Can my teacher do this? (pledge of allegiance)

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]how about this.. after class go burn some flags outside. you'll be perfectly within your rights to do so. that will help you get out some of that pent up rage for having to remain vertical for 30 seconds and spout out some syllables..foxhound_fox

I'm pretty sure there is not

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

battlefront23

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying you're evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being an d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disprect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

But since when does standing=respect? Why should this action detemine on what level his patriotism or respect is for those who fought for freedom.

Did anybody else get a lul or two out of this? I sure did.

...with some photoshop magic

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

battlefront23

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying you're evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being an d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disprect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

[QUOTE="mfacek"][QUOTE="FrKnPuertoRican"][QUOTE="achilles614"][QUOTE="FrKnPuertoRican"][QUOTE="mfacek"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Do it and when you do it think of the marines that have died for this country. That way you're not doing it out of obligation but out of respect for those brave men and women who died so you could have the right to choose to salute the flag or not. ;)FrKnPuertoRican

He is choosing not to, they died for his right to.

I know a lot of marines who would love to beat his ass for the disrespect.

You seriously think I'm some anti-american disrespectful little jerk. I was born and raised in Texas, and support America in most situations. I guess because I think for myself I'm going to get my ass beat by some marine :lol:

I did not say i was a tough guy,I did not say you would get beat up by marines, but i have two brothers and a father who are or were marines. I have no doubt that they would enjoy teaching you a very powerful lesson, but they won't so don't worry. I don't care where you were born and raised, and you obviously do not support america if you refuse to give the pledge. Thinking for yourself has nothing to do with it, it is about respecting your country and those who serve it.

He respects those that served by utilizing his right to free speech. The right that every single U.S. servicemen has ever died for. Forcing someone to salute the flag is a disgrace, and completely degrades every serviceman that has ever died.

CHOOSING to salute the flag is patriotic.

BEING FORCED TO proves absolutely nothing and is un-American.

And saying that if you don't salute the flag you don't support America is just pathetic. Ever think that some people can't for religious reasons? Ever think that some people are morally against it? This isn't "un-American", it's just utilizing your right to free speech.

I read the first line and that is a load of crap. Using free speech is not respecting anyone. He could use his free speech to spread hate and try to destroy america. I'm sure you would argue he is being respectful there, but you have powerful foes in common sense and logic. The fact that he uses his freedom to disrespect instead of respect shows what an ungrateful person he is. I wish i could say worse but i'd be modded for sure.

That kind of talk is inherently un-American.

Thousands of U.S. servicemen died for his right to not salute the flag, forcing him to disgraces those sacrifices.

I don't think you really understand my point, he is being FORCED to salute the flag. This goes against everything U.S. servicemen have died for.

I'll say it again....

CHOOSING to salute the flag is patriotic.

BEING FORCED TO proves absolutely nothing and is un-American.

I'm not saying if he utilized free speech to preach racism and anti-American sentiment that would "respect" America and it's fallen soldiers.

But I am saying that taking away his free speech goes against EVERYTHING they died for.

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

battlefront23

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying he's evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being a d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disrespect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

The problem here isn't that she is having you all stand, it's that she is deducting points everyday for those who stand teh latest. that is completely unfair.

You should stand (don't pledge if ya don't want to), but the teacher should be reported for deducting points everyday for a silly reason.

I believe she can make you stand but she cannot make you salute to the flag or recite it. Dark_Knight6

That's what I've heard.

[QUOTE="mfacek"]

That analogy makes absolutely no sense in this situation.

FrKnPuertoRican

Good point! To say you respect someone or something and then be disrespectful towards them is contradictory.

It's a lot different when the thing you are "disrespectful" towards stands for your right to be as "disrespectful" as you want. Then add the fact that hundreds of thousands of men and women died for your right to be "disrespectful" and we have a bit of a conundrum don't we?

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

DeeJayInphinity

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying you're evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being an d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disprect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

I never said he had to, I said if he's not a d-bag he won't. See the difference? He should salute simply because he even has a choice not to and because of those marines who died for him. I don't understand what's up with modern American thinking. Why WOULDN'T you salute what the Amercian flag stands for?

