would be no reason to use such a word.....not right away...but in time. I don't know what you think I brought up....I simply said the word was created as a counterpoint...and it was.:?

Yeah, but believing in god isn't a religion either.

MrGeezer

I said that pages ago.....

Words and meanings change and adapt with life. Atheism has become to some a religion. Period. You can't state otherwise as that would be false.

Am I religious? I haven't expressed a personal belief in this thread...other than that atheism has become a religion.

Actually people believed in God prior to believing in evolution so I don't know where you are going with that. Nonetheless, man has believed in various forms that "something" exists out there for as long as man has existed. If you have proof to the contrary....present it now.

LJS9502_basic

Ahh.. contradicting yourself..by "something exists out there," I assume you're talking about a supernatural entitity.. well, aren't you supposed to present proof supporting your statement?Don't you have a huge argument about this every single time someone says that there is no proof for a god?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Words and meanings change and adapt with life. Atheism has become to some a religion. Period. You can't state otherwise as that would be false.

Am I religious? I haven't expressed a personal belief in this thread...other than that atheism has become a religion.

Actually people believed in God prior to believing in evolution so I don't know where you are going with that. Nonetheless, man has believed in various forms that "something" exists out there for as long as man has existed. If you have proof to the contrary....present it now.

DeeJayInphinity

Ahh.. contradicting yourself..by "something exists out there," I assume you're talking about a supernatural entitity.. well, aren't you supposed to present proof supporting your statement?Don't you have a huge argument about this every single time someone says that there is no proof for a god?

I said man believed.....you know Roman and Greek gods.....Celtic gods etc.:|

I stated several times in this thread....some not all atheists. I also stated that meanings change and original meanings become blurred. Actually if theism died off....atheism would be forgotten as well since there would be no reason to use such a word.....not right away...but in time. I don't know what you think I brought up....I simply said the word was created as a counterpoint...and it was.:?

LJS9502_basic

I know you've been saying that, I was just trying to agree with you. People are still getting the sense that you're arguing that every atheist is a religious person simply for being an atheist.

I interpreted that as a way of you saying that it is a religion because atheism came as a result of theism. If you didn't, then why bring it up? Whatever, if that wasn't your intention, I misunderstood you and there's no reason to keep arguing about it.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

I stated several times in this thread....some not all atheists. I also stated that meanings change and original meanings become blurred. Actually if theism died off....atheism would be forgotten as well since there would be no reason to use such a word.....not right away...but in time. I don't know what you think I brought up....I simply said the word was created as a counterpoint...and it was.:?

DeeJayInphinity

I know you've been saying that, I was just trying to agree with you. People are still getting the sense that you're arguing that every atheist is a religious person simply for being an atheist.

I interpreted that as a way of you saying that it is a religion because atheism came as a result of theism. If you didn't, then why bring it up? Whatever, if that wasn't your intention, I misunderstood you and there's no reason to keep arguing about it.

Uh...no it didn't become a religion because of theism...it exists because of theism...if that clears it up.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Atheism as a world view is not that old. I'm referring to more modern times. The term atheism in English derived in the late 1500's...to which I was referring. That is hundreds of years...not thousands.

I answered your OPINION....where is your proof.

1. Fact....all atheists believe that a deity of any kind does NOT exist...or they by definition CANNOT be called atheists.

2. Fact...all atheists, therefore, cannot believe a diety created the world and thus, the world was created through natural law/natural events.

3. Fact....all atheists believe a deity did NOT create man.

Seems to be a set of similiar beliefs...anyone of which an atheist doesn't believe then he is not BY DEFINITION athests.

And again...the courts ruled atheism a religion...I think that ends this discussion. What used to be an individual belief has in fact become accepted by a large enough percentage of the population to qualify as a shared belief....belief system...vis a vis....a god/gods/deity is not responsible for the world. A god/gods/deity does not meet you in the afterlife. Death is nothing but the absence of life.

Basically, if you want to look at what you perceive as a belief system for religion...and pull it apart point by point...one can clearly state the opposite is a belief system for atheists.

Atrus

You weren't referring to modern times you referred to it's early days which means you are wrong. You didn't answer my opinion, you answered my educated knowledge for which you can pull any number of references to Atheism in Hinduism.

http://horizonspeaks.wordpress.com/2007/05/18/atheism-in-ancient-india/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism

You only call it my opinion because you are not only too lazy to look it up for yourself, and have a poor understanding of anything you talk about.

1. Correct. Atheists do not believe in a God.

2. False. Atheists do not believe a God created the world/universe but that does not mean they cannot attribute the creation of reality to other supernatural events or beings. Here you commit a logic error in that Gods are presumed to be the only supernatural force to create the universe. It does not take into account beliefs such as animists who believe in The Dreaming and the spirit world to Hindu beliefs of the creation of reality through the interaction of nature and spirit.

Additionally, you foolishly assume that all beliefs rely on the creation of the universe. Atheist Hindu schools like Carvaka cite that the Universe has always been.

3. True. Atheists do not believe a God created man, but again you commit a logic era by ignoring other possibilities that man has always been, aliens created us, magic, spontaneous generation, or that it arose from or interactions with the spirit realm.

You continually make stupid associations that if God is not attributed to something, it must mean a specific other condition such as a naturalistic worldview. You are incompetently trying to turn an umbrella class called Atheism into a religion while ignoring the fact that Theism, the other umbrella classification is not. In your small minded worldview, Raelians, Atheistic Hindu's, Atheistic Buddhists, all those I've mentioned before and more are all the same religion.

It's nothing but pathetic special pleading for the world to adhere to your baseless outlook, a cowardly one that avoids countering points raised against it.

I was referring to exactly what I said I was referring to.....:| Atheism in modern times became pronounced in the 1500's....look it up.

Not false vis a vis belief in a God. If you don't...by definition...believe in a God...you don't...by definition believe he created the world. Come now....that doesn't even make sense.:lol:

Aliens? An atheist that must have proof of a god should not believe in aliens....no proof and all.:|

My statement was simple.....it refers to GOD....get it? I'm not discussing anything else since atheism refers to a lack of belief in a god/gods/deity. I'm sticking to the topic....you should do the same. It does not advance your argument to create extranewous discussion having no merit in this topic. If you wish to discuss another topic I suggest you create a thread dedicated to it.

I've countered all the points you've made easily, correctly and without insulting you. Something you are continually unable to do....

It's more like calling it a hair style, i think. But what about agnosticsm?jaybobi92

Calling atheism religion is like calling barefoot a shoe style.

1. If you even believe the world was created at all or attribute creation to things other than God.

2. Again, this is your foolish assumption. Raelians consider themselves Atheists and in fact have taken the blasphemy challenge several times as can be seen on Youtube. Your limited mindset fails to realize that Atheism is only a statement and within this umbrella can lie any sane or insane belief system so long as they do not believe a God exists.

This is your mistake and your damnation.

Now you are trying to avoid answering the points in a different manner. You are wrong, and are too cowardly to address the points raised or admit you've made a fool of yourself. I'm not insulting you, I'm merely making a statement that reflects reality.

Atrus

Blah blah blah.....more of the same. Again no proof but opinion and insults. As for the alien thing....I wasn't saying an atheist couldn't believe...it's hypocritical to do so nonetheless.