Ok in my Tech class, I have this teacher who if you're the last person to stand up during the pledge of allegiance or don't stand up at all, she deducts points from your grade. I think that's absolutely assinine because first off it's a class of mostly seniors (12th grade), and because where does it say that we have to pledge.

Next time I'm in her class I'm not standing up at all (it's required to graduate so that's why I haven't been messing with her) and if she takes points off my grade I'll report her if I can.

This isn't the only time I've seen an overly patriotic teacher impose the pledge on students and I'm sure some of you OTers have seen it too. So can she do this? All comments and discussion welcome.

achilles614

I would do the same exact thing.

[QUOTE="Hoobinator"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Hoobinator"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

battlefront23

Stop with the asinine BS. Seriously you're sounding like a nationalist not a patriot.

"Well if you don't bend over backwards and salute the flag with all the love and devotion that it requires it's like a spit in the face of everyone who ever happened to live and die within the blessed homeland. You can only be patriotic if you do as you're told like a marine."

Standing for my fellow country's courage to die for me is asinine BS? What you're proving is how full of BS you are.

You're effectively resorting to use of emotion in your arguments, and to top it off your arguments of showing allegaince because others did so is resorting to herd mentality thinking. Classic signs of nationalism, not patriotism. Nationalism is hyper patriotism.

I wrote a very nice thread a few months back on modern day patriotism. I think you should scoure the board and find it, it's a well presented argument as to why hyper-patriotism fails and why patriotism itself needs to be kept in check.

Blind Patriotism by Hoobinator.

You're sounding like an arrogant a-hole. See I can do it too. ;) I'm saying how about not being a d-bag and standing for the flag, but for some people it require too much effort I guess. Standing for thirty seconds and putting your hand over your heart is so much exertion for your body, you know? :roll:

Wow, every single counter-argument made in this thread has completely gone over your head hasn't it?

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

achilles614

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying he's evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being a d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disrespect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

Next time, read my post. Specifically the part that says "for them" (marines who died for you).

I'm laying down 50 bucks that everyone here backs our military to a respectful extent.

No one here is advocating disrespecting people while being a hypocrite.

But we aren't douchebags, so we don't force people to conform to OUR beliefs. That's WHY the military exists, so we can do what we want.

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]I believe she can make you stand but she cannot make you salute to the flag or recite it. abdelmessih101

That's what I've heard.

She also has no right deducting points for something like that. Really, TC, report her.

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

battlefront23

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying he's evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being a d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disrespect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

they didn't fight for him to stand and salute the flag. they fought for his right to do either. there is a HUGE difference there you're not seeing.

That kind of talk is inherently un-American.

Thousands of U.S. servicemen died for his right to not salute the flag, forcing him to disgraces those sacrifices.

I don't think you really understand my point, he is being FORCED to salute the flag. This goes against everything U.S. servicemen have died for.

I'll say it again....

CHOOSING to salute the flag is patriotic.

BEING FORCED TO proves absolutely nothing and is un-American.

I'm not saying if he utilized free speech to preach racism and anti-American sentiment that would "respect" America and it's fallen soldiers.

But I am saying that taking away his free speech goes against EVERYTHING they died for.

mfacek

I agree that he should not be forced too. It just pisses me off that he won't, just to ty and prove that he does not have to or whatever noble cause he thinks he is representing. He won't even stand up for a few moments for his country and freedom, i'm sure he has stood for much less.

[QUOTE="achilles614"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

battlefront23

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying he's evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being a d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disrespect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

Next time, read my post. Specifically the part that says "for them (marines who died for you).

Why only Marines?

You're sounding like an arrogant a-hole. See I can do it too. ;) I'm saying how about not being a d-bag and standing for the flag, but for some people it require too much effort I guess. Standing for thirty seconds and putting your hand over your heart is so much exertion for your body, you know? :roll:

battlefront23

And the simple retort to this piece of coercion which is exactly what the teacher wanted him to do, is to simply say no, I am within my rights not to stand up and I should not have my grades deducted.

You see that's where the teacher majorly fails, by using the grades as a means of punishment and thus coercing the students into doing a voluntary act. It ceases to be voluntary.

There could be a thousand and one reasons for not standing up, no one should be punished for not saluting a secular flag.

eh her class her rules but the problem is somebody always gets points off this way and i'd like to think that when her rules are idiotic she can be overruledSerraph105

Agreed. With her rules, everytime the pledge is said, someone's grade would be getting a deduction.

Ok in my Tech class, I have this teacher who if you're the last person to stand up during the pledge of allegiance or don't stand up at all, she deducts points from your grade. I think that's absolutely assinine because first off it's a class of mostly seniors (12th grade), and because where does it say that we have to pledge.

Next time I'm in her class I'm not standing up at all (it's required to graduate so that's why I haven't been messing with her) and if she takes points off my grade I'll report her if I can.

This isn't the only time I've seen an overly patriotic teacher impose the pledge on students and I'm sure some of you OTers have seen it too. So can she do this? All comments and discussion welcome.

achilles614

I dont think she can force you to do it amd I know for a FACT that she definitley cannot deduct points from your grade. I'm not sure if this is a nationwide rule, but in my school handbook, it states very clearly that grades CAN NOT be lowered as a disicplinary measure. So if she does that to you, you need to tell someone.

I never said he had to, I said if he's not a d-bag he won't. See the difference? He should salute simply because he even has a choice not to and because of those marines who died for him. I don't understand what's up with modern American thinking. Why WOULDN'T you salute what the Amercian flag stands for?

battlefront23

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Hoobinator"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Hoobinator"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

mfacek

Stop with the asinine BS. Seriously you're sounding like a nationalist not a patriot.

"Well if you don't bend over backwards and salute the flag with all the love and devotion that it requires it's like a spit in the face of everyone who ever happened to live and die within the blessed homeland. You can only be patriotic if you do as you're told like a marine."

Standing for my fellow country's courage to die for me is asinine BS? What you're proving is how full of BS you are.

You're effectively resorting to use of emotion in your arguments, and to top it off your arguments of showing allegaince because others did so is resorting to herd mentality thinking. Classic signs of nationalism, not patriotism. Nationalism is hyper patriotism.

I wrote a very nice thread a few months back on modern day patriotism. I think you should scoure the board and find it, it's a well presented argument as to why hyper-patriotism fails and why patriotism itself needs to be kept in check.

Blind Patriotism by Hoobinator.

You're sounding like an arrogant a-hole. See I can do it too. ;) I'm saying how about not being a d-bag and standing for the flag, but for some people it require too much effort I guess. Standing for thirty seconds and putting your hand over your heart is so much exertion for your body, you know? :roll:

Wow, every single counter-argument made in this thread has completely gone over your head hasn't it?

Counter argument? He merely called me a nationalist, which I'm not. He's saying that choosing to salute for freedom's sake is nationalism which is complete and utter BS. I also like how people assumed that I said he should be forced to salute the flag. I never once said that. I said he should it or else he's a d-bag.

[QUOTE="mfacek"]

That kind of talk is inherently un-American.

Thousands of U.S. servicemen died for his right to not salute the flag, forcing him to disgraces those sacrifices.

I don't think you really understand my point, he is being FORCED to salute the flag. This goes against everything U.S. servicemen have died for.

I'll say it again....

CHOOSING to salute the flag is patriotic.

BEING FORCED TO proves absolutely nothing and is un-American.

I'm not saying if he utilized free speech to preach racism and anti-American sentiment that would "respect" America and it's fallen soldiers.

But I am saying that taking away his free speech goes against EVERYTHING they died for.

FrKnPuertoRican

I agree that he should not be forced too. It just pisses me off that he won't, just to ty and prove that he does not have to or whatever noble cause he thinks he is representing. He won't even stand up for a few moments for his country and freedom, i'm sure he has stood for much less.

I'm glad we agree being forced to is asinine. I agree that you should. Standing up and saluting the flag IS the respectfull thing to do, but the teacher completely oversteps her bounds, infringes on his rights, and disrespects every single U.S. servicemen that has ever fought for the U.S. when she forces him too.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

You're sounding like an arrogant a-hole. See I can do it too. ;) I'm saying how about not being a d-bag and standing for the flag, but for some people it require too much effort I guess. Standing for thirty seconds and putting your hand over your heart is so much exertion for your body, you know? :roll:

Hoobinator

And the simple retort to this piece of coercion which is exactly what the teacher wanted him to do, is to simply say no, I am within my rights not to stand up and I should not have my grades deducted.

You see that's where the teacher majorly fails, by using the grades as a means of punishment and thus coercing the students into doing a voluntary act. It ceases to be voluntary.

There could be a thousand and one reasons for not standing up, no one should be punished for not saluting a secular flag.

I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have the right to not salute, I'm saying he's a d-bag if he doesn't.

[QUOTE="achilles614"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

battlefront23

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying he's evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being a d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disrespect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

Next time, read my post. Specifically the part that says "for them (marines who died for you).

[QUOTE="Hoobinator"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

You're sounding like an arrogant a-hole. See I can do it too. ;) I'm saying how about not being a d-bag and standing for the flag, but for some people it require too much effort I guess. Standing for thirty seconds and putting your hand over your heart is so much exertion for your body, you know? :roll:

battlefront23

And the simple retort to this piece of coercion which is exactly what the teacher wanted him to do, is to simply say no, I am within my rights not to stand up and I should not have my grades deducted.

You see that's where the teacher majorly fails, by using the grades as a means of punishment and thus coercing the students into doing a voluntary act. It ceases to be voluntary.

There could be a thousand and one reasons for not standing up, no one should be punished for not saluting a secular flag.

I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have the right to not salute, I'm saying he's a d-bag if he doesn't.

I agree.

But he doesn't and shouldn't have to.

You can have your life saved by a cop but you still might hate cops.

I'm laying down 50 bucks that everyone here backs our military to a respectful extent.

No one here is advocating disrespecting people while being a hypocrite.

But we aren't douchebags, so we don't force people to conform to OUR beliefs. That's WHY the military exists, so we can do what we want.

-TheSecondSign-

The bigger problem here is that the teacher deducts points from the last person standing. Is this her crazy way of getting everyone to follow her beliefs?

Counter argument? He merely called me a nationalist, which I'm not. He's saying that choosing to salute for freedom's sake is nationalism which is complete and utter BS. I also like how people assumed that I said he should be forced to saluet the flaf. I never once said that. I said he should it or else he's a d-bag.

battlefront23

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I never said salutng a flag is nationalism.:| What I was stating is forcing someone to salute a flag is nationalism. You're effectively coercing the student just like the teacher to 'just do it'.

The teacher using grades as a punishment and thus changing a voluntary act into an involuntary act is nationalism.

Get your facts straight.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="achilles614"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Not really. If I gave you a delicious ice cream sundae and said you could choose to eat or not and you threw it on the ground, how do you think I would feel? The same as the marines except probbaly more for them since they died for this guy's freedom.

achilles614

How is that a bad analogy? It is disrespectful, but I'm not saying he's evil or anything. I'm just saying that it's lame that he's being a d-bag for not standing for what they fought for. Just do it for them... Enough with this stupid "they died so you could choose to disrespect them". Well yes they did. So why not respect them by standing for a salute? Sounds reasonable and not to mention incredibly easy.

Next time, read my post. Specifically the part that says "for them (marines who died for you).

But why wouldn't you stand? There's nothing to be lost and there's no real reason to not stand for freedom. I don't think you guys are understanding what I mean with all of my posts.

[QUOTE="mfacek"]

That kind of talk is inherently un-American.

Thousands of U.S. servicemen died for his right to not salute the flag, forcing him to disgraces those sacrifices.

I don't think you really understand my point, he is being FORCED to salute the flag. This goes against everything U.S. servicemen have died for.

I'll say it again....

CHOOSING to salute the flag is patriotic.

BEING FORCED TO proves absolutely nothing and is un-American.

I'm not saying if he utilized free speech to preach racism and anti-American sentiment that would "respect" America and it's fallen soldiers.

But I am saying that taking away his free speech goes against EVERYTHING they died for.

FrKnPuertoRican

I agree that he should not be forced too. It just pisses me off that he won't, just to ty and prove that he does not have to or whatever noble cause he thinks he is representing. He won't even stand up for a few moments for his country and freedom, i'm sure he has stood for much less.

Why only Marines?

mfacek

serioulsy... more soldiers and sailors have died for our right to only salute the flag and not choose not to salute it then just marines..

[QUOTE="FrKnPuertoRican"][QUOTE="mfacek"]

That kind of talk is inherently un-American.

Thousands of U.S. servicemen died for his right to not salute the flag, forcing him to disgraces those sacrifices.

I don't think you really understand my point, he is being FORCED to salute the flag. This goes against everything U.S. servicemen have died for.

I'll say it again....

CHOOSING to salute the flag is patriotic.

BEING FORCED TO proves absolutely nothing and is un-American.

I'm not saying if he utilized free speech to preach racism and anti-American sentiment that would "respect" America and it's fallen soldiers.

But I am saying that taking away his free speech goes against EVERYTHING they died for.

mfacek

I agree that he should not be forced too. It just pisses me off that he won't, just to ty and prove that he does not have to or whatever noble cause he thinks he is representing. He won't even stand up for a few moments for his country and freedom, i'm sure he has stood for much less.

I'm glad we agree being forced to is asinine. I agree that you should. Standing up and saluting the flag IS the respectfull thing to do, but the teacher completely oversteps her bounds, infringes on his rights, and disrespects every single U.S. servicemen that has ever fought for the U.S. when she forces him too.

I look at it not so much as an infringement of rights, but as a lesson for a disrespectful young lad.

I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have the right to not salute, I'm saying he's a d-bag if he doesn't.

battlefront23

Fine you're well in your rights to think that. But my point on nationalism was directed at the teacher and her use of 'coercion'. It doesn't matter if all he had to do is stand up and sit back down again, she is changing a voluntary act into an involuntary one,by punishing him.

He shouldn't be deducted points for not standing up.

Not matter how disrespectful, or ungrateful it may seem, it should not reflect on his grade at all.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Counter argument? He merely called me a nationalist, which I'm not. He's saying that choosing to salute for freedom's sake is nationalism which is complete and utter BS. I also like how people assumed that I said he should be forced to saluet the flaf. I never once said that. I said he should it or else he's a d-bag.

Hoobinator

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I never said salutng a flag is nationalism.:| What I was stating is forcing someone to salute a flag is nationalism. You're effectively coercing the student just like the teacher to 'just do it'.

The teacher using grades as a punishment and thus changing a voluntary act into an involuntary act is nationalism.

Get your facts straight.

I can't force him to and I wouldn't even if I could. I never told him "do it OR else" I just said do it. How is that nationalist to give someone a suggestion? I think you guys are assuming I'm saying something I'm not; I think he should have the right to salute or not but if he doesn't, he is, well at least I think, being a d-bag.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have the right to not salute, I'm saying he's a d-bag if he doesn't.

Hoobinator

Fine you're well in your rights to think that. But my point on nationalism was directed at the teacher and her use of 'coercion'. It doesn't matter if all he had to do is stand up and sit back down again, she is changing a voluntary act into an involuntary one,by punishing him.

I just went a lil off topic. I just get ticked when people purposefully don't salute the flag when all those men died for their freedom. But I agree that he should not be graded down; yelled at is a different story tho. :P

you were telling me to Just do it to respect the marines, you had your reason behind it but I have my reason not to stand. They died for my right not to...screw that, the fact is I have a right not to stand and the fact that the teacher is deducting points is assinine. I can show respect in my own way I don't need to stand up while some lady reads a passage to show respect.achilles614

we get it, you're different. you're rebellious. the teacher is in the wrong... but is it really worth it just to prove a point?

He shouldn't be deducted points for not standing up.

Not matter how disrespectful, or ungrateful it may seem, it should not reflect on his grade at all.

vidplayer8

My point and frankly everyone elses point in this thread down to a tee.

Also doing it for others, and use of emotion isn't exactly the most logical argument either. The TC doesn't object to getting up for others that died for the flag or whatever, he objects to being punished in an asinine manner.

I can't force him to and I wouldn't even if I could. I never told him "do it OR else" I just said do it. How is that nationalist to give someone a suggestion? I think you guys are assuming I'm saying something I'm not; I think he should have the right to salute or not but if he doesn't, he is, well at least I think, being a d-bag.

battlefront23

I understand everything that you're saying.. the thing is that you're ignoring all of my points.
Look at it this way.. and i'll go back to your cupcake analogy to make it easier for you..
You're only looking at half the equation and then reaching a conclusion based on that half.
He is not rejecting the rights that he was given, so in your analogy, he would NOT be grabbing the cupcake and tossing it on the floor.
He is accepting his right NOT to stand; he is accepting the cupcake.
Therefore, your conclusion that he is disrespecting the people who fought for his rights by not standing up for the flag does not make sense.DeeJayInphinity

If anything the TC is upholding the rights the people died for in the beginning. The right NOT to stand up, and not to be coerced into such arbitrary actions.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I can't force him to and I wouldn't even if I could. I never told him "do it OR else" I just said do it. How is that nationalist to give someone a suggestion? I think you guys are assuming I'm saying something I'm not; I think he should have the right to salute or not but if he doesn't, he is, well at least I think, being a d-bag.

DeeJayInphinity

How would he being accepting the sundae though? (It was a sundae; not a cupcake! :P) He purposefully chose not to take it when (I'll add to it) I worked really hard to make it for them, so then how would he be "accepting" it?

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"] I understand everything that you're saying.. the thing is that you're ignoring all of my points.
Look at it this way.. and i'll go back to your cupcake analogy to make it easier for you..
You're only looking at half the equation and then reaching a conclusion based on that half.
He is not rejecting the rights that he was given, so in your analogy, he would NOT be grabbing the cupcake and tossing it on the floor.
He is accepting his right NOT to stand; he is accepting the cupcake.
Therefore, your conclusion that he is disrespecting the people who fought for his rights by not standing up for the flag does not make sense.Hoobinator

If anything he is upholding the rights the people died for in the beginning. The right NOT to stand up, and not to coerced into such arbitrary actions.

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I can't force him to and I wouldn't even if I could. I never told him "do it OR else" I just said do it. How is that nationalist to give someone a suggestion? I think you guys are assuming I'm saying something I'm not; I think he should have the right to salute or not but if he doesn't, he is, well at least I think, being a d-bag.

battlefront23

How would he being accepting the sundae though? (It was a sundae; not a cupcake! :P) He purposefully chose not to take it when (I'll add to it) I worked really hard to make it for them, so then how would he be "accepting" it?

i think He is saying the cupcake is freedom and by denying to stand he is expressing freedom and thus accepting the cupcake or sundae....i am hungry now

[QUOTE="achilles614"]you were telling me to Just do it to respect the marines, you had your reason behind it but I have my reason not to stand. They died for my right not to...screw that, the fact is I have a right not to stand and the fact that the teacher is deducting points is assinine. I can show respect in my own way I don't need to stand up while some lady reads a passage to show respect.comp_atkins

we get it, you're different. you're rebellious. the teacher is in the wrong... but is it really worth it just to prove a point?

[QUOTE="vidplayer8"]

He shouldn't be deducted points for not standing up.

Not matter how disrespectful, or ungrateful it may seem, it should not reflect on his grade at all.

Hoobinator

My point and frankly everyone elses point in this thread down to a tee.

Also doing it for others, and use of emotion isn't exactly the most logical argument either. The TC doesn't object to getting up for others that died for the flag or whatever, he objects to being punished in an asinine manner.

THe military did not die for your right to not respect the flag.They died so that you could choose to, by choosing not to you are paying no tribute to them. Quit acting like a patriot when you are a traitor.FrKnPuertoRican